October 2010 Weddings
Xan921
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I need some serious advice... :(
I?ve been wanting to get some advice on this for a while now, but out of fear of what would be said, I haven?t. I seriously need some advice though and don?t want to go to my friends or family because it?s a problem I don?t want them to know about. Jason is an alcoholic and I don?t know how to handle it anymore. Before you start picturing him as some mean person who doesn?t function without booze, let me just tell you a little about him. He?s a hard working, sweet, and funny guy. He?s a big guy who will talk to our cats in the sweetest voice, he treats me like gold, and has truly been my best friend since the day we met. I love him with all of my heart and would never leave him on his own to deal with a major problem like this, but the fact is, he doesn?t think it?s a problem at all. He drinks every single day, and not just a couple of beers or mixed drinks. A few years ago he got a DUI. As part of his punishment for the DUI, he was required to take 8 weeks of AA classes and 12 weeks of alcohol education classes. Although he hated this process, I was so happy because I thought just maybe he?d learn something from his mistake. Good news is, he never ever drinks and drives anymore, bad news is, he still drinks constantly. Since our wedding, almost 6 months ago, he?s only not drank 3 days. He says he is happy with his life, he loves me more than ever, etc, but that he just likes the taste of alcohol and how it makes him feel. Well, a lot of people like the taste of alcohol and how being drunk makes you feel, but most people don?t drink in such excess. Friday evening really put me over the edge. I was asked to go out to dinner with a friend of mine but declined because it was the first Orioles game of the season, so Jason said he?d pick up subs for dinner and we?d make a fun little night out of it. I got home at 4:45pm and he was p*ss a$$ drunk after drinking an entire bottle of whiskey. He said he got our subs but forgot to tell them I didn?t want mayo on mine. He never forgets little things like that, so I know the reason there was mayo on mine was because he was drunk when he walked over to Quizno?s to get the subs. I spent a good 5 minutes just trying to get the mayo off mine so I could actually eat it. I then just lost it and went into the bedroom and cried. I pleaded with him, ?can?t you see how your drinking is hurting me? Can?t you see how it upsets me so much?? His response was, ?You?re this upset over a sub?? He didn?t understand it wasn?t the sub I was upset about, it was the fact that I spent all day looking forward to a fun night with my husband and instead I came home to a drunk who passed out shortly there after. I?ve gotten to the point where I hold my breath when I kiss him goodnight because I can?t stand the smell of alcohol on his breath. I?ve tried talking to him so many times about it, but he says he isn?t an alcoholic and that he doesn?t have a problem, then just gets mad at me and tells me to stop. I like to drink sometimes too but have even given that up several times thinking maybe it would make him not want to drink if he didn?t have a drinking buddy, but that didn?t work. Some nights he says he?ll take the night off from drinking to please me, but as soon as he thinks I?m in bed asleep, I hear the crack of a beer can open. I?m just at wits end and don?t know what to do. I love him so much and we have so much fun together, but I don?t know how to help him with a problem that he doesn?t think he has. I know there will be those of you who judge him or us because of this, but I just needed some comfort or advice so bad that I'm willing to take the chance of being judged.
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Re: I need some serious advice... :(
Wow, Xan. I'm really sorry.
The only thing I know about addiction is that if the person with the addiction is in denial, there isn't much you can do. Threats of leaving, etc only drive them to their addiction with anger and sadness so that doesn't work. I'd suggest possibly offering to take him to an AA session together, so that you can learn what it is to be a spouse of an alcoholic as well as him getting the help that he needs. If you take him to a meeting, he may begin to understand how important it is to you.
I'm sorry I don't have too much to offer. I pray that he realizes what he's doing to a wonderful woman before it goes any further.
I feel like Kearstin, I don't know what advice I have for you, but I want to give you support and hugs.
The guy I dated before I met DH I suspected was an alcoholic. I sometimes wondered if he had any idea because he treated me well managed to function for the most part, but sometimes would pass out earlier than I would like or was drunk when we arrived somewhere for an event. I wish I had some advice that I learned from that situation to give you.
I wish so much that I had a magical piece of advice for you. It takes a lot of courage to ask for advice with such an issue and I admire you for that.
