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Female friend too close for comfort?
My boyfriend has this female friend of his that from day 1, has rubbed me the wrong way. She has never done *outrageously* obvious things to undermine my relationship but rather she has made quite a number of comments that has irritated me over the last 2.5 years my BF and I have been dating. On the list are things like:
1. the day I met her, she said hello for about 2 minutes and then cornered my boyfriend in a secluded part of the bar to discuss her relationship problems for 3+ hours.
2. she has called him her best friend (she has a live in boyfriend of her own)
3. she invited my boyfriend to a concert that her boyfriend didnt want to attend (you wouldnt suggest selling them to us? instead you want to go on a date with *my* boyfriend?)
4. she made valentines day cupcakes for her boyfriend...and then when she had extra, sought out my boyfriend on valentines day to give him the rest.
5. she has said that in her wedding, I would have to be a bridesmaid because my boyfriend couldnt be in her wedding party because hes a guy and I would have to be his "proxy"
5. on the same valentine's day as the cupcake incident, when her boyfriend didnt make plans for them, she asked if they could come with us on our date.
6. she has said to me in conversation "well you know him better than me in *that* respect..." (ummm ALL respects, thanks.)
She is a sore subject for us because of all these issues I dont like her. I recently tried to be really honest and a true friend to her and tell her how I felt so we could address it and move on, and she was taken aback and a little hurt that I wasnt honest with her but acted as if we were fine. (She later told my boyfriend she was annoyed with me because she thinks I was a bad friend...another way she undermines my relationship: she thinks she is going to trash talk me to my boyfriend and he wont tell me? that she and him have a closer relationship than him and i?) She and I havent spoken in a few weeks and Im perfectly fine with that, she was only drama in my life that I didnt need. She still speaks with my boyfriend on a pretty regular basis and usually do not mention me.
My problem is, my boyfriend insists that regardless of what she does, I should ignore it because he loves me and we are in the relationship together not her. But clearly she is under the impression that he and her have a closer relationship than him and I and it bugs me to no end that she even thinks that way, nevermind the fact that its simply not true. Things she does make me uncomfortable and my boyfriend think that if he deems it "nothing" than I shouldnt be concerned, but I think that simply because I am his girlfriend and I am uncomfortable, he should make some kind of boundary. (to be fair, she recently said that she might have an oscar's party and he told me and said that if she invited him...and she and i were not on speaking terms by then...that he would say he couldnt go unless she were talking to me. which made me feel really good)
Has anyone ever had one of these? Who is right?
Re: Female friend too close for comfort?
You sound young. Really young.
Not one of those things you listed is a problem other than her ridiculous notion that men can't be members of a bridal party.
"That chick wins at Penises, for sure." -- Fenton
This exactly. They are friends, most of those seemed like perfectly normal things that friends do (except for inviting herself on your date).
Maybe I don't have a heightened sense of smell, but I've never smelled any vagina on my pants. -- TSD
Bloggity Blog - You know you want to...
I am not sure if this is a "Who is right?" situation. The fact that you ask that question is a clear statement about you and how you handle conflict.
I am a person who has long-term male friendships. I am a careful opposite gender friend and I am very transparent with my partner and the partners of my friends.
But you are not comfortable with this friend and you haven't been from the beginning. You aren't going to look upon anything she does in a favorable light. She could be Mother Theresa and you would still have a problem with her.
Let's go though your list:
1.) BF problem. She was polite to you and then pigeonholed your bf. If he was a good date, he would have extracted himself from her and returned to you.
2.) He *is* her best friend. Not everyone feels that their romantic partner should fill the roll of best friend.
3.) As her best friend, when she had a spare ticket to a concert, she invited him. She is not required to sell the tickets to both of you. If your BF didn't want to go, he should say no. Again, she isn't your problem, your boyfriend is.
4.) Unless the cupcakes said "I love you with all of my heart", they were just extra cupcakes. If she brought a bunch, I am assuming that she wasn't expecting him to eat them all himself. Since you know about them, did he bring them home and share them with you?
