Philadelphia Nesties
larrysdarling
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Can we talk Penn State?
I'd like to hear thoughts about what's going on at PSU.
I'm pretty fired up about it and just got into it with a few colleagues.
IMHO, JoePa's gotta go. He was supposed to be a moral authority at that school. While he did what he was supposed to do legally, he didn't do enough. Someone needed to do something to protect those kids. They were failed from the top down.
Also, if my kid were one of those at his house last night marching in support, she'd be in a shiitload of trouble.
I guess I don't get how this is so controversial. Are we that worshipping of our sports figures that we are blind to what's right and wrong? I mean, it's alleged sexual assault and rape of young vulnerable boys.
Thoughts?
Re: Can we talk Penn State?
There is so much victim blaming going on. Makes me sick.
They are looking to replace the president of psu if he gets replaced and joepa doesn't I will be shocked.
in total agreement with you LD.... espn summed up my thoughts very well in this piece:
http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/id/7208029/penn-state-joe-paterno-failure-power
"Even now, as the heartbreaking details emerge, pages of grand jury testimony are absorbed and parsed, and a seamy picture of alleged child abuse and the subsequent failures to act comes into clear, indefensible focus, the reflex of the Penn State hierarchy involved is one of tone deafness.
That focus revolves not around the children who most needed the adults to be grown-ups but around protecting the power: the big, untouchable football program with its legendary coach with the big name and the big reputation, the do-gooder charity with the board of directors with the big names on it.
But Penn State president Graham Spanier, athletic director Tim Curley, vice president for business and finance Gary Schultz and coach Joe Paterno should be held to a higher standard. So should The Second Mile, a charity that was founded to help children. Whether or not Sandusky is convicted, each was faced with a critical choice with damning information and chose to protect the program. This is what power has become. More accurately, it is what power has always been, in existence to protect itself. "
devil's advocate opinion (i have not read the grand jury report)- i would be curious to see both how much joe pa knew and when. i would also like to see the psu code of employee conduct. more should have been done for those kids, no question. but if joe pa only knew that skeeevy dude was in the shower with a kid and had gone to the police, would a full investigation been conducted?
what is wrong with the grad assistant? if you walk in on that, and you don't think you can do anything you go to the nearest phone and call for help. seriously, you were 28 years old and you walked away from someone being raped. that to me, is much worse.
edited for formatting
Hey y'all.
Long time no see.
I did hear something interesting on the radio this morning. Apparently allegations by one of the boys' mothers were brought all the way to the DA - I think they said in '98, and the DA decided not to build a case.
So, the caller was saying, if the DA didn't prosecute in '98, what more could Paterno have done in '02? Like, the allegations had already been brought to the attention of the police and were then buried.
When you add the terrifically interesting disappearance of the DA in '05 (he was apparently finally pronounced dead this year) *disclaimer* I don't know if this was the SAME individual who buried the charges in the late nineties* you get a case that probably goes way deeper, and all the way into local government and law enforcement.
So, inasmuch as I think Paterno should have done more - if local law enforcement already knew about what was going on, what could he have done? This is not reducing my icky feelings for Paterno, as I really don't know how a human being lives day in and day out with this knowledge while the abuse continues to go on around him, but what more should he have done? Gone straight to the Press? To the Governor? Does this go all the way UP to the Governor?
It's going to be a long and icky unwinding and I'm wondering if the Feds won't be involved soon.
Yeah that's right my name's Yauch!
Fire him?
sandusky had retired in '99 and as part of his retirement package still had a parking pass, office on campus, and access to the football facilities. at that point, it would have been up to the university to revoke those perks. i would think at that point Joe Pa would have said "keep that guy the heck outta my facilities" and it would have been done. it wouldn't have changed the investigation aspect (or lack thereof) though.
I read the grand jury report this morning - sickening. After listening to the news reports and reading the investigation, in my eyes there is a long list of people who deserve some of the blame for allowing this to go on for so long. JoePa is on that list, and I think he needs to go.
My heart goes out to those boys and their families.
Not flaming, but I am kinda amazed that you will even go this year.
Yeah that's right my name's Yauch!