Oh xan, I'm sorry you're dealing with this
Like said above if they're in denial it makes it so much harder. My friend who I love to pieces is an alcoholic (she also works at 2 bars which doesn't help). But any time we've said something to her she denies it. Sweetest person you'll ever meet, and super fun, but horribly addicted.
If I remember the rule of thumb is if you get trashed at least twice a week you're considered an alcoholic. Like you said tho, you should be able to find a support group of people in the same situation as you, and they may have better suggestions. Or perhaps counseling? If he'd be willing to go. If anything hopefully he stops for his own health, what a terrible way to treat your body.
I'm really sorry, Xan. I, like the others, wish I had really great advice to give to you, but I don't. Hopefully someone here will have some good insight for you.
Just wanted you to know we're all here to support you.
Megan & Chris
I wish I had good advice, but the other girls said what I would say - unless he wants to quit, he won't.
The only thing I can think of is trying to compromise? Like saying, "No more than 2 beers a night." I don't know....something that maybe would get him used to less and less liquor.
Or keep all the bottles that he's drank and after a month show him all the alcohol he's consumed...maybe that will make him realize how much he drinks.
*Note that these are not things I have tried, so I have no idea if they would work....I'm just trying to think of things that maybe would help :-/
Xan, I am so sorry, and we are not here to judge you.
I am going to agree with the other girls, that he needs to understand that he has a problem before it is going to get any better. I am sure that there are support groups out there that you can go to so that you an help him out and learn more about alcoholism. I think that we all know someone who is or should be considered an alcoholic by standards.
Do you buy beer/liquor for him? You could stop purchasing it for him, if you even are. I realize that he can still buy it himself but if he sees that you refuse to purchase it then maybe he will start to see the issue. Or can you keep tabs on how much he buys in a month and then sit him down and show him how much he is spending on alcohol. Or what about buying a book about having a spouse with an addiction and reading it in his presence, not out loud but just so that he sees that you are reading about it. I have never had to deal with that so I don't know if any of those things will help but it may be worth a shot.
Just know that we are all here for you and we all love you.
Xan...my heart just broke...There is no easy solution.....I feel like you might find solace in people who know what you're going through. Even if you just look at the website this will help you....see if there's a local chapter to go to
http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/
My brother is 17+ years sober this year....he made alcohol under his bed, got drunk on the way to high school....(he's 42) and it took things like getting kicked out of my parents house, losing the relationship with them (and me i was only 7 when he) for him to come to his senses.....he still struggles with it every day....but talking to someone at alanon might be helpful....let me get some more resources and you and i will chat
Love you
Getting fit for IVF!
Absolutely. There are programs like Wives of Alcoholics that allow for venting and support, etc. I'd look online to see if there are any groups in your area. I agree, if he sees you going and coming home with materials and things, he may get the hint.
Ugh, I'm just sorry that it's so out of your hands.
Oh Xan, I am so sorry you are going through and from what it seems like, have been for some time.
I agree with the other girls that it's hard to help someone when they're in denial and just can't handle the truth. Have any of your friends or family ever said anything to Jason or you about it?
I agree that seeking out a counselor could be a good place to start. Or even contacting whoever runs an AA in your area to ask for advice?
I'm sorry I don't have much else to offer, but please know that I'll pray for you both and that you're not alone. I'm most certainly not judging, just hoping that Jason will get the help he needs.
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I'm so sorry, Xan. I'd highly suggest you look into attending Al-Anon meetings - the group is specifically for people whose loved ones have issues with alcohol. I'm sure you will find many others in your exact situation who can offer you support and advice.
Has he rejected the idea of couples counseling? It may help for him to hear it from an outsiders perspective. As others have said, an addict needs to recognize that he's an addict and be willing to seek help. I'd suggest a come-to-jesus meeting with him when he hasn't been drinking. Use I statements, like, "I feel this when you do X." Be honest with him, and don't let him off the hook for any bad behaviors going forward.
If he refuses couples counseling, then consider individual counseling to help you cope, because it's got to be rough holding it all in.
I wish you the best of luck.
Xan, I'm so sorry to read this and wish I had some good advice or an easy solution for you. Jason is very lucky to have someone who wants to help him and is willing to stick by him.
I would certainly try and contact the family support group. Even if there isn't a group in your area, the website might have some great advice.