5.) And your answer can be "No thank you, I don't want to be a proxy in your wedding. We will just come and dance the night away!"
5.) Again, you can say "No thanks, we would rather be alone on Valentine's Day. I am sure you understand."
6.) You do know him better in some respects and she may know him better in others. There is a certain body of knowledge that comes from knowing someone for years. That comment wasn't an insult, it was an acknowledgement of your primacy in his life.
Your examples are not strong ones of her intruding on your relationship or of her having designs on your boyfriend. If those are the best ones you can come up with (the Valentine's examples are almost a year old), my opinion is that you are too sensitive and are not comfortable with your boyfriend having a close female friend. If that is the case, you need to be honest with yourself and your BF. It sounds as if you want him to cut her out of his life.
Personally, I have watched guy friends drop any friend with a set of ovaries when they get a new girl and then -- lo and behold -- they are back in a couple of months to a year sheepishly apologizing for giving into the psycho-chick who wanted to run their lives completely.
The problem is with the boyfriend, not with the friend. A lot of the things you mentioned would not bother me at all, like giving him cupcakes or asking to double date on V Day. The bigger issue is that it makes you uncomfortable and your boyfriend's solution is for you to get over it, rather than anything that would require him to do something.
So I'd say it's half you being unreasonably jealous and half him being inattentive to your needs.
Or he's screwing her, likes the attention and you just chose bad examples.
ETA: and at a just dating phase there are a lot of things your bf's friends or family know about him better than you. H*ll there are still things DH's best friend knows about him better than me!
I appreciate you writing back a little bit more than a biting comment or two.
I have no problem him having female friends...i have male friends. I agree a big problem is him setting boundaries. And a lot of this is stuff that I deem is not okay in my relationship (and my boyfriend and I tend to be very much on the same page about this stuff) but you all may feel is okay on your relationships.
For example, you may be okay with your SO having an opposite sex *best friend* (and yes I know it sounds so third grade, and maybe it is) but if your SO is not your best friend, and this other person is, why dont you date them? My boyfriend (and hopefully one day husband) thats why in wedding vows they say "forsaking all others"...they dont say "fosaking all others but that doesnt count with opposite sex best friends" Moral of the story: I want the person I am dating to be my best friend and I his. (for the record, you ask my boyfriend who his best friend is, he says me and even some male friends and another female friend from a long time ago...this girl never comes up.)
Also, he never went to the concert, because her boyfriend decided to go. Again, I dont really go on date-like scenarios with opposite sex people and I dont expect that of my boyfriend. He would not forbid me from going to something like this, but I simply dont do things that would even make him question me for a second.
Cupcakes: I'm sorry but she brought them to work. Just give them to your coworkers. why do you have to find someone meaningful in your life to give them to if they are "just cupcakes". again, I may be old fashioned but when another woman gives baked goods to my man, i raise an eyebrow. BTW, he never to accept said cupcakes.
I disagree about her comment about me knowing him better in that respect. She was not acknowledging my primacy; she was asserting her primacy in his life. "you know him better than me in *that* respect", meaning she knows him better than me in others. i highly doubt that. when you live with someone and youve with them on an intimate level through tough situations...i think that transcends all levels of a casual friendship only 1.5 years longer than said relationship.
Again, I have no problem with him having her as a friend. I have no problem with them hanging out every so often. I have no problem with them chatting. I have big problems with another woman thinking she and my boyfriend are tighter than me and my boyfriend. even if its all in her head. hasnt anyone seen "obsession"? (its one of those terrible but GREAT movies)
"The meek shall inherit the earth" isn't about children. It's about deer. We're all going to get messed the fuckup by a bunch of cloned super-deer.- samfish2bcrab
Sometimes I wonder if scientists have never seen a sci-fi movie before. "Oh yes, let's create a super species of deer. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG." I wonder if State Farm offers a Zombie Deer Attack policy. -CaliopeSpidrman
You're sounding crazy here. He can be her best friend without her being his best friend. YOU don't get to decide who she trusts most and feels closest to - SHE does.
