Obesity rate may be worse than we think

barefoot barista

I have nothing to add other than that I'm 5 foot 6, and I wear a bikini at 150. I looked awesome-no lumps or bumps, and my arms were sick.

brideymcbriderson

copzgirl:

This whole post just reminded me, that I got crazy news at my NP at my last check up.

I always defer having my weight taken (head/sand) and she is fine with that, now apparently they are going to a computer system that won't let them proceed with anything if vitals including weight aren't filled in.

I swear her assistant said something about federal guidelines...is this right? 

I believe this would be referring federal guidelines re: electronic medical records.  The idea is to be more efficient.  My guess is that whatever program the office is using to comply with this requires weight to be entered.  I could be wrong - there's always a first time - but I don't think there are any federal regulations requiring your doctor to weigh you.

cookiemdough

barefoot barista:

I have nothing to add other than that I'm 5 foot 6, and I wear a bikini at 150. I looked awesome-no lumps or bumps, and my arms were sick.

You are in denial! 

MommaG123

tartaruga:

I actually agree with you. I don't think there's any evidence that doctors *aren't* making these judgment calls (like my H's doctor did, for example). I think that it's rare that someone who truly doesn't need to lose weight is being told by their doctor "your BMI is too high, you need to lose weight". I think it's a lot more frequent that people are taking it upon themselves to say "well BMI doesn't apply to me because of my frame".

ETA actually my H's doctor said he should probably lose 10ish pounds anyway, even though he's in great shape, because he said that kind of weight isn't good for your joints, even if it's muscle instead of fat.

I think the main problem with BMI is that in general it works for most people but there will always be outliers.  So, like you said, it needs to be one of many tools used.   They should use other indicators of health as well and tailor it to each person rather than just saying "hey you look fat, lose weight" or "hey, your BMI is high, lose weight".

LaPiscine

cookiemdough:

LaPiscine:

tartaruga:

I'll also say that I don't have a problem with the BMI standards changing if theres evidence to support it. Medical guidelines aren't designed to make you feel good about yourself, they are (supposed to be) based on scientific and medical evidence about what is healthiest. If the evidence shows that I ought to be 60 pounds lighter than what I am, well that sucks for me and I may never achieve my healthiest weight, but it's not science's fault. I should still try to get as close as I can. And yes, BMI is supposed to be a guideline, not an end all be all. My H for example, is considered obese by the BMi calculator but he's clearly not - he's very athletic and muscular so it doesn't really apply. No biggie - his doctor can see this and just uses his judgement to say "well your BMI is high but your body type is different so I'm not concerned as long as you're eating healthy." it's no big deal. Doctors should be advising their patients using BMI as a *tool* not as the one and only piece of information. Just like exercise and food guidelines - yes we should all strive for eating tons of fruits and veggies and exercising daily, but if you can't, you should still try to do it as much as you can.

the science is not the problem. Our society and our lifestyle is the problem.

And let me just keep digging myself into this hole because I think this is what most doctors are doing.  I think they are looking at a patient and they can see that the patient needs to lose weight.  If a doctor says, "You look overweight.  I can see that you are fat," they will be accused of focusing on the aesthetics of obesity.  Especially if it's a female patient, that patient will tell her friends that the doctor told her she was fat and ugly.  So doctors explain the patient's weight to them in terms of a BMI.  "Look, your BMI is too high."  This is supposed to make it less personal, less offensive.  But instead, you get the kind of hyper-rationalizing that takes place in this thread where people with a BMI of 32 are saying, "I'm just big boned.  My doctor shouldn't be relying on BMI anyway because it's notoriously unreliable and it should be just one of many tools."  Yeah, the other tool is his eyes.  But patients wouldn't like that discussion any better.  

If you are visibly overweight, I don't really think people would balk at a doctor telling them about their weight.  As I mentioned earlier, I think there would be much more push back from someone who was not visibly overweight who was then called obese based on bmi and everything else seemed healthy, I think they would likely get the side-eye. That being said, I am sure there are people who are not aware of their weight and that may think they are thin when they aren't but for most I would think they are aware of their weight, society imo doesn't really coddle fat people. 

