Politics & Current Events
GeraldoRivera
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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
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We don't have a gun problem in this country
Re: We don't have a gun problem in this country
Now one child is reported dead.
But at least we still have our freedom!
omg, last i read no one was dead except gunman. this stuff disgusts me so much
This news makes me sick to my stomach. Those poor, poor families.
On the one hand we refuse to create safety nets that would decrease the true causes of violence, on the other hand we refuse to limit access to guns in any real manner. Therefore, this kind of tragedy should not be surprising - and yet everytime i hear of something like this it just breaks my heart into a million pieces. Something needs to be done,
Now it's eighteen children dead.
But God forbid we do anything about gun control in this country.
I haven't even had mine yet and I had this exact same thought upon seeing this story.
But now if anyone brings up gun control, they'll be "taking advantage of the situation."
FLUCKING TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT THEN.
My honest question for you would be what sort of gun control do you think could prevent tragedies like this?
Banning Handguns? Cocaine is illegal and I'm fairly certain I could get my hands on some within 24 hours if I wanted to.
Personally I think the solution is greater access to mental health services and care. But that's not cheap, and almost impossible to really implement without socialized medicine, and we all know what a struggle it was to get the ACA passed, which is about 1/10th of socialized medicine.
The world is coming to end. It must be. An adult enters a grade school with a gun and shoots. What the hell is wrong with people? Good God. Enough of this.
Some one always knew something. Someone was probably worried about this person. This is the problem. Where do we even begin??!
This makes me sick. I am horrified.
There needs to be a real discussion about gun control.
Just yesterday the Michigan Legislature passed a bill that allows concealed weapons in schools and day care centers, as well as churches, stadiums, etc.. Why? Why would people need guns in these places? As much as I dislike him, I kinda don't think our Governor is going to sign that bill, but I am disgusted it even passed.
I agree that mental health services are important - but availability of mental health services is only half the battle. People are incredibly resistant to seeking those services even when readily available.
Poverty and lack of hope are other huge factors in violence. We need a society where people can pursue *and obtain* happiness. People with fufilling lives don't commit mass acts of violence,
Being able to obtain illegal items is always going to be an issue. I mean, with enoug effort you can obtain almost anything. I think that dichotomizing access into all or none is a futile thought experiment because it will never happen. The thing we need to figure out is what level of access is acceptable.
i understand your thoughts, but on the other side what if someone that is smart about guns and had it on him and shot the shooter and was able to prevent all these deaths. I have conflicted feelings about gun control
That's not even reccomended, though. In most cases, that would be more dangerous. Like, the "hero" accidentally shoots more innocent victims while aiming at the shooter. A gunfight is not safer than a lone shooter, right? There were some good responses about it in one of the gun threads below.
ETA: swear I didn't copy you, CoffeeBeen! You beat me too it.
*points out that this NEVER happens* I'm sure someone could find me examples of private residence instances of shooting/defending against attackers. But in these mass incidents?
It's an awfully big damned "if" too. Let's make sure guns are nice and accessible just in case someone happens to be in the right place at the right time and has the training to deal with it in as safe a manner as possible without jeopardizing more innocent lives in the process.
Yeah, okay.
Why do I have a feeling that we'll be seeing armed guards and metal detectors in elementary schools by the time my kid is in kindergarten?
Learning how to shoot a gun at a shooting range will not help you in a mass shooting situation.
It simply won't.
Even the most experienced (LEOs, military people) shooters won't return fire in a mass shooting like this situation, Aurora or the Portland area mall.
Guns are horrible weapons. I'm not for banning them but I think it should be incredibly difficult to get licenses to own and/or carry them. That won't prevent the black market on them.
Maybe the US government should spend more time and resources going after black market guns instead of continuing the war on drugs.
Amur'ca! A chicken in every pot and a gun in every classroom!
I am not so sure gun control will stop these types of tragic situations. Even if all guns were banned, the "bad" guys could still get their hand on one. As LuckyDad said, cocaine is illegal but I am sure I could find some if I so desired.
My heart goes out to these folks. It is devastating to lose a loved one period, but to lose them 2 weeks before Christmas...I cannot begin to fathom their pain.
I kind of actually agree with that as well. they pretty much own us
Weren't we saying that about Japan in the 90s?
don't know i was 10
This might change your mind about that:
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2011/01/friendly_firearms.html
The new poster boy for this agenda is Joe Zamudio, a hero in the Tucson incident. Zamudio was in a nearby drug store when the shooting began, and he was armed. He ran to the scene and helped subdue the killer. Television interviewers are celebrating his courage, and pro-gun blogs are touting his equipment. "Bystander Says Carrying Gun Prompted Him to Help," says the headline in the Wall Street Journal.
But before we embrace Zamudio's brave intervention as proof of the value of being armed, let's hear the whole story. "I came out of that store, I clicked the safety off, and I was ready," he explained on Fox and Friends. "I had my hand on my gun. I had it in my jacket pocket here. And I came around the corner like this." Zamudio demonstrated how his shooting hand was wrapped around the weapon, poised to draw and fire. As he rounded the corner, he saw a man holding a gun. "And that's who I at first thought was the shooter," Zamudio recalled. "I told him to 'Drop it, drop it!' "
But the man with the gun wasn't the shooter. He had wrested the gun away from the shooter. "Had you shot that guy, it would have been a big, fat mess," the interviewer pointed out.
Zamudio agreed:
When Zamudio was asked what kind of weapons training he'd had, he answered: "My father raised me around guns ? so I'm really comfortable with them. But I've never been in the military or had any professional training. I just reacted."
The Arizona Daily Star, based on its interview with Zamudio, adds two details to the story. First, upon seeing the man with the gun, Zamudio "grabbed his arm and shoved him into a wall" before realizing he wasn't the shooter. And second, one reason why Zamudio didn't pull out his own weapon was that "he didn't want to be confused as a second gunman."
This is a much more dangerous picture than has generally been reported. Zamudio had released his safety and was poised to fire when he saw what he thought was the killer still holding his weapon. Zamudio had a split second to decide whether to shoot. He was sufficiently convinced of the killer's identity to shove the man into a wall. But Zamudio didn't use his gun. That's how close he came to killing an innocent man. He was, as he acknowledges, "very lucky."
The drug comparison is silly for a variety of reasons. First of all, no one gets addicted to guns. Second, guns are a hell of a lot harder to manufacture and smuggle than cocaine. Virtually all of the guns that are out there are legally produced in legal factories. Finally, the fewer guns there are out there, the fewer there are available for the black market and the fewer will be involved in violence. It's just math.
Again, I ask, if people still get their hands on guns even with strict gun control, why don't countries with strict gun control like Sweden, Britain, Switzerland, etc. have these problems with endemic gun violence?
I can't have a rational discussion about gun control anymore.