Sex & Romance
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Re: A guy who needs some female advice and perspective
For your kids.
[bangs head on desk]
I strongly suggest you get a counselor of your own and tell the counselor exactly what type of behavior your cold fish DIB wife is exhibiting.
I will bet you the federal deficit that he or she will tell you none of what she is doing is healthy and that your marriage dynamic is shot to hell.
I will repeat myself:
Better you cut your losses and go and file and remove the horrible dysfunctionality from your home; 16 years, you say? Would it make you feel any better if I tell you that within those 16 years you have a much better chance of meeting somebody who appreciates you in every way and thinks you're hot as hell...and that by the time Year 16 rolls around, you'll still be very happily married to her?
Don't you want to be with a woman who wants to be with you in every way?
I speak from experience myself. I came from one of those homes where things were not kosher and healthy between my parents. Even now --- years and years later --- the memories still linger on and they are not happy ones. Let's put it this way: my mother didn't appreciate my dad.
Your wife is not a good example for your 2 girls. I do not like her attitude toward sex and I do not like the fact she treats you like you do not matter at all. No way in hell would I want my kids to be exposed to something like that. As I said, this is harmful to your kids and bad in every way.
And I am wondering why she even married you -- or anybody, for that matter. This may sound like ugly news but perhaps she only got married for the security and a couple of kids. You'd be surprised how many women have that modus operandi when they marry their spouse.
What your wife needs to do:
Sh!t or get off the bowl.
She owes it to you to be honest and if she does not wish to stay married, she needs to tell you. She's played enough games and cried wolf too many times with her verbal promisory notes and sex IOUs and her other little one act plays.
I'm dying to know if she was sexually active before she met you. That must have been a real trip for the gentlemen involved.:(
"That's a question that I've been asking for a while now. And honestly I don't know, I don't see anything positive that I get, except for the once or twice a month in bed."
Wait a minute......so you see nothing positive about your relationship except for the getting laid part when it happens? Then why are you holding on so tight. If the woman has nothing positive to offer you BUT sex then that, along with the no sex, should have you running in the other direction. If the only reasons you are with her are "for the kids" and for the once/twice per month sex then your marriage is over. I don't think increased sex is going to improve it at this point.
"I'll ask if we can do it that night, she'll say yes, but she comes to bed, turns the lights off, gets in bed, faces the other way, wearing all kinds of clothes (nothing sexy, just t-shirt, sweat pants, etc), and when I get confused and ask if we are going to do it or not, she gets mad and says that I haven't tried to start anything. I guess coming to bed dressed like you are going to a college class and turning the other way is her way of showing me that she's willing. "
She wants you to "make a move" instead of just verbally asking for sex. Personally I don't think it's worth your time to keep trying with her but if you must then my suggestion would be to crawl up behind her and snuggle with her. Tell her you love her. Kiss her neck. See if she reacts. I don't know your wife but in my experience when a woman says "you haven't tried" that's what she's looking for. I hate being asked for sex. I'd much rather be flattered, flirted with, and romanced into the bed ;-)
I get that, however the problem is that after so much rejection, it's really hard to do that knowing that more likely than not I'll be told no. And it isn't a very nice no. A "nice" no would be something like, "I'm not into it now, but tomorrow night it'll be worth the wait", but instead I get, "NO, God! I just want to go to sleep! That's the only reason you hugged me, isn't it?"
What's really difficult is that I'll do that, and I'll have to do it for a long time, 10s of minutes before ANY reaction at all. So all the time I'm doing that, I'm not sure if she's willing or not. I have to go through this long period of trying not knowing if I'm going to be told no or not, it's very stressful.
I think you should use reverse pyschology. Do not discuss or initiate sex for a couple of months and see what happens.
Hahaha! Not a bad idea but since she never initiates I somehow doubt she'll even realize how much time has passed.