I don't think people can tell when they're overweight.  If you're 300 pounds, okay, yeah, you probably know you have some weight to lose.  But what if you're 160?  Chances are, you are overweight.  I mean we've seen people go absolutely ape-sh!t over the idea that 5'6" 150 might make you overweight.  But it probably does.  That's one of the problems.  If the average woman is a size 14, and you're measuring yourself against "the average" (which most of us do), don't you kind of lose sight of what the "healthy" size is?  I think a lot of people do.  And don't even touch the issue of pediatric obesity. People have NO idea when their kids are fat.  I think there have been a ton of studies on that phenomenon.   

 

tartaruga

I'm not saying there's no choice - there obviously is. There are obviously people who do succeed in losing weight or in maintaining a healthy weight, many people. But my point still stands that our society sets us up to fail. And its an uphill battle to fight against it, a battle that millions of people are losing. When a full third of our country is unable to maintain a healthy weight, maybe the problem is not just about choices.

hawkeye+

copzgirl:

This whole post just reminded me, that I got crazy news at my NP at my last check up.

I always defer having my weight taken (head/sand) and she is fine with that, now apparently they are going to a computer system that won't let them proceed with anything if vitals including weight aren't filled in.

I swear her assistant said something about federal guidelines...is this right? 

Wait. So I'm a giant meanie, fat shamer because I don't think we should just continue to supersize our whole society to accomodate our expanding asses, but you aren't even willing to let your doctor weigh you? Knowledge is power, no?

ECUPirate04

mysticporter:

Of course BMI doesn't give a complete picture of health, any more than the Dow gives a complete picture of the stock market.  People as a rule aren't built to handle nuance:  they want a simple number answer (a few categories dumbed down categories, even better!), and that's what BMI is.  For that reason and that reason alone, I think BMI is a useful starting point.

Of course, there will be people who can have an "overweight" BMI and still be quite healthy, either because they are healthy despite having some extra fat or because their frame and/or muscular build pushes them over.  I don't think that's a reason to chuck out BMI altogether, and I completely don't get the "But that would make me overweight/obese!" reaction.  If you understand the limitations of BMI, what do you care where you get classified?

The first reason that popped into my head is life and health insurance.  You pay more for being classified as overweight and definitely more for obese.

I'm classified as overweight yet I'm in great shape.  Not perfect shape but great shape and continuing to improve.

My life insurance company doesn't care because according to my BMI I'm overweight therefore I pay more.

LaPiscine

copzgirl:

This whole post just reminded me, that I got crazy news at my NP at my last check up.

I always defer having my weight taken (head/sand) and she is fine with that, now apparently they are going to a computer system that won't let them proceed with anything if vitals including weight aren't filled in.

I swear her assistant said something about federal guidelines...is this right? 

I think the federal guidelines have to do with electronic medical records, not with recording a weight, but I could be wrong.  And seriously, with the amount of privacy invasion that Obama seems to be okay with, I wouldn't be surprised if he was monitoring all of our weights. 

_Fenton

For reference, 5'4" and 150 lbs. I'm not vain, but this is not obese.

 Size 8. VANITY SIZING!!!!

copzgirl

hawkeye+:

copzgirl:

This whole post just reminded me, that I got crazy news at my NP at my last check up.

I always defer having my weight taken (head/sand) and she is fine with that, now apparently they are going to a computer system that won't let them proceed with anything if vitals including weight aren't filled in.

I swear her assistant said something about federal guidelines...is this right? 

Wait. So I'm a giant meanie, fat shamer because I don't think we should just continue to supersize our whole society to accomodate our expanding asses, but you aren't even willing to let your doctor weigh you? Knowledge is power, no?

I assure you it is my own hang up.   

MommaG123

LaPiscine:

I don't think people can tell when they're overweight.  If you're 300 pounds, okay, yeah, you probably know you have some weight to lose.  But what if you're 160?  Chances are, you are overweight.  I mean we've seen people go absolutely ape-sh!t over the idea that 5'6" 150 might make you overweight.  But it probably does.  That's one of the problems.  

Not to be nitpicky but they were getting fired up about being 5'6" 150 and classified as obese not overweight.  5'6" and 150 is probably overweight in at least half of the instances.