You've mentioned in the past that money is tight. What about keeping a tally of what his drinking is costing each month? Do you think that might be an eye-opener? You could compare that amount to something that he really wants (a house, a new vehicle, a king bed?).
We are always here if you need to "talk".
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TTC Since January 2011 - We have bad spermXan, I will answer honestly and from experience. DH has struggled with additiction his whole like. He was addicted to heroin for about 5-6 years when he was younger and then a few years before we met, became an alcoholic. When we met, it had died down for the most part, but about a year into our relationship things took a turn for the worse. He didn't drink every night but when he did, it was out of control. He was never mean or anything, but he usually ended up getting hurt. We would take 2-3 camping trips a year and that is when it was the worst. His friends nad his siblings thought it was hilarious. He "tackled" a grill on one trip and bruised his chest. He had a serious asthma attack and nearly passed out. He passed out and hit his head on a rock next to a river after everyone went to bed one night and woke up bleeding from his face and missing his glasses. He hit himself in the knee with the corner of an axe and I had to take him for stitches. He woulfd often "sleep walk" and try and pee in random places of our apartment or worse, at other people's houses. The worst though, was the depression and embarassment he felt for days afterward. We started arguing about it more and more and he swore it would change. I got A LOT of crap from his friends and family. After all, it was his life, his choice and I was trying to change who he was (scoffs). It finally took me telling him that I was done. That I had to make the decision for myself to be happy. That he was his own person who could make his own decision and I loved him but I would not spend my life living that way. What about when we had kids? What about when they found daddy passed out naked in our front lawn. I was done. It took a lot of screaming and crying on my part and he new he had a problem. After my final breaking point, he talked to his doctor. He was diagnosed with depression and he started seeing a therapist.
Things have been much better. he still stumbles from time to time, but we work through it together. His drinking has been under control for about 3 years. It IS hard. But he has to want to change and you have to make the best decisions for yourself.
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I'm so sorry to read that you are going through this. I think the PPs have had some great advice, and I'm not sure how much I can add. But we won't judge you for this, it took a lot of courage to post this here.
We'll be thinking of you and here to listen/read if you need it.
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This is a great idea Tisha.
When DH and I went to Engaged Encounter as required by our church to get married, we learned to write to each other because it really helped us be completely honest for the other to read. Maybe writing a letter to him would help express your feelings.
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This. Definitely try to go to a support group for spouses/family of alcoholics. DH and I did this when I was dealing with depression, and it was very helpful. Often there are people that are at different stages of the recovery process so that is helpful, but just having people going through the same thing as you is so helpful to hear as it gives you a feeling that you are not alone.
Since he is in denial perhaps you can approach the issue from another angle. Alcohol ain't cheap, so if you can have a savings goal you can use the money spent on alcohol (and something you enjoy but can sacrifice, so that it's fair and he's not the only one giving something up). Also you can approach it as a health issue. Drinking alcohol totally messes up your metabolism and makes it difficult to lose weight. Also since the weather is getting nicer perhaps you can replace his drinking time with some fun outdoors activities, like taking walks. Getting some extra exercise may give him a little bit of an endorphin buzz that can become a substitute for getting drunk buzz. Though you may want to research that as I know for heroin addictions the endorphins from exercise and sex make getting rid of the addiction harder.
I'll send good vibes your way *hug* and kudos for sticking by your man when times are rough.
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~ Karen ~
**Wedding/House/Travel Bio **
I agree. I often write letters to Chris when something is bothering me. It gives me the opportunity to get it all out and not miss anything I want to tell him. Then he has a chance to read it all, and really take it in, instead of missing pieces because he's thinking of the next thing to say, or interrupts to make a point.
Megan & Chris
I'm so sorry Xan. I'm a little late to the post, but I admire you for reaching out. I know how hard it is living with an alcoholic/addict. I would definitely take Ashley's and others advice about the Ala-non meetings. They are free and all over the country, so I'm sure you can find some in your area. These meetings are designed specifically for the families of alcoholics/addicts, so you will be surrounded by a wonderful support group that understands exactly your what you are going through.
Unfortunately, most times an addict has to hit rock bottom before they seek help. It's possible that you may need to create that bottom for him to see. Right now he is in his own world blinded by the alcohol and cannot see the pain he is causing.