I get not wanting to give up on your marriage and I think that's very admirable but you need to make sure you are hanging on for reasons other than just the kids. If you love her and appreciate her and the only issue is the lack of sex then maybe it's something you can work on. I would probably go see a sex therapist.....alone.....and talk to them to see what they suggest and go from there. Clearly you two aren't going to resolve this on your own since you've tried that repeatedly and failed. I think it's time to pull the "we get help or I'm out" card.
I get that, however the problem is that after so much rejection, it's really hard to do that knowing that more likely than not I'll be told no. And it isn't a very nice no. A "nice" no would be something like, "I'm not into it now, but tomorrow night it'll be worth the wait", but instead I get, "NO, God! I just want to go to sleep! That's the only reason you hugged me, isn't it?"
I don't know how she was brought up --- maybe there was little or no outward signs of affection in her home --- or maybe something is whacko here with the way she inerprets a simple sign of nonsexual affection like a hug.
Either way, something is flukey.
What's really difficult is that I'll do that, and I'll have to do it for a long time, 10s of minutes before ANY reaction at all. So all the time I'm doing that, I'm not sure if she's willing or not. I have to go through this long period of trying not knowing if I'm going to be told no or not, it's very stressful.
The pp has another excellent idea: you see a sex therapist on your own and report in detail to this person what exactly is transpiring with your wife.
And another very long shot:
Is it possible she could be having an affair and has been having one for a very very long time?
That the bedroom department is closed to you is not normal. It's also not considerate, not caring and she's showing you she gives 2 sh!ts less about your satisfaction and your happiness and less care than that about your marriage overall.
I've kind of tried this, but what typically happens is that several weeks will go by, and I'll get really frustrated and point out that it's been 3 or 4 weeks, she'll insist that it hasn't been, so this erupts into a fight about how long it's been because she doesn't believe that it's been that long. Then she gets mad at me for keeping track. It's not that I'm keeping track on purpose, I just know.
I guess your funny honey isn't good at reading a calendar, either.
And I'll bet that fight culminates with the same conclusion as always: you not getting any.
I completely agree with everything Tarpon has said.
I too am curious about what she was like before the kids, and what are her interests outside of them?
Just to throw another possibility out there, does she have some sort of female version of the madonna/whore complex? I am not sure what you would call it, but maybe she can't reconcile her roles as both a wife and mother? As in "I'm a mother now...I can't have sex and be a sexual being." I am not sure if that makes sense.
Whatever it is, she seems completely unwilling to work on it, and it pains me to see how she manipulates you. This will never get better. I say cut your losses and move on.
We shared interests. As I said earlier in this thread, we used to go to the movies a lot, we'd go to baseball games, we'd go out to dinner several times per week.
I need to make it clear, it wasn't all that great before kids, we used to fight about the frequency then. But then it was more normal for it to be 3 times per month, which still wasn't all that great, but better than now.
What really bothers me so much, is that when we do fight about this, as bad as this sounds, we're fighting to win this fight, and me winning the fight means we end up doing it, her winning is us not doing it, so she's fighting to NOT do it, which seems so screwed up to me.
We'll fight for 2 hours, but we could've been done with doing it, both sleeping, in 1/2 hour. I just don't get it.
That's intensely interesting --- if a m-w syndrome for men exists, there could be a version of it for women.
And no sex is one thing -- being abusive and a bully to your spouse is quite another. That's what she's doing with you when she says it's black, you give her black and then she'll turn around and insist it's white --- and a big fight will ensue.
This isn't right and this isn't normal. And you're bearing the brunt of it.
Please don't be this woman's doormat or stepping stone or scapegoat. Here is where therapy will come in handy for you --- maybe you are just a nonconfrontational kind of guy; again, it could be the way you were brought up --- at any rate, you shouldn't let her treat you the way she dern well wants to.
If I can make a male observation,.......
Women enter into relationships for quite different reasons to men. Women take up with men who either inspire them to love,..feel some kind of respect,....or, offer some kind of excitement such as exciting lifestyle, wealth, danger status etc.
Frequently when women are discussing men one will sat that a particular man is "too nice",.......since women apparently want "nice" men this seems like a contradiction in terms. However what they really mean by "too nice" is that the man has n9one of these three vital qualities whatever his good charcateristics.
