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Because it needs to be said
Half of the posts to the girl with the dachshund yesterday were smug, judgey, at times nasty and absolutely 100% counterproductive. Look around and see how many regulars there are left on this board. Now ask yourselves why. I have been here a damn long time and this has always been an issue, but the point to which it has devolved makes me seriously disappointed.
All of us were naive and uneducated owners at some point, when you automatically assume the worst of someone and treat them accordingly, it reflects on you and not on them. I hope people will make a conscious decision to turn this board around but until then I'll continue to be a half lurker. A local rescuer posted something in his blog the other day that absolutely hit home with me and which I believe to be very relevant and true:
"Rescue is about caring for the less fortunate of man's companion animals, those that we as a species have failed. Rescue is not about obtaining a pure bred dog at a fraction of the price asked and paid by breeders and buyers. It's not about taking in a dog and then dumping it again when your personal life changes. It's not about adopting a dog and then returning it when you find a "defect" like it was a new TV. It's not about making yourself feel good, self-righteous, proud, or smug about what a good thing you've done. It's about helping an animal who needs help."
Doing animal rescue does not make you better than anyone else. It doesn't give you the right to judge someone else. When we lose the opportunity to educate someone and improve the life of their animal through education, all while touting our animal rescue efforts, it makes us hypocrites and it means we are letting an animal down.
"...Saving just one pet won't change the world...but, surely, the world will change for that one pet..."
Re: Because it needs to be said
Life and Love at #16 | our married life blog
Well said and I applaud you for standing up and speaking out. I'm generally just simply absent from those types of posts, even though I'm thinking what you just wrote. I should stand up more.
We have a great opportunity on this board to educate people, and just as we are doing our best for the cause in doing what we can for the animals, we should do our best in the education department too.
I liken it to PETA in my mind. They are so extreme the majority of the time that they turn people off to the cause all together, which is such a shame. I once posted in a different place on the interwebz and was accused of drinking the PETA Koolaid. Apparently that women has decided all people arguing for the best for animals must be a part of the extremists. I think when people go to extremes, they just make people stop listening all together.
If we scare everyone away form the pets board, no one will have the opportunity of learning the great things that I myself have learned here. Sure I want to smack some of these people too, but it gets us nowhere.
Same here. Also, by the time I saw this particular post it was already 3 pages long. But I'm going to make more of an effort to sway the tone of posts like that towards education vs. condemnation.
Ditto.
Here's the thing...and I say this all the while agreeing with everything you said.
This is what always happens. Someone posts something. Someone gets flamed. Someone says, "we shouldn't flame people". People agree. Someone new posts. Someone gets flamed. Someone says, "we should flame people". People agree. Someone new posts. Someone gets flamed. Someone says, "we shouldn't flame people". People agree. Someone new posts....I think y'all get where I'm going with this.
I know I wasn't 100% helpful yesterday, and I apologized in the post for being snotty. However, I'm not going to continue to feel bad about it considering I think everyone has an off day now and again. And yes, there is a difference between having an off day and saying something snotty and consistently getting into arguments with every new poster. But, just like you're not going to shame people into adopting, you also aren't going to shame them into being nice to people. I can only control my responses, not anyone else's. Yesterday, my responses weren't awesome. Next time it'll be better.
Anyway, I predict that we will be having this same discussion in about three or four months. And I'm not even psychic, y'all!
Snow!
<a href="http://www.thenest.com/?utm_source=ticker&utm_medium=HTML&utm_campaign=tickers" title="Home DAro has a good point, as usual
I hope we continue to call posters out on ridiculous/irresponsible behavior, but I wish we could get rid of some of the general purposeless nastiness. Also, I will forever cringe when the "don't ever have kids!!1!!" comments show up.
ARO, I don't remember what you said yesterday, but I think that your posts are usually great. The right amount of helpful advice mixed with some WTF are you thinking.