Otherwise I completely agree society as a whole has a completely altered view of what overweight is, or more accurately most are in denial of what overweight is. 

larrysdarling

tartaruga:

I'm not saying there's no choice - there obviously is. There are obviously people who do succeed in losing weight or in maintaining a healthy weight, many people. But my point still stands that our society sets us up to fail. And its an uphill battle to fight against it, a battle that millions of people are losing. When a full third of our country is unable to maintain a healthy weight, maybe the problem is not just about choices.

I think the way to fix it as a society is to prevent obesity in the first place. It's gotta start when kids are young. Losing weight as adults is too hard. I think gaining large amounts of weight change your body too much to the point that it doesn't want to let go. That's kind of 'all of us are doomed until the next generation' but I sort of think that's the only way to fix this.

imoan

LaPiscine:

I don't think people can tell when they're overweight.  If you're 300 pounds, okay, yeah, you probably know you have some weight to lose.  But what if you're 160? 

Yeah... because women every day, who are a healthy weight, look in the mirror and don't see a giant whale and TRULY believe that their body is absolutely repulsive.

What world do you live in? 

cookiemdough

LaPiscine:

I don't think people can tell when they're overweight.  If you're 300 pounds, okay, yeah, you probably know you have some weight to lose.  But what if you're 160?  Chances are, you are overweight.  I mean we've seen people go absolutely ape-sh!t over the idea that 5'6" 150 might make you overweight.  But it probably does.  That's one of the problems.  If the average woman is a size 14, and you're measuring yourself against "the average" (which most of us do), don't you kind of lose sight of what the "healthy" size is?  I think a lot of people do.  And don't even touch the issue of pediatric obesity. People have NO idea when their kids are fat.  I think there have been a ton of studies on that phenomenon.   

 

Well just to clarify I acknowledged that 5'6" 150 may be overweight : ), but yes I do disagree it is obese or that we should lower the BMI to call it obese which I thought was originally being floated in the OP.  I am not obese, but I can clearly see that I am overweight and never balked at my doctor telling me so, even during pregnancy. 

The kids thing scares me.  Mostly because childhood is probably one of the few times in life people dependably go to the doctor for wellness visits and usually part of that visit is to discuss where you are on the growth scale. The fact that people are ignoring that or not getting the right info is disturbing.  I think there are also so many old wives tales, like "oh that is baby fat" "they will grow out of it", etc. that many parents don't know if they are doing more harm to the self-esteem by addressing it.  

hindsight's_a_biotch

IDK, I definately have a shitton of control over what my kids eat and they go to public school.

LaPiscine

ECUPirate04:

mysticporter:

Of course BMI doesn't give a complete picture of health, any more than the Dow gives a complete picture of the stock market.  People as a rule aren't built to handle nuance:  they want a simple number answer (a few categories dumbed down categories, even better!), and that's what BMI is.  For that reason and that reason alone, I think BMI is a useful starting point.

Of course, there will be people who can have an "overweight" BMI and still be quite healthy, either because they are healthy despite having some extra fat or because their frame and/or muscular build pushes them over.  I don't think that's a reason to chuck out BMI altogether, and I completely don't get the "But that would make me overweight/obese!" reaction.  If you understand the limitations of BMI, what do you care where you get classified?

The first reason that popped into my head is life and health insurance.  You pay more for being classified as overweight and definitely more for obese.

I'm classified as overweight yet I'm in great shape.  Not perfect shape but great shape and continuing to improve.

My life insurance company doesn't care because according to my BMI I'm overweight therefore I pay more.

Life insurance is not "health insurance" and we need to be careful conflating the two.  My life insurance is ridiculously high.  Why?  Because I've been rock climbing.  Three times.  In Wisconsin.  

This is not a good example of anything other than the fact that the whole life insurance industry is set up to charge you a shitload and never pay anything. 

LaPiscine

imoan:

LaPiscine:

I don't think people can tell when they're overweight.  If you're 300 pounds, okay, yeah, you probably know you have some weight to lose.  But what if you're 160? 

Yeah... because women every day, who are a healthy weight, look in the mirror and don't see a giant whale and TRULY believe that their body is absolutely repulsive.

What world do you live in? 

This one.

http://healthland.time.com/2011/03/08/did-your-doctor-call-you-fat-you-should-thank-her-for-it/

 

tartaruga

larrysdarling:

tartaruga:

I'm not saying there's no choice - there obviously is. There are obviously people who do succeed in losing weight or in maintaining a healthy weight, many people. But my point still stands that our society sets us up to fail. And its an uphill battle to fight against it, a battle that millions of people are losing. When a full third of our country is unable to maintain a healthy weight, maybe the problem is not just about choices.

