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Nightmare, dogs may have killed a neighbor's dog
Two of my dogs (a great dane and a great dane mix) got out of the fence today, and the neighbors let their little yorkie out like they always do. When they went to let the yorkie in, they found her dead (throat torn open) and our dogs outside. They don't have a fence but we do, and we haven't had a problem with the dogs getting out. We even have locks on the gate but somehow they got it up off the hinges.
I checked both dogs for signs of who may have done it (I definitely don't want a dangerous dog on my hands) and I can see no signs of any fight at all. The neighbor didn't see it happen but we still want to pay the vet bills (I think it's too late...) and other expenses just because it's the right thing to do. Legally I don't think they can win since they didn't see it, can't prove it was our dog, and their dog was loose, too, but we don't want to fight it at all. These are good neighbors and good people and we need to do the right thing. But I seriously see no blood in the dogs' mouths, on their fur around the mouth (they both have gray muzzles), on their feet, or anywhere. We were inside and heard no barking or anything at all. I know it's a small dog but wouldn't we see some signs a few minutes later? There are lots of other dogs that roam free in our neighborhood and we just don't do that, so this is so distressing. They are both canine good citizens, one is even therapy dog international certified, and I've never seen them be anything but sweet to other dogs, including that one. I do know that packs, even just two, can do things we wouldn't normally expect, which is one reason we're so careful. I just can't stop crying!
Edited just to say I wiped both dogs head to foot with baby wipes and all that came off is dirt. It's just so bizarre there's no blood if they did "tear the throat out". I could understand if they'd shaken the poor dog, which actually would be how I'd think it would have happened. I'm not even sure my dogs' mouths aren't too big for the throat actually. Oh God this is so horrible. My poor neighbors! Any insight at all?
I checked both dogs for signs of who may have done it (I definitely don't want a dangerous dog on my hands) and I can see no signs of any fight at all. The neighbor didn't see it happen but we still want to pay the vet bills (I think it's too late...) and other expenses just because it's the right thing to do. Legally I don't think they can win since they didn't see it, can't prove it was our dog, and their dog was loose, too, but we don't want to fight it at all. These are good neighbors and good people and we need to do the right thing. But I seriously see no blood in the dogs' mouths, on their fur around the mouth (they both have gray muzzles), on their feet, or anywhere. We were inside and heard no barking or anything at all. I know it's a small dog but wouldn't we see some signs a few minutes later? There are lots of other dogs that roam free in our neighborhood and we just don't do that, so this is so distressing. They are both canine good citizens, one is even therapy dog international certified, and I've never seen them be anything but sweet to other dogs, including that one. I do know that packs, even just two, can do things we wouldn't normally expect, which is one reason we're so careful. I just can't stop crying!
Edited just to say I wiped both dogs head to foot with baby wipes and all that came off is dirt. It's just so bizarre there's no blood if they did "tear the throat out". I could understand if they'd shaken the poor dog, which actually would be how I'd think it would have happened. I'm not even sure my dogs' mouths aren't too big for the throat actually. Oh God this is so horrible. My poor neighbors! Any insight at all?
TTC since January 2007 -Dx Stage IV endo - 1 removed tube
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Re: Nightmare, dogs may have killed a neighbor's dog
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I totally understand wanting to know for sure...I would likely feel the same way in your situation. I hope you're able to get some sort of closure, but FWIW from the info you've posted my gut feeling is that its more likely than not that your dogs didn't do it.
Same. From the info you shared, it does not sound like either of your dogs did it.
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Oy. I'm sorry the daughter had to go and say that to you, but again...even if the mom did see your dogs standing over the body, that's NOT proof. They very easily could have come upon the yorkie and gone to investigate. Hopefully you and your neighbor are able to talk when she's ready and the daughter cools down soon.
It's more the what the heck do I do about my own dogs question I'm thinking about. If I knew that they viciously attacked the dog, I'd put them to sleep. Honestly, that sounds terrible, but that's what I'd do on paper anyway. I have a toddler and I've always been a responsible pet owner and I just don't have the time or effort for intense behavioral therapy/training for the dogs. They're "well trained" already and as I said both CGCs and one was a therapy dog. They're both older (going on 9, old for Danes, and one has cancer and recently had a slow-growing tumor removed), and I just can't see us doing the long route at this stage, and rehoming isn't going to happen with aggression. But I don't want to kill my dogs without knowing they did it either. I don't feel right about the way the daughter is reacting, and I also worry about how life will be like next to them if she doesn't calm down withe time. I'm hoping her behavior is a function of how recent this was. This so sucks.