I imagine kellbell is referring more to the "I'm sorry for your husbands and future children" type comments. And if she's not, that's at least what I was referring to
)
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
I realize that much of the nastiness is out of frustration of seeing the same crap over and over again and not feeling like we get through. The truth is that you have no idea who is lurking and who you are getting through to.
I have been on the board since the very beginning and too many years to count. I lurked for a long time, learning tons along the way. When I did finally post with a question or an issue, it was treated respectfully. If I felt beat up, I sure as hell wouldn't keep coming back to continue to learn.
It frustrating when the point and solutions get lost as does the teaching.
Are there times when the BSCs show up and don't realize we have a memory? Sure, but in general, mutual respect should prevail. It is how I communicate in face-to-face meetings and that doesn't change because of the anonymity of the internet.
I'll continue to lurk and chime in when needed.
Yeah, the don't ever have kids one makes me crazy. Also the "would you rehome your kids??!!!" makes my eye twitch.
Snow!
<a href="http://www.thenest.com/?utm_source=ticker&utm_medium=HTML&utm_campaign=tickers" title="Home DI'm just feeling a little guilty because I know I was b!tchy yesterday. lol
My only excuse is that I'm a week away from finals and I'm exhausted. And the feral cats are killing me. Two of them at the shelter have URIs now. We're talking about possibly getting them into foster homes so they can get well. The humane society said that they can be in a house with other cats as long as they're kept separate. My vet said absolutely do not do that, and especially don't bring them home with my cats, who are already stressballs, which lower the immune systems in the first place. So now I'm waiting to see if fostering is ok, and then trying to find fosters. And I feel like it's my fault they're even sick in the first place--they were healthy at the d@mn bridge!
End rant. Sorry for hijacking what is a very good OP.
Snow!
<a href="http://www.thenest.com/?utm_source=ticker&utm_medium=HTML&utm_campaign=tickers" title="Home DThank you this post.
While I'm a lurker on this board, I'm an active member of a dog forum.
I thought the dog forum had some judgey people, but this forum seems to be much worse.
I just get the vibe that if you're not a regular or doing rescue or the utmost exert on pets, you aren't welcome.
While I hate to see the "re-homing" posts and would like to give them a piece of my mind....I just move on. But even worse are the posts with general questions....just keep in mind that not everyone is a knowledgeable owner and it would be better to provide constructive advice and have those folks stick around and learn....rather than be nasty and scare them away.
Good for you KB.
While I didn't come across the particular post mentioned until it was already 3 pages long, and therefore I could add absolutely nothing to it, I was certainly giving major side-eye to the OPs first several posts, but started to become more understand as the discussion evolved and more information came out.
People get overwhelmed and think/do stupid things. Sure, by all means, call them out and say, "yo! you're being stupid! stop and think a minute for these reasons!" But she definitely responded far better when people were trying to give constructive advice vs when people were just beating her down and making her feel guilty that she didn't think/act like they do.
Everyone is raised and approaches life differently. Not everyone is open to those differences, I know, so snark and nastiness comes out. But educating people and helping them work through a problem is a far better way to get them around to your way of thinking or seeing things than hurling insults.
We're all guilty of it at some point; come on, no one can be nice 100% of the time since we're only human and have our own emotional attachments to things that influence our reactions.
B/w 1/8: betas 17,345, progesterone 25.6
You haven't met my mother. She cannot be mean. Ever. It is SOOO annoying, which sounds weird, but seriously, it gets annoying.
:-P
I'm sorry you've gotten that vibe. I like to think it's not true. There are quite a few regulars who've gotten their pets from reputable breeders. There are also many regulars who are not involved in rescue.
While it's great if you are, there's nothing wrong with NOT being involved.
I don't post here anymore: I did read that post. It upset me. I was going to say something, but she had already said she wasn't going to read.