In the case of the OP, every time his wife rejects his sexual advances she is actually saying that their relationship 'only has sex',...ie., none (or little) of the vital features are left,....no particular love,...no respect obviously,...and no excitement. In short; she aparently got what she thought she wanted in a husband but it turned out to be boring!
The good news for the OP is that 'out there' there are women who have had a rough ride with men and been treated very badly,...there's more than one of these who will find the OP very worthy of respect,...who will find his kindness and reliability exciting and who will respond to his warmth with love,..and will enjoy sex with such a man.
The last time I hear a woman say "he's too nice" was in my early 20's. I've never heard a woman over the age of 30 say this.
As a married woman in her mid-30's "too nice" to me......when in my 20's and hearing it/saying it......was more of a "I'm not attracted to him and only see him as a friend"........
I don't really see how this applies to the OP???? ::shrug::
I'm going to reiterate: Do not stay in a screwed up relationship "for the kids." You're not doing them any favors; all you're doing is teaching them that screwed up relationships are normal. If one of your daughters were in a relationship where her husband was treating her like your wife is treating you, would you tell her to stay? I bet not.
I think your wife is any combination of the following: asexual, gay, someone who marries for security and not love.
She's jerking you all over the place; nothing you do will EVER make her happy. As a pp said, she'll ask for one thing, and when you give it to her, it's not right anymore and she wants something else. You are never going to have the relationship you deserve with this woman.
I think you need counseling to understand why you think you don't deserve to be in a loving relationship and you're settling for this crap.
Ok so that won't work. She really needs to loosen up. I am wondering if you both feel that magnetic energy that naturally draws you to the other because your souls want to be connected. A long term relationship will not sustain itself without it.
Loosen up? This has gone on for years.:(
An update on things. The last two days I've tried to be perfect. I didn't get bothered by anything, I was as nice as could be. I made it clear that I wanted to do things with her after our kids went to bed (not sexual things), and was giving lots of hugs throughout the days. I've done the dishes and cleaned up from dinner. Last night, after the kids went to bed, we played cards, something she always says she wants but I'm not all that interested in. So we did anyway. Then, when we went to bed, she was reading her book, I made it clear that I wanted her to stop. So then I turned her on her stomach and proceeded to rub her back for the next 15 minutes. At no point did I ask to do it, I just did. And it worked. And it was good, for both of us.
The key will be what happens in the following week.
I don't think I have to be perfect for this to happen all the time, but I'll try to change my approach.
Im only a 23 year old gal so this may fall on deaf ears HOWEVER, my fiance and I don't have sex that often either, in fact we may only have it once every two weeks or so. We are very open in discussing masturbation but I always feel guilty when I am unable to be the one to satisfy him. Our problem is that we have no privacy and are forced to be as silent as possible, a terrible mood killer when you're making sure the headboard doesn't squeak, etc. Our other problem seem's to be that we are also in a rut. Every week it is the same: he leaves for work at 2pm, he gets home at 11:30pm and we watch the same show's each night. On his weekends we sleep in and perhaps once a month we go to the mall (which I know he detests but puts up with). We go to the same restaurants one or twice a month and the weeks just blur together. Granted I love that man like there was no tomorrow but we have had to truly sit down and talk about how we don't try and make enough time for sex. He told me some of his concerns and I shared mine: I'm too insecure about my body image and it frustrates him, I would like him to stop being so "nice" and timid now and then and just "take me" as it were heh. TALK to her, Sit her down when you are alone and DEMAND that it get worked out.
She is not the only one in the relationship. All these people talking about how YOU need to make HER feel special? Who say's a woman can't pamper and please her man now and then? Tell her that if she feel's you are coming off in the wrong way when it comes to your sex life, you can try a little role reversal? She can come on to YOU.
Also, you are obviously committed to this relationship and I commend you. Do not let the others on here beat you down with their talk of divorce, if you are unhappy.....fix it. You're wife wont see a councilor? Book a meeting any way and remind her that you are doing it to help the both of you.