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What an awful situation. But it really doesn't sound like either of your dogs did it. I don't understand why they or you are assuming that when lots of other dogs roam free in the neighborhood. Anyway, wouldn't a great Dane jaw do more than just tear the throat of a small dog? Did they ask you to pay the bill, or did you offer? I would wait until you talk to them some more before you pay it.
ETA: After reading your followup, I wouldn't deal with the daughter any further. Only talk to the mom.
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I'm so sorry you are going through this. I completely understand all your emotions. I'm sure I would have the same.
I hate to say this, but jumping in and paying the vet bills without any sort of investigation looks bad. Even if you put something on the check it's almost.. IDK back-peddling? I understand you were in the moment, when you said you would. I just don't think any amount of wording that this is a sign of being a good neighbor is going to make them think anything other than your dogs did this horrible thing.
Your dogs being out looks very suspicious. I have to wonder if the dogs react to the dog being killed and that is why they escaped?
Do they do an autopsy on something like this? For my own piece of mine I would request one done (at your expense) so you can acutely deal with this situation. Like you I would not want a dog like that in my home, but would not want to put down a dog unnecessarily.
If they were just in the wrong place at wrong time, then it would save both your dogs and your relationship with your neighbor.
I posted here, did the baby wipe thing and updated, daughter came over and gave me the vet bill and said some things including the changing story, and left. I have every intention of paying the bills even if there's no way to prove my dogs did it, but I really need to talk to the mom again to find out exactly what happened. She's a nice honest person and I will believe it if I hear it from her. I am actually afraid the daughter may retaliate, possibly hurt my dogs, based on her crazed attitude earlier. I do understand how distraught she must be though so I'm hoping it's the temporary shock of it bringing out the worst.
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They must be feeling guilty in allowing so small a dog loose where other dogs roam. Accusing your dog is a way to avoid accepting their own responsibility.
I'm so sorry.
Wow, I'm sorry both you and your neighbor are dealing with this. What a horrible situation for everyone. I have a few thoughts (in no particular order):
1. Legally, I think they're going to be hard-pressed to sue you if that's a concern. They weren't watching their dog, they don't have a fence, even if they saw your dog over their dead dog that means what? That your dogs were interested in something? That hardly proves that your dogs killed theirs.
2. I think it's really nice you offered to pay the vet bills and is a very neighborly thing to do. Maybe it might look "suspicious" and if you were going to do anything, I'd probably write them a letter to give sympathies and indicate that you are in no way admitting that your dogs killed theirs. I'd probably see how the mother is before you plan on anything though. Everyone is probably very emotional right now so I wouldn't let what the daughter says get to you.
3. Moving forward and knowing that your dogs can get out of the gate, I would not leave them outside unattended. You're concerned about retaliation from the daughter plus the last thing you want is for your dogs to have a bad reputation especially when you've worked really hard to make sure they're good dogs (as evidenced by the CGC and TDI).
4. Unfortunately for your neighbors, this is why we tell people to supervise their dogs outside. They should ALWAYS be supervised with an unfenced yard. This probably sounds incredibly harsh and I am so sorry they're dealing with this, but when you have an unfenced yard and roaming neighborhood dogs, this is a risk you take when you're not watching your dog. That goes triple if their dog was off their property when it was killed.
5. Even if your dogs did this, please remember they are not bad dogs or even dangerous dogs. They may be large dogs that should not be around small dogs, or even other dogs period, but dog aggression does not equal human aggression. If you do think yours did this you could take them in for a vet visit to ensure they're not feeling ill but honestly, it sounds like you have good dogs. They were good dogs before and they're still good dogs.
I hope you and your neighbor can come to an understanding and move on amicably. It really is unfortunate for everyone involved.
Wait a few days until you can have a reasonable conversation with the mother. Once her emotions are settled she might realize that her daughter put assumptions in her head. How old is this daughter? Regardless, the mother is the owner and really the only person you should speak with.