And as far as why not date if you're best friends, there's a lot more to a relationship than being friends. There's attraction, shared goals and values (not necessary with a close friend), and a certain indefinable something that you know when you feel. Haven't you ever had a close male friend that you thought was great, and not ugly or anything, but you just didn't like him in THAT way? If not, maybe your boyfriend should be looking a little sideways at your male friends.
The cupcakes thing is just nuts, completely nuts. Cupcakes aren't metaphorical boobs or anything. I can't even imagine where you're coming from here, it's so insane.
Bottom line is, you're uneasy about her, and you're grasping at straws for a reason to chide her and cut her out of your boyfriend's life. No wonder he's blowing off your concerns. I don't see this going well in the long term. More than likely, you're going to drive him away with your irrational jealousy, which actually wouldn't be such a bad thing. At least then you'd be free to date other men, and for heaven's sake, just STOP dating a guy at the beginning when you see that he has a close friend who makes you uncomfortable.
Why does he want to be friends with her if this is causing so much drama? I mean, is she THAT awesome?
MH isn't a jealous guy. But, I had one friend I used to date long distance for a short time over 10 yrs ago. He and I evolved into just a friendship. MH didn't like it. He said he couldn't put his finger on it but he said it's the one person that just really gets to him. I took that information and I was like, ok, this is baseless, but it's one person, and it's just not that important to fight over. So, I just lessened and lessened contact with him until we've basically just become FB acquaintences. MH's feelings were stronger than my need to be close to this person. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
I just don't understand why if she's presenting such an issue, if you don't do this with every female he comes in contact with and if he's telling you everything she says and does, why she's so important to be "friends" with.
My boyfriend is highly uncomfortable with conflict (something we are working out) whereas I am of the school of though that its better to get everything out on the table, deal, resolve and move on. That being said, the idea of him taking the initiative and saying "hey dont do that" isnt something high on his list.
I agree I can be too jealous...I have high expectations of my relationship. I ask no more than what I give my partner: and part of that is unfailing loyalty. I am asking for unfailing loyalty and he is just now starting to get that whole idea.
I put it to him this way: a mutual (male) friend of ours was talking to me about my boyfriend's lack of professional motivation. this is something that also irritates me. Did I take the opportunity to have a royal *** sesh? not at all. I defended my guy through and through, saying that it was thoughtful but really not much of his concern, and he would move on to something more challenging in his own time. my boyfriend LOVED this response and loved my backing him up. I want him to back me up too.
Like I said he is just starting to, with telling her that he cant attend her party without me (and without her and I getting along) I really do admit I had loads of hangups about what she's done in the past, and wanted to just be upfront about how they made me feel and so we could be better friends.As I read your post, I was trying to put myself in your shoes for each of the scenarios you wrote out. I was swaying back and forth a little.
But then I got to this:
But clearly she is under the impression that he and her have a closer relationship than him and I and it bugs me to no end that she even thinks that way, nevermind the fact that its simply not true.
And in your update, you say it again. If THIS is your problem, what she "thinks", I say "so what?!". You, nor your BF, can dictate what she THINKS.
Your BF says you are his best friend? Then again, SO WHAT what she thinks? HE thinks you're his BF. Why does it matter if she considers him her BF?
You sound really, really territorial.
And I didnt' realize that giving a guy cupcakes was some old fashioned sign of... of... what, even? And LOL at "my man".
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
You really need to get a bigger picture grasp on this whole thing.
You sound very jealous. Have you had problems with trust in the past?
