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Why Not Move Then?
Okay. So, I do have to now ask, for the second time this week, if you don't like the way the U.S does things right now and you don't care for the lack of "liberal progress" that our nation has to offer at this point, why don't you move to any one of the more liberal countries, which we've discussed in PPs, that do provide nationalized healthcare etc.? Why are you still here?
People are jumping walls/fences and swimming in man-made waterways, risking drowning, to be here illegally.
But, you look across the ocean and see or read about something "better." Again, why are you here?
There are those of us that have nothing against progress, innovation, or creativity, who do want to see this country move ahead in every way possible. Yet, we retain something that goes back to our founding...the idea that we don't want government messing in our lives. THIS IS WHAT AMERICA HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT.
People have escaped all types of lives and situations to be here and they are still coming - to have the freedom to stand on their own and to not be told either by way of violence or by way of a one size fits all government, how to run their lives.
The government you seek, like in the European nations, such as Sweden or whatever, is telling you what to do/making your decisions for you...it is just so unlike this country to be that way...it is unAmerican. Americans make their own way and their own choices.
When you give away your right to choose (for you pro-choicers out there, this should ring true), you lose freedom over yourself and your family. There is a dear cost to pay for government control over peoples' lives.
Lots of posts around TN deal with bringing kids up in or out of organized religion. Many posters remark that they don't want to direct their children in one way or another, they want them to have the freedom to choose for themselves. Or, posters comment that they want their kids to be able to have all the options before them. So here IS a case of people wanting all the choices. Not wanting to be told what to do and not telling their kids what to do.
Why do you want the U.S. government being like a parent to you telling you what to do with your lives and directing where your hard-earned paycheck goes?
Is this a confidence issue? Are you not confident enough in your own decisions that you need a federal government to do the job for you? I just do not understand that you live in one of the wealthiest, nicest places in the world with everything at your fingertips, and you still look longingly at what we don't have.
Not trying to be snarky here. Honestly though, why don't you move if the U.S isn't doing you justice? I've read that all those nations in PPs also have declining populations due to low birth rates, so they could probably use the warm bodies. I think Sweden's is negative. So, all the free healthcare is great in a dwindling population...more to go around.
Re: Why Not Move Then?
So in order to be a true American we're supposed to like and agree with everything 100 percent?
You're the one that doesn't agree with our President, why don't you just move?
Serious question: why don't YOU move, MommyLiberty? Did you ever answer that question from the other thread?
As we move forward this country will hopefully become even more liberal and progressive - I don't think your going to like it. So, maybe move?
ETA: also, I don't think you actually know what this country has "always" been about. We were big on slavery and hanging witches at one time. Sorry, if you think we should stay in the 1700's, but its not gonna happen
I don't need to move. We won. You lost. We are moving forward because we won. If you don't like it tell your party to stop being hateful or you will continue to have the same results but worse in national elections. If you don't want to do that then move. Your party needs to adapt or get out. America is changing and your party is staying the same. The problem is you are not growing your base and are dying...literally. So you move or change. We are doing fine and moving forward. Thank you for your concern though.
Because it's hard to get tenure track jobs anywhere, let alone at a university where we don't speak the language.
Why are you assuming we should move to a more progressive country, why don't you move to a more conservative country? (I'm not being snarky, I really want to hear where you think the next most-American country is and your reasons for not moving there).
Why? Because I love my country and have never been more proud.
I also believe in living by my Christian principles of love thy neighbor and living like Jesus- taking care of my fellow man with charitable hearts; championing the poor, sick and disenfranchised; turning the Temple tables on my leaders' greed and corruption.
I was a moderate Republican that my party forgot and decided my issues were silly and a distraction. They pushed me away. My patriotism didn't faulter, however. I can wrap myself in Old Glory just as much as the next. I'm not going anywhere- it's just my vote that is moving.
Yes, and many fought and died to protect the Constitution, which embodies your right to free speech. This freedom guaranteed by the United States Constitution, and the free market principles are necessary to such a free society. My DH has a scar on his leg from where he was shot protecting the Constitution.
American exceptionalism is a dying philosophy and that is what makes me sad. I wish people wouldn't think of our Founding Fathers as "dead white men," and the Constitution as a dated "living document," subject to interpretation by modern liberal scholars. It is a huge part of what made this country so great.
I am not a sore loser, yes President Obama didn't get my vote, but he is my president and he has my support. I just hope and pray he will reach across the aisle and do what is right for ALL Americans.
And if you're so against government handouts, you should be against people who refuse to take responsibility for themselves and their loved ones by buying health insurance instead of showing up to the ER and expecting doctors to treat them for FREE because of a law that prohibits hospitals from turning them away. That's the system we have now and it's crippling our healthcare industry.
Sometimes regulation is necessary even in a free market. It's made our cars and water supply safer, it helps safeguard our public health and it stops people who want to contribute nothing to society but take advantage of our most vulnerable members.
so, you only want the constitution to be subject to interpretation by conservative scholars? If we left the constitution as it was originally, you wouldn't even have the right to vote, sweetie.
I appreciate your response. Thank you.
To the PPs, I have actually lived in Spain as well as Finland. I have visited at length about 45 states - I lost count and track over the years - oh, wait, I haven't been to Alabama and Maine and a few others. Also, I have a very well-traveled family and we have road-tripped pretty much this entire country. I didn't just pop in somewhere, in an airport for a few hours, I have put in the road time, seeing all of America. And, my family has also traveled extensively abroad. My BFF was born in the Middle East and grew up in Hong Kong, Geneva and while we were at college her family resided in Finland and then the Ivory Coast...government family. I have friends around the globe with whom I correspond...I am aware of the cultural issues and tensions of the world. I for the places I haven't been, I stay up on the news and read a lot about other cultures and religions. So, I'm not living under a rock to those who accuse me of that.