Woo Hoo you got some!! Good for you!
Wow, are you even living???
Sorry, just a joke. It sounds like you need to stop bearing all the responsibilities on your shoulders and have a little fun.
There's nothing wrong with drinking in moderation, if you choose not to drink don't drink, but don't let your wife dictate what you do- especially if she does nothing for you. It is good that you go to amusement parks and spend time with your brother.
Is she on a hormonal birth control method? If she is on birth control, that messes with hormones and makes women not want to have sex as much. With a lot of women, they almost never WANT to have sex, but when they do it anyway it's very enjoyable. It's weird. I noticed a huge change when I went on the pill.
Another thing- 10 days seems extremely long for the monthly visitor. I'm guessing she's lying about that or has some kind of medical problem. It only lasts 3-6 days in healthy women.
A cold is no reason not to have sex either. The only reason I'd say no to my husband is if I'm sick to my stomach because that can get worse. Sex doesn't make a cold worse.
Still, the truth is, you can't force her to have sex with you. And she can't force you to stay married to her. You have just as much of a right to have sex as she has a right not to have sex. You need to tell her how you feel and tell her you're not going to stick around if she's not going to be loving towards you. Sounds like a lot of the things she's saying are stereotypical low-blows women say when they don't love a guy anymore.
You have a right to find true love. Splitting up a family sucks, but the way she's treating you is unacceptable and it's obviously a deeper reason than what she makes it out to be. It's unfair for a wife to not have a physical relationship with her husband and still expect him to work, help around the house, etc. Sex is just as much a part of the marriage covenant as everything else.
Maybe you could try to find something to do together that would ignite a common interest between the two of you. It doesn't have to be one of the things you guys used to do, but maybe something new. Like, going on an early morning walk together before getting ready to go to work in the mornings (my parents used to do this for a while and it brought them closer together), cooking lessons, or (if you guys are more active) joining a gym and working out together. Having something that you guys regularly do together will hopefully bring back a common interest and closeness that you guys once shared.
I also think it'd be a good idea to start having a "date night" once every night either every week or every other week. Planned in advance, you could take her out to a new restaurant (switch it up frequently) and either do a movie, take her out for ice cream or something else (like put-put if you have one around). Hopefully this will add that spark back into the relationship. Just think of all the time that has gone by and how little attention you guys have given to yourselves (aside from being with children or sex).
And if you guys choose to start doing a "date night" be sure to be firm with other people about how those "date nights" are a priority over almost everything else (like if a friend wants to hang out that night because you won't be able to see him for a while... sorry! Stick to the plans w/ wifey).
That's great!
I hope things continue to go well!!! 
I agree. The 5 love languages is an amazing book for couples. If not the book, at least each of you take the quiz online. It'll teach you how to talk/love each other. If you know how to give her what she wants, she'll do the same for you. Once you understand what she needs, things will move along. Bedroom problems on the women's side, rarely starts in the bedroom. Good luck.
I'm not buying this at all.
There's other problems here besides the lack of sex. You and she should have been in therapy a long time ago.
"I like jogging, but I don't like jogging when it's too cold. So when it is cold, I'll use any excuse to NOT go jogging. That's what happens with sex. I have a cold, I'm too tired, I'm worried about work, I'm worried about the party, my knee is sore, my head hurts, I'm worried about having to return this dress, I think I might have pink eye, etc etc etc."
I'm a noob, sorry, haven't figured out exactly how to quote everything.
This paragraph makes me feel like maybe you two have a communication problem. I'm pretty young, so I obviously don't have some of the same experience others have, but believe me on this one. I think your wife actually is stressed about all those things - I don't think she's avoiding you, I think she probably enjoys intercourse with you! Some women are highly affected by stress in some physical way or another. I get extreme migraines; she might have an extreme drop in her libido.