I think the way to fix it as a society is to prevent obesity in the first place. It's gotta start when kids are young. Losing weight as adults is too hard. I think gaining large amounts of weight change your body too much to the point that it doesn't want to let go. That's kind of 'all of us are doomed until the next generation' but I sort of think that's the only way to fix this.

I agree. Which is why I think school nutrition and physical activity in school (NOT PE classes, which I think are miserable for most kids honestly, but free play and activity of their choice) are so incredibly important. Addiction to sugar and those tastes starts early and lasts a lifetime. And really, by middle school, it's too late. It has to start with small kids.

ECUPirate04

LaPiscine:

ECUPirate04:

mysticporter:

Of course BMI doesn't give a complete picture of health, any more than the Dow gives a complete picture of the stock market.  People as a rule aren't built to handle nuance:  they want a simple number answer (a few categories dumbed down categories, even better!), and that's what BMI is.  For that reason and that reason alone, I think BMI is a useful starting point.

Of course, there will be people who can have an "overweight" BMI and still be quite healthy, either because they are healthy despite having some extra fat or because their frame and/or muscular build pushes them over.  I don't think that's a reason to chuck out BMI altogether, and I completely don't get the "But that would make me overweight/obese!" reaction.  If you understand the limitations of BMI, what do you care where you get classified?

The first reason that popped into my head is life and health insurance.  You pay more for being classified as overweight and definitely more for obese.

I'm classified as overweight yet I'm in great shape.  Not perfect shape but great shape and continuing to improve.

My life insurance company doesn't care because according to my BMI I'm overweight therefore I pay more.

Life insurance is not "health insurance" and we need to be careful conflating the two.  My life insurance is ridiculously high.  Why?  Because I've been rock climbing.  Three times.  In Wisconsin.  

This is not a good example of anything other than the fact that the whole life insurance industry is set up to charge you a shitload and never pay anything. 

I know life insurance isn't health insurance which is why I said life and health.  I've got both and work in the industry so I 110% know the difference.

In both instances, they consider your BMI when calculating rates among other things such as rock climbing like you mentioned.

My point was, if the obesity numbers were lowered and 5'6'' 150 lbs became obese that would screw a lot of people.

LaPiscine

Mare0527:

LaPiscine:

I don't think people can tell when they're overweight.  If you're 300 pounds, okay, yeah, you probably know you have some weight to lose.  But what if you're 160?  Chances are, you are overweight.  I mean we've seen people go absolutely ape-sh!t over the idea that 5'6" 150 might make you overweight.  But it probably does.  That's one of the problems.  

Not to be nitpicky but they were getting fired up about being 5'6" 150 and classified as obese not overweight.  5'6" and 150 is probably overweight in at least half of the instances.

Otherwise I completely agree society as a whole has a completely altered view of what overweight is, or more accurately most are in denial of what overweight is. 

Actually, that's an important distinction.  Yeah, not obese, but probably overweight.   

LaurierGirl28

Mare0527:

LaPiscine:

I don't think people can tell when they're overweight.  If you're 300 pounds, okay, yeah, you probably know you have some weight to lose.  But what if you're 160?  Chances are, you are overweight.  I mean we've seen people go absolutely ape-sh!t over the idea that 5'6" 150 might make you overweight.  But it probably does.  That's one of the problems.  

Not to be nitpicky but they were getting fired up about being 5'6" 150 and classified as obese not overweight.  5'6" and 150 is probably overweight in at least half of the instances.

Otherwise I completely agree society as a whole has a completely altered view of what overweight is, or more accurately most are in denial of what overweight is. 

Obese might be a stretch at that weight. I think we all agree on that. But that is definitely overweight. I know myself having been that exact height/weight that my trainer & GP said I still had 10lbs to go.

I think we have such an altered view of what 'normal' is now, hence why we all go "but I cant POSSIBLY be overweight!!"

30 years ago the average weight for women was 140lbs. Now its 164lbs; with the average height being 5'5".

So we're 25lbs heaver in 30 years. Of course we all think we're 'normal' when we probably aren't.