My votes tend to sway Republican. But, I don't like identifiying with that party. I am not in love with them. I just don't love any of the other options.
Herman Cain just discussed a third political party. If one pops up, you can be sure I'll be looking into it.
You're preaching to the choir here. I am a huge advocate of people taking responsibility. Read some of my PPs about being self-reliant and not counting on a government to totally take care of you when your power goes out...government help is okay, but more Americans need to step up and take responsibility for themselves. I agree with you.
A free market would be brutal without some regulation. Also, if you read PPs of mine from awhile back, sorry I don't remember when, you will find remarks that regualtion is needed to protect us.
Can someone say Communistic?
The bolded. Why IS there so much disdain toward the Founding Fathers? They were great men for that time and by today's standards, their quality of education, thought, and character would be a high ideal for today too. No. They weren't perfect, but what they did is extraordinary. Have any of you read their memoirs or their biographies? WOW!
Others here and myself are accused of living in the past or of having dated models of thought because we desire a return to the original way our nation was set up - focusing on states' rights and a limited federal government.
Here are some cliche phrases to say it better:
Less is more.
Good things come in small packages.
A little bit goes a long way.
None of the posters in this "camp" would say that things like slavery or women or minorities not being able to vote and own property are good things, or that they are good for society. But these issues, while important, have nothing to do with STATES RIGHTS and small government. They are humanitarin issues and have been helped immensely with proper amendments to our Constitution.
It IS a living document, to ensure that all people have a right to life and to protection. But, living doesn't mean that we should alter it drastically, making it live, to federal proportions.
And, I agree that people have a right to be fed and have healthcare. Children should not be going to bed hungry in this nation. We aren't debating these points.
But the states can do it better. Let the states decide for themselves how to handle these things. The problems are important and are serious, but having a huge government handle them doesn't allow for tailored needs of various demographics.
When the power goes out ... So you're against FEMA?
And regulation is "government messing with our lives," plain and simple. So I'm not sure what your OP is referring to. The U.S. still has a strong culture of self-reliance, but that doesn't mean the government shouldn't step in to make sure predatory lenders aren't slicing and dicing our mortgages for their own gain and that everyone who wants to get married can. That's called giving everyone at the starting line a fair shot. That's why the U.S. is such a great place to live, because we all have equal protection under the law, not because we all get to run amok without government interference.
Please do not put words in my mouth. I never said I want the constitution interpreted by ANYONE. The constitution stands on its own merit.
I wholeheartedly believe in our Free Market Democracy and how well our form of government has worked to protect our personal freedoms and drive a strong economy.
In one sentence you talk about being against slavery and in the next sentence about State rights. Slavery was bought to us by state rights as was the need for a civil rights act. States do not always do it better. Unless your argument is that abolishing slavery and creating the civil rights act is not better. We are the United States of America. If states can do it better than why not just have a bunch of small countries?
Did you read what I said??? It's about being self-reliant - I specifically said "not totally take care of you" in regards to the federal governemnt. In other words, do something to plan on a disaster ahead of time, so your family isn't caught with it's pants down, and then rely on government help, but not TOTALLY. Do you understand the word, 'totally?" Government should help disaster victims, but people also shouldn't count on TOTAL support and should take some initiative to plan ahead. This may mean not buying an extra TV or a suped up phone for awhile so you can buy some extra food for your pantry or whatever. I specifically said, "some government help is okay."
Dude, your reading comprehension isn't working here.
Regulation HAS to happen in a free market. A free market would be brutal without some. Yes, regulation is government involved somewhat in a process. I never said anything AGAINST regulation. In fact, I said it was NEEDED...like in your lending example. And FYI: I used to BE a lender, so I know what you are meaning. Please reread my post and see that nothing I wrote contradicts your points.
My husband also has a scar on his leg that he got protecting the Constitution- that doesn't mean he has to agree with your interpretation of it.
Because this country was founded upon the premise of a free market democracy and some of the president's philosophies are socialistic in nature. And while there might be some good things about socialism it is not the way this country was founded (at least that is what I have taken from the thread).
So, MommyLiberty is refusing to answer the question she herself posed??
Since you don't like the direction this country is going in, WHY DON'T YOU MOVE? For real. Why won't you answer your own question?
I am not interpreting it one way or the other. I am simply saying our country was designed to be a free market society, that is not an interpretation, it is what it is.
I have a BA in political science/public policy and I worked for my state legislature for eight years. I am well-versed in the Founding Fathers and their philosophies.
Acknowledging that the Founding Fathers were fallible human beings operating with their own biases and maybe they didn't get everything exactly right is not the same as disdain. I've noticed that many conservatives have a tendency to think in terms of extremes- if I question the motives or wisdom of anything the Founding Fathers did, that somehow means I think they were terrible people and we should use the Constitution as toilet paper. I don't get it.
I also don't understand why you can't just accept that reasonable, intelligent people can look at the same facts as you but simply come to a different conclusion.
And your solution that if people don't like it, they should just move really is about the laziest reasoning I've ever heard, and I would argue that with this attitude YOU are the one who is failing to acknowledge the beauty of democracy and the American political process. What's the point of being able to elect people to represent us in the law-making process or even having a legislative body if nothing is ever supposed to change and we're all supposed to just sit down and shut up?
Can you tell me specifically where it says that in the Constitution?