Either way, she probably needs to be more receptive. Since she's said it's "all about being nice" I feel like we're not getting the whole story. I'm a little ashamed to admit it, but I used to be very rude about my MIL to my husband. This affected our relationship, because even though I felt like I was very nice to him, he felt like I was putting him between a rock and a hard place. We don't know it from your post, but is there something you say/do that could be stressing her out further? It might be a good idea for you to ask her where she feels like you're lacking in the "nice" department, and explain that you feel like you try hard for her, but you seem to be missing something.
Also, lack of romance can be directly impacted by too much work, or intense work, etc. I'm a student, and I know that around finals time, we're just going to do our own thing and barely talk to each other because I'm stressed and busy. It can feel like a ton of effort to be romantic when you have a million other things on your mind, and some women strongly connect sex and romance. You seem like a very nice guy, and I think your wife probably needs to try harder to deal with the issue, but maybe you need to approach this a different way.
Instead of, "Want to go have some fun?" say something that indicates that you are NOT talking about sex. Say, "I think we're both a little too tired for anything major, but do you want to watch a movie/have a glass of wine with me/etc to unwind before we go to bed?" Tell her you can tell she's stressed out, and ask what you can do to make her less stressed. Maybe, instead of worrying about some of the other things you take care of, you could tell her you know she's got a lot on her mind, and you'd like to be in charge of dinner. If she doesn't respond to you making the extra effort, I would point out to her that you've been trying to help her destress, and you think maybe a professional would be able to help you both more.
I hope this works out for you; I know it can be tough when one thing or another gets in the way of your relationship. I really think a little focused conversation could go a long way here.
There was another whole day long fight today. We're in the middle of potty training our kids. It isn't going well. I was in the basement playing with one kid when she, my daughter, said she peed her pants. So I took her upstairs. My wife was LIVID with me for not putting her on the potty sooner. My daughter said nothing at all. But I was supposed to know to put her on it every 45 minutes and that it had been 45 minutes since the last time. Mind you, I was at work all week, she was on spring break and at home all week, so this was my first morning with this potty training routine. I told her that I thought maybe the plan wasn't working and that they didn't seem like they were ready yet. She said, "why are you so unsupportive? Why do I have to do EVERYTHING??!!" The commeng about doing everything really bothered me.
Later, after I left the house because I was so mad, she insisted that I told her she was dumb and that she was wasting her time and that it was pointless. Of course I said none of those things. I never said she was dumb, I just said that it didn't seem like it was working because in the week that she's been trying, the only thing has been to place the kid on the potty for hours until it finally happens. She doesn't feel like she needs to go, and doesn't know when it's about to happen, it just does, which led me to say that maybe she isn't ready. The other kid (they're twins), has absolutely NO interest at all.
My wife is beyond panicked about this. She says I dont understnad the urgency. She said, "THEY CAN'T BE STILL IN DIAPERS WHEN THEY ARE 4 YEARS OLD!!!!" I must point out that they turned 3....SIX DAYS AGO!!! We have 351 days until they turn 4, why in the world is she so freaked out about it???
She later said that when she said that she does "everything", she meant everything to do with potty training. I honestly don't believe that's what she meant at the time, because I gave her the opportunity to clarify what she meant by that in the moment, and she didn't.
There is something else that I want to mention. My wife went into pre-term labor when she was pregnant with my kids at 26 weeks. She was in the hospital, on bed rest, for 8 weeks straight before they finally were born, a month early nontheless. I stayed with her, in the hospital, sleeping on the floor on an air mattress, for every single night. I went to the hospital every single lunch break (except once when I had a dentist appointment). At the end of the work day, I ran home, took a shower, got clothes for the next day, and went to the hospital for the whole evening. I was at her side just about every minute possible for the whole time. One weekend day, I'd leave to go home to do my laundry and go to the store to buy food for me (mostly frozen dinners)
I have other friends whose wives went through something similar, and NONE of them stayed in the hospital at all.
Why did I do it? Because she's my wife, and my family, and during that time, my home was not my house, it was that hospital room.
Why does she think I did it? So I could use it against her later. Seriously, she's told me that before.