I wish I had better advice for you right now. I'm here for you. FB me if you ever want to chat.
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110% agree with all of this. I used to do with with my ex because he was just hard to talk to in general, so by writing him a letter I knew that I was getting out all of my feelings and he knew what I was thinking.
I really do think it's effective. Fortunately Chris is not hard to talk to about things, but it still takes the conversation/discussion out of something and gives the reader a chance to really focus on what the writer is trying to get across.
I think in a situation like this, where I'm sure he is on the defensive the whole time when you actually talk about it, it could be a useful tool.
And I would recommend, too, leaving it there for him, rather than being around when he reads it. Then he can't stop to talk to you about it...and he'll have time to really internalize it before you get home.
Just a thought...
Megan & Chris
Same for me. I do believe in prayer & I'll pray for him & you. I hope it can help you.
I know I'm a little late to the game and you have already gotten some really good advice here, but I wanted to add what I have seen from living with an alcoholic. My father is an alcoholic, but was a very high functioning one. He wasn't a deadbeat dad by any stretch of the imagination, but he did drink constantly, which my mother hated. He learned to hide it from her (which didn't really work), by hiding vodka bottles anywhere clever he could think of.
His drinking didn't affect his job or their marriage so much, but it did affect his health. He ended up in the ER a week after my college graduation with severe pancreatis and partial liver failure. He quit cold turkey after that, although he still drinks non-alcoholic beer.
I would try to getting your DH to switch to a non-alcoholic beer instead of his usual, so he gets the taste and the familiarity he craves but without the alcohol. There are also other alcohol support groups that are not so much in the "you can never touch a drop of alcohol again" but are more about alcohol in extreme moderation.
I do recommend seeing both an individual and couples counselor so that you can find some piece of mind and methods of coping and he can learn that he does have a problem that is hurting not just himself, but those he loves. Unfortunately, you can not change him and he is not going to get help until HE realizes he has a problem. MY mother snipped at my father for drinking for over 30 years and that didn't make him stop. Only a brutal health crisis and a week in the hospital did that.
Good luck Xan. Just know we are rooting for you and I hope he seeks out the help he needs, for both your sakes. Sending nestie juju your way for sure.
I ditto a lot of the advice you have received here. Go to Al-Anon. Learn from those who are in the same boat as you on how to best handle it. Also, if you make it a priority to go regularly than he can see how important this is to you.
The only other thing I will add is to remember that while you have a level of influence with him, ultimately, this is his deal. You can't change him. You can't make him choose not to drink. You can't do it for him. He has to come to the place where he wants to stop drinking to excess. So remind yourself regularly that this is his deal and that you are simply there to support him.
And we are here to support you. So post here about it when you need to. At least we can listen and give you a place to vent.
Thank you all so much for the love, support, and advice; you have no idea how much it truly means to me and brought tears to my eyes. I will definitely look into the Al-Anon meetings, I promise. I think they'll really benefit me and maybe if he sees me going, he'll understand exactly how much alcohol is not only hurting him but is hurting me as well.
To answer a few of the questions...
I never buy alcohol for him. On average, he spends between $50-$75 a week on alcohol. Money is tight for us which is one reason I get so angry that he spends so much money on it. I've pointed out to him exactly how much he is spending and explained that we could get a bigger apartment with that extra money or go on a vacation, and at the time he says he agrees with me and understands but then later in the night goes and buys beer. Even when money is extra tight, he feels the need to at least go get a couple of the big individual cans. It puts a lot of extra stress on me financially but he doesn't seem to notice that.
I've tried writing him letters before. He'll read them but doesn't really respond to them. He'll listen to me if I talk to him face to face about it, and says that he'll work on it but still just says he doesn't have a problem and that I'm making a big deal out of nothing.
As for my family and friends noticing, my friends really notice but I don't think they know what kind of extreme it is. They see him drink 20 beers at a party or if they are over hanging out on a weekend, but they don't know he drinks 20 beers every night of the week. I'm embarrassed to really talk to them about it. Most of my family are drinkers so they don't really notice him consuming 3 beers to everyone else's 1 at a function, except my Mom. She's mentioned his drinking to me before, but I've always kind of swept it under the rug with her and never went into detail about it just because she's extremely judgmental and her and Jason have never gotten along very good to begin with.