Totally anecdotal story: at 5'6" and 155 lbs, a lot of people would argue with me when I said I had 15lbs to lose (again, using a GP and a trainer). I honestly felt like people were trying to sabotage my weight loss.

 

 

copzgirl

For all my preaching and KNOWING that I am not overweight or obese and for all of my self empowerment this post has managed to make me feel like a POS..this is how easy it is to tear someone down folks.

 

mysticporter

LaPiscine:

ECUPirate04:

mysticporter:

Of course BMI doesn't give a complete picture of health, any more than the Dow gives a complete picture of the stock market.  People as a rule aren't built to handle nuance:  they want a simple number answer (a few categories dumbed down categories, even better!), and that's what BMI is.  For that reason and that reason alone, I think BMI is a useful starting point.

Of course, there will be people who can have an "overweight" BMI and still be quite healthy, either because they are healthy despite having some extra fat or because their frame and/or muscular build pushes them over.  I don't think that's a reason to chuck out BMI altogether, and I completely don't get the "But that would make me overweight/obese!" reaction.  If you understand the limitations of BMI, what do you care where you get classified?

The first reason that popped into my head is life and health insurance.  You pay more for being classified as overweight and definitely more for obese.

I'm classified as overweight yet I'm in great shape.  Not perfect shape but great shape and continuing to improve.

My life insurance company doesn't care because according to my BMI I'm overweight therefore I pay more.

Life insurance is not "health insurance" and we need to be careful conflating the two.  My life insurance is ridiculously high.  Why?  Because I've been rock climbing.  Three times.  In Wisconsin.  

This is not a good example of anything other than the fact that the whole life insurance industry is set up to charge you a shitload and never pay anything. 

Life insurance rates are also not solely based on BMI, particularly if you are in the overweight class vs. obese.  It also takes into account cholesterol, blood pressure, etc.

hindsight's_a_biotch

I think most people do know when they are fat.

But I agree with sbp that most people don't know when their kids are fat. But I'd guess they don't know that their kids are unhealthy either.

There is so much fuucked up with parenting right now but that's a whole 'nother post and pretty mommywarrish so we can save that for later . . . or never.

Eddy1

mysticporter:

 If you understand the limitations of BMI, what do you care where you get classified?

Well mostly just because I don't want to be labeled something I am not. Why can't we find a system that takes more than just height and weight into account as our indicator of who falls into obesity or normal ranges.

Right now I can see my online chart and it says I am overweight according to BMI. That irritates me that I have that label because I know it isn't true. Until I pointed out to my MW that although I had that label I actually am very active with weight lifting she was going to put me on a very restrictive weight gain goal for my pregnancy. After looking at the facts she realized the label was wrong and now I am able to go about gaining like my body wants to during pregnancy. I don't want to be under restrictions if I don't have to be.

Nerdicorns

LaPiscine:

I don't think people can tell when they're overweight.  If you're 300 pounds, okay, yeah, you probably know you have some weight to lose.  But what if you're 160?  Chances are, you are overweight.  I mean we've seen people go absolutely ape-sh!t over the idea that 5'6" 150 might make you overweight.  But it probably does.  That's one of the problems.  If the average woman is a size 14, and you're measuring yourself against "the average" (which most of us do), don't you kind of lose sight of what the "healthy" size is?  I think a lot of people do.  And don't even touch the issue of pediatric obesity. People have NO idea when their kids are fat.  I think there have been a ton of studies on that phenomenon.   

 This is possibly one of the absolute dumbest, most ignorant things I've read in a whole month. I've never met a single fat person who wasn't well friggin aware they were fat. Society treats overweight people very poorly... especially overweight women, since society also still has a huge problem as viewing women as being public property/sex objects. 

Arbitrarily throwing a number out as being "probably overweight" without any context (height, frame, body type, athletic level) is so incredibly ignorant at best and really harmful at worst.

 

MommaG123

copzgirl:

For all my preaching and KNOWING that I am not overweight or obese and for all of my self empowerment this post has managed to make me feel like a POS..this is how easy it is to tear someone down folks.

