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have we discussed this yet?
in Married Life
This is the video and an article (from a christian blog, the first place i could find the video) about Dan Savage, who is an anti gay bullying activist, speaking at a high school journalism conference. His speech turns into a bible bashing of sorts, and quite a few students get up and walk out.
How do you feel about his speech? and about the fact that he was saying this stuff at a high school journalism conference?
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Re: have we discussed this yet?
This is basically how I feel about the whole thing...
I heard about this happening yesterday, but at the time I didn't realize it was at a HIGH SCHOOL journalism conference! WOW. Bible bashing really had no place there. And I would guess that 99% of those high school kids that left are not bullying any gay kids anyway.And THEN he called the kids that walked out pansy a$$es and pretty much said that they don't like when the shoe is on the other foot. Which I don't agree with, because like I said previously, who is to say of these kids are even bullying ANYONE? Let alone someone that is gay. I don't think that bashing a teenagers religion is ever the right way to go about convincing them of something.
I LOVE THE GAYS AND I DONT EVEN AGREE WITH THIS ***!
I feel like he set a PISS POOR example of not bullying, and basically just bullied people who don't agree with his view. which is what i thought we were trying to get away from.
He needs to :#1 realize that you need to change your tactics when talking to high school kids#2 realize that loving everyone and not bullying doesn't mean "just don't bully gay people, everyone else is fair game"#3 realize that NOT all christians hate gay people, but if he doesn't shut the hell up, they're all gonna hate HIM.#4 stop being such a bible bashing douche and figure out that if you want to reach the masses, then you probably should try to stay as neutral as possible in your speeches and try to convince people to LIKE you. and be on YOUR SIDE, not make them walk out of a speech because you're projecting your Jesus hate onto them.
I want to write this guy an email.
these kids aren't real journalists, they're like the yearbook staff..... this is high school, not real life.
So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
it's dan savage. i don't expect ann coulter to say nice things about 9/11 widows, and i don't expect dan savage not to bring up and discuss what he believes to be the wrongheaded biblical support for anti-gay bullying.
and he's right. if you're walking out of a journalism conference because you don't like what you're hearing, you're probably too wimpy for journalism. high school isn't too early to learn that lesson.
This post reminds me to check out this week's Savage Love.
So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
I don't see it any differently than a person using the bible to excuse atrocious behavior. The Christian population has to be able to take as good as they give which means, if you hold up the Holy Book as a blueprint for how to live and will use quotes to suit your feelings, then you have to be ready for someone to completely disparage said Holy Book.
Also, I think this is part of journalism and that pesky thing called free speech.
why would you guess this?
I assume that Christians who took the time out of their day to attend an anti-bullying speech are not going around bullying gays in their spare time. I could be wrong.
and it's irrelevant. what, only people who give kids swirlies are the bad guys now? how about all those who stay silent? or who say things like "i don't hate the sinner, just the sin" and offer to love you even though they think your sexual orientation is dooming you to hell?
dan savage's "it gets better" campaign is focused on communicating to younger people how, as you get older and can self-select your cohorts and as you and everyone around you becomes more mature, life won't be the shiitshow that high school can be for many many kids. and it's not a shiitshow just because of a couple loudmouths who slam kids into lockers. it's because of the silent nonaction of so so many around them. myself included. i only wish someone like dan savage had opened my eyes to how awful it could be for some people around me (and opened the eyes of some of my classmates for how awful it was for me now and again--though for me it was mostly middle school).
I agree that he should be encouraging people to speak up against bullying, and not stay silent. I also agree that he should be promoting that it DOES get better as you get older and can chose who you hang around with.
I am simply stating that I think that talking down about someone's religion, and calling them pansy a$$es for walking out when someone is doing so, is more likely to make your message about not bullying fall on deaf ears.
You just said this better than I could have. Dan Savage is one of my favorite people on the planet. I love his intelligence, his wit and his fearlessness.
I'm curious about what the people who booked him said. He's wildly famous, so I'm fairly certain they knew exactly what kind of talk he'd give.
So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
It's pathetic when anyone bashes others' for what they believe...whether it's Dan Savage bashing the Bible or the GOP or someone who bashes the gay community (or any community for that matter). Why can't people just accept that not everyone agrees and some never will and they have that right. I also think it's completely unacceptable that this was at a HIGH SCHOOL and if I was a parent of one of those teens I would've been on the phone with the school immediately. The school environment is supposed to be non-bias so that students can come to their own conclusions on what they stand for; I'd be livid. Also, it's not only the Bible (christianity in general) that states ridiculous things...the Quran says terrifying things, the Torah, etc. all have writings that are ridiculous when taken in direct translation.
are you familiar with dan savage? anyone with an interest in journalism should be. like the people who booked him and the kids to attended the conference.
this is not like billy graham getting up at a conference and setting a bible on fire where everyone could be all "holy hell! who knew that would happen?"