I am 5 days away from being homeless because I REFUSE to give up my dogs. For the older people here, you know how much a pain in the ass they are. Never for a second have I thought of giving them up. I have had many people tell me it would be easier to find a place without them. But I made a commitment to them- at the time I had no idea I my husband would die, I would work 80+ hours a week, and become homeless because no one rents to someone with dogs, but a commitment none the less.
If that makes me seem self whatever- so be it.
Same here... I few came back the other day for a random posting spree, and it was fun! I wish the "regulars" would come back!
and Wow. I didn't get involved in this post - I don't know if I didn't see it, notice it, or just ignored it. But wow - I just read the replies etc. and I agree with you. I'm glad you posted this and hope it puts some things in perspective for others.
As for me, I know I can get snippy. But If I can't say something nice or don't know how to help the person I try to stay out...Key work is try.
I agree completely and also wanted to say that the thing that irks me most is when people throw out the "My circumstance is so much worse and I would never get rid of my dog, look at all these things on my plate and I manage to have 7849357923 animals!"
Sometimes things don't work out, sometimes people don't make the best choices, sometimes people aren't educated, but there's no reason to be mean to someone just because they aren't making the same choices as you. I think education is key to helping people make better decisions in the now and in the future.
I am having a very difficult time as most of you know in my own situation. I wish I could come to this board for support rather than expect flames.
From the bit I know about your situation, I don't think anyone would flame you - not even here.
::hugs, doglove :: I've been thinking about you. I hope whatever happens you can work out a solution that is best for everyone.
I will also agree that as a former regular, I no longer feel comfortable posting about anything that isn't puppies and rainbows for fear that I'll get flamed or that it will be held against me months or years later. Although, in fairness, that's the way of the nest and not exclusive to Pets, I suppose.
To be honest, I don't have that much sympathy for careless people like the daschund girl, and I usually just skip over those threads, but I have seen some people in genuinely difficult or complex situations receive flames instead of advice where some sympathy might have been warranted.
Oh well, as ARO said, this post isn't going to change anything, but I do respect kellbell and the other posters here who try to educate people.
"The hardest thing is to live richly in the present without letting it be tainted out of fear for the future or regret for the past." - Sylvia Plath
I think its very different if you give it the old college try. But if you don't try because of a little damn pee, seriously you deserve the flames. I had people on this board tell me to give one of my dogs back to the rescue after behaviorist didn't help. I picked not to, life would be easier, but if I had, at least I had tried instead of getting frustrated with a bit of pee (which one of my dogs still has an issue with) and deciding to give up.
If you need help you know where to find us. I'd be happy to help look for apartments or anything else. I sincerely hope you know that despite everything there is a huge group of us rooting for you and supporting you, we ALWAYS have been. We will always back you up if you need it.
Well said. By the time I see one of those posts, it's usually spiraled out of control and I don't feel like I have anything to contribute.
Aro is right about everyone jumping on the flaming bandwagon, though.
Thanks. Honestly we have tons of people looking. For every house there are at least 5 applicants- we are even applying for places we haven't seen. Every time they will pick the person without dogs before us, so even if its billed as pet friendly. My mom is against apartments and the ones that accept dogs aren't safe. The amount of foreclosures in our area doubled in the last month- and its causing more renters than there were to begin with.
This is honestly the second worst experience of my life. It just keeps getting worse. I hope soon it changes because really, being homeless has got to be the bottom for me.
I'm sure I must have written a post last year that said something along the lines of being in over my head. No one ever attacked me for adopting two puppies. They just offered lots of advice & suggestions. If they did, I probably deserved it. Looking back, it was a pretty foolish thing to do, but I made it work. And here I am, still posting.
It really depends on the OP. Are they really looking for help (like I was/am) or looking for validation/an excuse?
Exactly this. Many of us "old regulars" think about you and your pups. I sincerely hope that you find a good place that will take your dogs as well. We're here for you, we just don't know how to help right now. (((hugs))