And, you are going to push him away with this. It is coming off obsessive, this laundry list of little things that irritate you. If we are getting this impression, he for sure is. And it is going to exhaust him.
ahh you brought up a very good point. around 6 months into dating, i asked him how he felt about her, if he was ever attracted to her, and if anything happened (because I was getting a needy, hes my back up boyfriend vibe from the girl) He insisted no multiple times. I found out later from friends of our that he did like her (never got details on what happened other than the general idea that he liked her and nothing happened)
Ya'll probably think I am apeshit and wont believe me, but I would have been more understanding if he hadnt lied to me. Lying to me (even to protect my feelings...or his ass) is a big problem to me. My trust in him (especially regarding this girl) was shaken for a long long time. He lied to me on other occasions about her because he knew it would cause more issues...lying begot hysteria begot lying begot hysteria....and so on.
actually now, 2.5 years into dating him, living with him, building a house and albeit a canine family with him, our relationship is now better than ever. i truly believe he does not lie to me about seeing her or talking to her, and in turn he tells me things that sometimes i dont want to hear but refrain from hysteria and just listen. part of me i suppose wanted validation from women who might have been through something like this.
So what you're REALLY saying is, you don't want Ross and Rachel hanging around together. This is reasonable. You should have said that in the first place instead of all that cupcake craziness.
ed: I just can't get over how different this story is from your original post. So he has this friend that he used to like and you suspect still kinda does, and he had a habit of lying about her to you, and now you want her gone. Duuude. Just get rid of the guy. There's no reason to start building a future on such a shaky foundation.
Emily didnt last when she didnt want Ross and Rachel hanging out together. and who ended up together in the end?? R&R.
I know it may sound dumb, but in my heart I really believe my boyfriend is a good man (although sometimes misguided, but hey i obviously have issues too) and I'm simply not prepared to walk away from my otherwise great life with him and our two dogs over something that shouldnt be such a big deal.
I already started to let the BS go with her personally (not talking obviously helps) but if we start to be "friends" again, I will surely heed the advice of the forum and continue to let whatever nonsense she says go. Although quite frankly if we never spoke again, I wouldnt be crushed.
"That chick wins at Penises, for sure." -- Fenton
He may be a good man. I am not evaluating that for you. I don't have the information to say he's a jerk.
But, he has a history of lying to you. That's not good. And you may say you trust him, but you don't. Your posts here have proven that the trust issues in the past are currently affecting your relationship.
I really appreciate your helpful and encouraging words.
No, its not a healthy quality, and if you have time we can go over exactly why I'm co-dependent and not trusting and all sorts uncomfortable stuff about my life that has been way harder than most people's lives. But that will probably make you feel like crap and make this a pity party and I'm really not about that. I'm really just trying to recover and be semi normal. How I tried to go about doing that was opening myself up to a female dominated forum and asked advice and thoughts about something I am going through in my life, looking for some understanding and guidance. I was met with some real snotty doozies and some other more warm and welcoming responses.
Guess where your responses fell.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
Lolz! This is adding to my original response of "you sound young". I've been through so much! All we need now is for you to throw in a "I'm very mature for my age" with a side of "you don't know my life!" for this to be complete.
I can pretty much guarantee that I won't feel like crap over how hard your life has been. Just because you think you have reasons for why you're co-dependent don't excuse your co-depedency.
"That chick wins at Penises, for sure." -- Fenton
Number one, the fact that you think you have been through more than most people is laughable and shows your young age. You have no idea what other people's lives are like. To assume yours is the worst is just beyond words to me.
And no, none of us would pity you.
But her comments were not snotty. They may not have been what you wanted to hear. But most of us sitting here are seeing that your behavior and your emotions about this situation are not healthy and are going to lead the the end of your relationship. You really need to think about that to go forward as a healthy individual.
I have been down the codependent road. It's not a good place.
I am not EXCUSING my "codependency" (are you truly qualified to give that sort of diagnosis? i doubt it.) but I was hoping for a little more understanding, thats all. I think that if you took a second to know slightly more about me, youd realize, a) i am not a bad person b) ive been hurt and its caused scars (just like anyone else) and if you went through anything in life at all, you'd at leats give people the benefit of the doubt that, thought you may not know it, they are fighting a harder battle than you are.
I am a new yorker born and bred and EVEN I am not that cynical.