He also has type 1 diabetes and is extremely over weight. I've cried to him before that I'm so worried I'm going to be a widow in my 20's because he's just not going to wake up one morning, but even that doesn't seem to get through to him.
Sometimes before he goes to get beer, he'll ask me if I'll hate him if he goes. Sometimes I say yes other times I say things like, "It doesn't matter what I say, youre just going to get it anyway, so why even ask me" and then sometimes I'll say "No, of course I don't hate you, I love you and want you to be with me for a long time but you aren't going to be if you keep drinking so much" Regardless of what I say, he ends up going to the liquor store.
Gosh, all of this is making him sound like some horrible person, but he's really not. He's this fun loving guy who is totally functional in every day life, and would give the shirt off his back if someone needed it. All of my friends think he's just this big sweet teddy bear kind of guy, which is he...but I guess I can't keep letting all those wonderful qualities about him make me ignore the bigger picture here. I'm not one to get easily depressed but it has just been slowly killing me the last couple of months. It's nothing new, but I feel like it's hit me all of a sudden. Maybe it's because when I was just his girlfriend or fiance, I knew if it got too bad I could just leave, but now that he is my husband, I intend and want to stand by him no matter what, the good and the bad, he's my family now...so maybe thats why it has started hurting so much more. Here's to hoping I figure it out soon.
Thanks again everyone, you all are wonderful wonderful friends.
My dad was also a functioning alcoholic. It took him being hospitalized with congestive heart failure to realize his wrongs. He stopped drinking all together for a year. Then moved to non-alcoholic drinks when the urge hit him after the first year of being scared.
Like the other girls said- he can't change unless he sees a problem. I hope and pray that he doesn't have to have a trip to the ER to realize his problem.
I agree with the other girls advice too and don't have much to add. But you know where to find me if you need to vent *hugs*
Drinking that much beer is especially bad if he has diabetes. If my dad has just 1 or 2 beers his blood sugar level is high the next day. (Side note, if he is drinking 20 beers a night he probably shouldn't quit cold turkey as that would probably be a shock to his system.) Diabetes is scary stuff, do either of you know somebody who has had complications from it? Both of my parents are borderline diabetic, my mom lost a lot of weight when the doctor told her, so she is fine she just watches her diet, but my dad has to test his blood level, and he isn't as healthy as my mom so it really worries me. It sounds like he may have a strong sense of infallibility which is really common is adolescence and young adulthood (and some never grow out of), where people think "well that won't happen to me". If I were you I'd try to make the consequences of what will happen to him more tangible. Another brainstorming idea would be to make beer his reward, like he can only have one if worked out, he can have another if he ate healthy meals all day, etc. Also, add Thank You for Arguing to your to read pile as you may learn some good persuasive techniques, for example one is to give somebody 2 options but both of them are something that you want (e.g. you want somebody to turn their music down so ask them to either turn it down or put on headphones; they feel like they had a choice in the matter and you get what you want). Keep us posted on how your efforts go as maybe we can help you brainstorm more ideas to try.
Trip to Prague & bring home furbaby when we get back
~ Karen ~
**Wedding/House/Travel Bio **
I agree that the techniques you have stated here are good ones. However, with something like alcoholism, the IP needs to be in some way shape or form ready to go into the change....with kids its a lot easier to begin behavior modification with simple choices and behavior plans like the ones you've stated....in an adult man and in her husband? he's going to feel emasculated and balk especially if the behavior modification is unsolicited.
Xan check in with al anon....and see what they recommend...they're gonna be a HUGE resource for you, see if there are spouse specific groups...maybe even a diabetic group.or weight loss group.
Just thought of this...would he join ww with you? would he see what beer/shots do to points values?
just an idea
Getting fit for IVF!
Xan, none of this makes him sound like an awful person. He just sounds like a person with an addiction.
I agree with the alanon meetings for you, and a couples counsellor for the two of you. Maybe hearing it from a stranger will encourage him to go to a meeting and admit he has an addiction.
I'm so sorry you're going through this. You must feel so ashamed and angry and terrified. I can't imagine how many other emotions you're feeling. We're all here for you, and don't judge you or your hubby. (hugs)