AND his fundamental message is clear. don't use your religion as an excuse for active or passive bullying. anyone who shuts down in the face of that message wasn't going to listen to it spoon-fed to them either. and it's DAN SAVAGE. he's not a spoon feeder. and also not the only person in the world with that message. maybe those same kids will hear it from someone else with a more gentle delivery style in the future.
Ok, I just checked that hysterically right-wing, fundie link. Do you think this is an unbiased account? Yes, the video speaks for itself, but it's THREE minutes of a key note speech.
So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
I see what you are saying, but religion is used by so many to excuse their feelings in the first place. I don't see why that should be allowed (since the last time i checked neither God nor Jesus held a press conference to say exactly how they feel) and yet someone cannot point out that they think that is BS. Seriously, you can't wave the banner of religion and then think that someone is not going to try and tear it down.
It is this hypocrisy that drives me insane. I can spew mean, hateful *** all in the name of God and religion, but they are completely off limits to you. It's insane.
I have heard of him, but don't follow him. I have no interest in journalism, and also no interest in him. I support his anti gay bullying message, but do not support the way he delivers it. I prefer spoon feeding to be honest.
Right. It's not only the Bible that's referenced as a means of legitimizing gay bashing. It's just most frequently the Bible. Because you hear absurd Biblical justifications all the time. That's not what Christianity should be about.
Signed,
Dan Savage Loving Episcopalian
So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
He has already apologized for the name calling:
http://popwatch.ew.com/2012/05/01/dan-savage-christian-teens/
There's more explanation to his speech and thoughts in that article, too. He says his email inbox is an exciting place to visit these days, so yours may get lost in the shuffle!
And while he shouldn't have name-called or insulted the kids who walked out, I guess I don't think he was wrong for calling them out on it either. I agree with cville that high school isn't too early or young to learn that you aren't always going to like what you hear. She basically explained my thoughts much better than I can
ETA: And I also think whoever organized this should have realized (and maybe they did and didn't care) that when they booked Dan Savage, that things may get controversial.
I wasn't saying that this link was the whole speech, it was the offensive part. Which is the part that I was upset about.
And like I said in my OP, the article is from a christian blog, which is the first thing that came up when I googled in my attempt to see the video. I didn't even read the article, just watched the video, since I can form my own opinion with out reading what someone else has to say about said video clip.
Husbands should be like Kleenex: Soft, strong, and disposable.
How very Sally Bowles of you.
And what do you mean by your last sentence? What spoon feeding are you talking about? And are you saying there's something dishonest about Dan Savage?
I'd also like to point out the importance of education oneself before jumping to conclusions based off of a very pointed, very biased website. That might involve reading some things written by journalists, though, so perhaps it's easier to be spoon fed.
So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
You really hate the reading, dontcha?
So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
I think bullying, gay-bashing and campaigns to deny people civil rights go a little bit beyond "let's agree to disagree!"
And frankly, the particular flavor of Christianity/interpretation of the Bible used to support hatred and bigotry deserves to be talked down about.
no, my last sentence could have also been written : Honestly, I prefer to be spoon fed.
It is being said that Savage isn't a "spoon feeder" of his message, and others have a gentler approach of saying things. I'm saying that if thats the case, then I prefer to be spoon fed.
And again, I watched the video from that website. I didn't base my feelings or argument on anything that was written there, because I DIDN'T READ IT. Unless they changed the words he said, then It doesn't matter what site I watch it from, I will still feel that what he said was not appropriate for that setting.
I don't hate reading, I just didn't care to read what a Christian blogger, whose views would obviously be skewed on this topic had to say.
You're kind of confusing.
So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
1. This entire situation is the fault of the school for not doing at least a preliminary freaking check into who Dan Savage is and the nature of his speech and general tone. It feels disingenuous and ridiculous to hire someone to give a key note speech who is known for blunt talk about sexual orientation and pointed opinions and then complain when he exhibits the very characteristics for which he is most well-known. It's like hiring Ann Coulter to speak at a Democratic rally and then getting all upset when she calls liberals morons; and
2. I get the students' dismay; but I also get and approve of the message Savage is sending -- and I'm a Catholic. I'll admit my reaction to this article was "boo-f*cking-hoo." Gays have been subject to this kind of vitriol forever, and I think it's a valuable lesson to learn how it feels to have something central to your life and belief system denigrated to such an extreme. I think it has an excellent impact in a "shoe's-on-the-other-foot" kind of way.
Updated September 2012.
I apologize for being confusing.
I was told about this WHOLE thing by my VERY conservative Christian friend. I honestly was expecting to watch the video and think "oh, that was definitely not as bad as my friend was making it out to be". But I was surprised, and did feel that the tone of his message was not appropriate for the setting he was in.
I am a Christian, but much more liberal, and do not feel that being gay is something people should be bullied or judged about.
If you are still confused, please let me know so i can elaborate further.
The only thing that I've gotten out of this thread is that Christian fundies aren't judgemental. Interesting.