I think your dogs were in the wrong place at the wrong time. We have coyotes in our neighborhood who leave behind signs that they caught a bunny or bird, and my dog and smell that a mile away and pulls her leash to go sniff. Something about dead things is attractive, I know this is totally morbid but what I've noticed, and maybe your dogs are the same way. PP touched on this, that maybe your dogs Houdini-ed out when they sensed this happening.
Never leave your dogs unattended outside for all the reasons previously mentioned.
I hate to say this, but it sounds like this was a longtime coming with all the loose dogs. I wouldn't be surprised if that border collie was involved or if there are more fights than you even know about. It sounds like animal control needs to spend more time in your neighborhood.
Im sorry you are going through this. Stay strong.
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I wish you luck with the situation and I honestly think it sounds most likely that they didn't do it and were out there because of the scent of what had already happened like PPs said.
Keep us posted.
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I would start documenting everything Fred. I don't think your dogs did it.
I know you SAID you would pay for their dog..but...I think that may be a mistake here.
::hugs:::
Also, I'd get those baby wipes out of the trash and document that no blood was on them.
No. Even though the OP didn't find blood on her dogs, it's very likely that the dogs would have gone over to sniff a dead dog, smelling both "dog" smell and blood in the area.
OP, I'm so sorry, but based on the limited information I have, this is what I think:
I do not think the neighbor's daughter will retaliate. People handle stress and hurt/anger/sadness differently, and she needed to lash out at the perceived culprit. I think she will calm down shortly. It's a pretty big leap to think that her anger and grief over her dog will lead to harming your dogs. Unless she's very unstable and has actually shown signs of doing so in the past.
Dog aggression is NOT the same as human aggression. Dogs are never 100% safe, but you sound like a good dog owner who supervises her dogs and child. Even IF you dogs were responsible (which is a big "if") that means nothing about interacting with your daughter. Do not worry about aggression for now.
I would see if you can have an autopsy of the yorkie and "prove" anything. I would also call your vet and see if they have any advice re: paying and "admitting" guilt.
40/112
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I'm so sorry this happened
Just wanted to reiterate one more time that dog aggression =/= human aggression. Even IF your dogs did this, they are still the same dogs who have always been just fine with your family and your child.
I feel so awful this happened. DH was sure not to admit guilt, although we will pay their vet bills and cremation, etc, even though it may be bad from a.liability standpoint; it will just feel right to us. IDK if our dogs did it ot not and I guess I'll never know. I don't feel less safe with my daughter but I dread going home and seeing my neighbors every night. I haven't been sleeping and I fear my autoimmune disorder which has been in remission for years, is flaring up. Thanks all for the support. I know I don't post over here much but I've always agreed pretty strongly with your ideals of responsible pet ownership and I feel like such a failure. I failed to keep my dogs safely in the fence and now they are, at least, suspected of something unthinkable.
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I hate this. I HATE it with everything inside me. I haven't felt so awful since the day we found out our daughter would be going to live with relatives and we were losing her (thank God that didn't happen after all). I don't know what I would think if I were reading this. I might judge me harshly, flame me, etc. Flame me if you need to; I can't possibly feel any worse. I've been a member of the Nest/the Bump for a long time now and consider it more than a group of strangers, and I'd like to remain a member of it. Right now, honestly, it's my best distraction. I'm just trying not to wallow in it, but if you see me post elsewhere, please don't think I'm cold or whatever. I'm just trying to go through the motions. And if you have any kind words or thoughts for me, I could definitely use them! Also spare some hopes for peace for my neighbors because right now I just can't.
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I'm not going to "flame" you, because, really, what good would it do? But I think it was a terrible decision. You let yourself get bullied into putting down two dogs who may or may not have even done anything wrong. That is insane.
If AC didn't have the space to accommodate your dogs, they should have allowed you to quarantine them in your home. That's not an uncommon option.
Also, while I feel bad for the neighbors dog, your neighbor is a complete *** for blaming your dogs when no one saw anything. You know who is responsible for her dog's death? HER. She shouldn't have let her dog out unsupervised. Yours being outside of the fence was an accident. Hers wandering the neighborhood was stupidity on her part.
The whole situation is disgusting.
ETA: And I am sorry about your dogs.
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<a href="http://www.thenest.com/?utm_source=ticker&utm_medium=HTML&utm_campaign=tickers" title="Home DI'm not a very emotional person and this made me cry.
I'm so sorry for your loss.