 

I hear ya. I was looking at pictures from when I was still in the process of losing baby weight and I was 5'6" and 150 because I was going to post that it wasn't obese... but then I was looking at them and I was like yeah I actually was pretty overweight at that point even though at the time I didn't feel that bad about myself.  

larrysdarling

LaPiscine:

cookiemdough:

LaPiscine:

tartaruga:

I'll also say that I don't have a problem with the BMI standards changing if theres evidence to support it. Medical guidelines aren't designed to make you feel good about yourself, they are (supposed to be) based on scientific and medical evidence about what is healthiest. If the evidence shows that I ought to be 60 pounds lighter than what I am, well that sucks for me and I may never achieve my healthiest weight, but it's not science's fault. I should still try to get as close as I can. And yes, BMI is supposed to be a guideline, not an end all be all. My H for example, is considered obese by the BMi calculator but he's clearly not - he's very athletic and muscular so it doesn't really apply. No biggie - his doctor can see this and just uses his judgement to say "well your BMI is high but your body type is different so I'm not concerned as long as you're eating healthy." it's no big deal. Doctors should be advising their patients using BMI as a *tool* not as the one and only piece of information. Just like exercise and food guidelines - yes we should all strive for eating tons of fruits and veggies and exercising daily, but if you can't, you should still try to do it as much as you can.

the science is not the problem. Our society and our lifestyle is the problem.

And let me just keep digging myself into this hole because I think this is what most doctors are doing.  I think they are looking at a patient and they can see that the patient needs to lose weight.  If a doctor says, "You look overweight.  I can see that you are fat," they will be accused of focusing on the aesthetics of obesity.  Especially if it's a female patient, that patient will tell her friends that the doctor told her she was fat and ugly.  So doctors explain the patient's weight to them in terms of a BMI.  "Look, your BMI is too high."  This is supposed to make it less personal, less offensive.  But instead, you get the kind of hyper-rationalizing that takes place in this thread where people with a BMI of 32 are saying, "I'm just big boned.  My doctor shouldn't be relying on BMI anyway because it's notoriously unreliable and it should be just one of many tools."  Yeah, the other tool is his eyes.  But patients wouldn't like that discussion any better.  

If you are visibly overweight, I don't really think people would balk at a doctor telling them about their weight.  As I mentioned earlier, I think there would be much more push back from someone who was not visibly overweight who was then called obese based on bmi and everything else seemed healthy, I think they would likely get the side-eye. That being said, I am sure there are people who are not aware of their weight and that may think they are thin when they aren't but for most I would think they are aware of their weight, society imo doesn't really coddle fat people. 

I don't think people can tell when they're overweight.  If you're 300 pounds, okay, yeah, you probably know you have some weight to lose.  But what if you're 160?  Chances are, you are overweight.  I mean we've seen people go absolutely ape-sh!t over the idea that 5'6" 150 might make you overweight.  But it probably does.  That's one of the problems.  If the average woman is a size 14, and you're measuring yourself against "the average" (which most of us do), don't you kind of lose sight of what the "healthy" size is?  I think a lot of people do.  And don't even touch the issue of pediatric obesity. People have NO idea when their kids are fat.  I think there have been a ton of studies on that phenomenon.   

 

I'll give you this 100%. I went in for a yearly physical back in December when I was still nursing my daughter. I was almost at 1 year post partum and I knew I was likely carrying around 10 lbs of pregnancy weight that I couldn't get off for the life of me. That put me at about 165 at 5'6" ish.

I was really surprised when my doctor told me that I needed to lose 10 lbs. Like hurt surprised. In my head I was all, "But but but I just had a baby (a year ago) and I'm nursing and I'm working and I'm trying and it won't come off." But she was totally right and I started making immediate changes.

I was very fortunate that those 10 lbs came off very quickly once I weaned. I'm at my pp weight but I want to lose about 5 more. But I can see how there's some sort of protective mechanism inside us that insulates us from seeing these things.

imoan

copzgirl:

For all my preaching and KNOWING that I am not overweight or obese and for all of my self empowerment this post has managed to make me feel like a POS..this is how easy it is to tear someone down folks.

 

Yep.  I have the girls on TIP constantly yelling at me that I'm not in any way, shape or form fat.  Even the girls on ML once got in on it.  I struggle every.day not to see that 220 lb girl I was about 8 years back when I look in the mirror.

And then I come here and learn that I'm a repulsive lumpy bag of Crisco.

And then TIP will wonder why my elation over being in a jeans size I was in high school was short-lived.

But no... fat people don't know they're fat.