It's very simple.
All this "legal vs. moral" responsibility talk.
As a HUMAN BEING, you are responsible to call the authorities when you're told a child was attacked by an adult.
All this "what did he know/not know" talk. We know at the very least he know a 60 yo man was in a shower with a 10 yo boy. See the first part. As a HUMAN BEING, not a coach, not a director of police service, not a university president, you need to be an advocate for that child.
I've lost all faith in people that this is even up for discussion. There is no grey area.
To even think otherwise is insensitive and disgusting.
I fully agree with this. I don't see how he could have turned the other cheek. I don't care what his reasoning was. Everyone who knew this was going on or even had heard allegations of this going on and did nothing is just as disgusting at Sandusky.
I am 100% with you, LD, on all of your points. I also agree with the rest of you. I think the entire thing is just sickening and you cannot tell me that with how close JoePa and Sandusky worked together (30 some years, right?!) that JoePa had no idea that Sandusky was a child molester. I have 0 respect for him as a person and I absolutely feel in my heart that JoePa knew what was going on and was either covering it up or didn't have the brass ones to speak up about it and escalate the situation.
My manager is a die hard PSU fan (to the point where it is sickening in itself) and he keeps defending JoePa like no other. It makes me absolutely sick.
I agree 100%. To me, there is no 'devil's advocate'.
I just keep thinking about these poor kids and their parents. How do you equivocate if you were the one answering to them? How can any of them look these kids in the eyes and say they did everything they could to protect them?
Everyone involved failed these kids.
To think, their inaction led to more boys being attacked. Their lives forever ruined. I'm shaky just typing this. Makes me crazy.
I can't believe that there is even debate about this. Even people here on this board. To read (mostly on FB) alum say "let the process happen before calling for heads" and alum and students try to make excuses for Joe Pa, saying he's a good guy, etc. WHAT DOES IT MATTER? He, they, all of these students/alum even are putting a football program ahead of the wellbeing of innocent children.
Absolutely shameful.
Absofreakinglutely!!! WHO THE F WALKS IN AND WITNESSES A 10 YEAR OLD BOY IN THE SHOWER WITH A 60 YEAR OLD MAN AND JUST WALKS OUT AND DOES NOTHING?!?!?! (Yes, I'm screaming.)
If I were a dude and could "take" him... I would have beaten the p!ss out of him right then and there in the shower, grabbed the boy and then headed right for the police. How as a human being can you live knowing and SEEING what happened and you did NOTHING?!?!
And to think this grad assistant was a gigantic former football player. He surely could have stopped this physically. I think about this all the time.
i'm sorry, i'm just seeing this. Are you serious? No, seriously???
Agreed.
Um, I would like to see if being complicit in the rape of a little boy is in the code of conduct.
I'm gonna go ahead and guess that it's not.
Sorry, ering.
yes, because i would like to see if people can be fired or if people will need to be forced to resign. it is for the legal basis of what the university can do.
Exactly! I know for a fact that if I was him and walked in on that, I would be beating the crap out of him. You can mark my word on that one.
And honestly, seeing the school's code of ethic? At this point, F the school's code of ethic. How about the freaking code of ethic for the respect of another human being... especially KIDS!
Yea, to that I say who cares what the rules say.
It's time we start thinking less like "penn state" and more like humans.
As far as the grad assistant goes, I look at it from a slightly different perspective.
Yes, he should have called law enforcement. 100%
But walking in on something like that shocks your system. I'm sure he could barely comprehend what he was seeing. I would imagine he was shaken to his core.
And don't forget, the person who was committing these acts was supposedly an extremely highly regarded person not only in the PSU football program but the entire state.
I think that grad assistant probably felt like people wouldn't believe him. It's similar to why victims of sexual assault don't come forward.
I can not even understand how anyone who had any inkling of what was happening allowed it to continue. Some of these kids were 8, 9, 10 years old. How do you sleep with yourself after turning a blind eye to that. It is disgusting.
Interesting. Wouldn't be shocking now, would it?
i agree.
Unfortunately I can't say it would be.
I can't even. My head is going to explode.