UO

ecinereb · August 2013

spongebobsquarepanties said:

lilliesandvino said:

I think a good starting point for discussing min wage should be "can a person work ONE JOB full time at this rate and afford to live?" Like, buy groceries, pay rent, pay utilities, buy adequate clothing, and put some money into savings. People who work full time should not have to supplement with a second job to afford life's necessities.

This exactly. In many cities, there are people that work full time hours, some possibly at 2-3 jobs, and they can't afford basic necessities. It's called the working class poor. Do some volunteer work at shelters, soup kitchens or food banks and you will see that there are people who work a lot and can't afford to eat or feed their families. That isn't right. I hate how people think selfishly about poverty. If we try to raise people out of poverty, how does that affect me? Minimally. Really. How does it affect the people in that situation? Greatly. It might mean that a father gets to spend an hour or two with his kids that he wouldn't normally get because he works three jobs.

This is definitely true in my city. It is a very HCOL area. Minimum wage here is 10.25 and I don't even know how people make that work.

DH and I are both professionals and make decent money but both work more than F/T to afford our bills.

I do think that minimum wage should be liveable but I don't think people with no training/education should make as much as someone whose paid for their training/school and is now paying of loans from it.

DangerMuffin23 · August 2013

ecinereb I agree. I have like $100K in student loan debt and have never made more than $45K a year plus bonus occasionally. Some bad choices on my part that i'll have to live with forever, but i think if you went to school and have trained in a profession for 10+ years you should be paid accordingly, and if you have no experience/schooling paid accordingly. The whole system sucks and I can't offer a solution. It just blows all around.

frizby · August 2013

ecinereb said:

spongebobsquarepanties said:

lilliesandvino said:

I think a good starting point for discussing min wage should be "can a person work ONE JOB full time at this rate and afford to live?" Like, buy groceries, pay rent, pay utilities, buy adequate clothing, and put some money into savings. People who work full time should not have to supplement with a second job to afford life's necessities.

This exactly. In many cities, there are people that work full time hours, some possibly at 2-3 jobs, and they can't afford basic necessities. It's called the working class poor. Do some volunteer work at shelters, soup kitchens or food banks and you will see that there are people who work a lot and can't afford to eat or feed their families. That isn't right. I hate how people think selfishly about poverty. If we try to raise people out of poverty, how does that affect me? Minimally. Really. How does it affect the people in that situation? Greatly. It might mean that a father gets to spend an hour or two with his kids that he wouldn't normally get because he works three jobs.

This is definitely true in my city. It is a very HCOL area. Minimum wage here is 10.25 and I don't even know how people make that work.
DH and I are both professionals and make decent money but both work more than F/T to afford our bills.
I do think that minimum wage should be liveable but I don't think people with no training/education should make as much as someone whose paid for their training/school and is now paying of loans from it.

The problem is, how would that be monitored, for example, I have a 4 year degree and a certificate from the state saying I can teach k-6, but I can't find a full time teaching job, so I had to get a summer job that paid me 8.50 which is above minimum wage but not enough to live on. the people I worked with were all working on their degree but making the same as me, and we all did the same job, child care. So who should have been making more? If I were to go work at the local grocery store I'd get minimum wage, but should I get more because I'm in student loan debt and have a four year degree but can't find another job? This is a ridiculously hard situation to sort out, and I certainly wouldn't want to be the one to do it. But I do agree that minimum wage should be more, so that if you are full time you are making a livable wage.

nfp147 · August 2013

seahorse01 said:

NotMrsSmith11 said:

seahorse01 said:
Look, I am totally willing to pay more for my chicken nuggets if that's what it takes. Don't care.

What if....and I'm just spitballin' here....what if you paid the same for chicken nuggets, but the 1% paid more in taxes that could fund health care for everyone as well as lots of other programs that could help people out of poverty? Hell, I'll even pay more on my taxes for that, and I am not the 1%.

You so crazy.

I thought of another UO. I think it's a UO. Bald men? Sexy as fuck. Like I can't even stop myself from checking them out when I am with DH. He just laughs at me. For the record, DH has a full head of hair

Yes! Evan Handler (Harry from SATC) and Tom Colliccio. I would. In a second.

ecinereb · August 2013

frizby said:

ecinereb said:

spongebobsquarepanties said:

lilliesandvino said:

I think a good starting point for discussing min wage should be "can a person work ONE JOB full time at this rate and afford to live?" Like, buy groceries, pay rent, pay utilities, buy adequate clothing, and put some money into savings. People who work full time should not have to supplement with a second job to afford life's necessities.

This exactly. In many cities, there are people that work full time hours, some possibly at 2-3 jobs, and they can't afford basic necessities. It's called the working class poor. Do some volunteer work at shelters, soup kitchens or food banks and you will see that there are people who work a lot and can't afford to eat or feed their families. That isn't right. I hate how people think selfishly about poverty. If we try to raise people out of poverty, how does that affect me? Minimally. Really. How does it affect the people in that situation? Greatly. It might mean that a father gets to spend an hour or two with his kids that he wouldn't normally get because he works three jobs.

This is definitely true in my city. It is a very HCOL area. Minimum wage here is 10.25 and I don't even know how people make that work.
DH and I are both professionals and make decent money but both work more than F/T to afford our bills.
I do think that minimum wage should be liveable but I don't think people with no training/education should make as much as someone whose paid for their training/school and is now paying of loans from it.

The problem is, how would that be monitored, for example, I have a 4 year degree and a certificate from the state saying I can teach k-6, but I can't find a full time teaching job, so I had to get a summer job that paid me 8.50 which is above minimum wage but not enough to live on. the people I worked with were all working on their degree but making the same as me, and we all did the same job, child care. So who should have been making more? If I were to go work at the local grocery store I'd get minimum wage, but should I get more because I'm in student loan debt and have a four year degree but can't find another job? This is a ridiculously hard situation to sort out, and I certainly wouldn't want to be the one to do it. But I do agree that minimum wage should be more, so that if you are full time you are making a livable wage.

I agree it would be difficult to sort out/monitor. I don't think if you get a degree and then aren't working in that field it's quite the same. I think if there are too many people qualified for a job and then they can't find work that's another flaw in the system. For example, there are lots of teachers without jobs but here at least pretty much anyone can get into a teaching degree program, there are shortages in other areas but it's almost impossible to get trained to do them.

So I'm not saying you got a law degree and work at Wal-Mart as a cashier you should get paid more than other cashiers. I'm saying people that get professional degrees, working in that field deserve to get paid for the time/money put into get that designation for that job and the janitor/cashier/etc at the grocery store who barely graduated from high school should make a living wage but not as much as the person with a degree working in that degree required field.

Maybe this is my bias against all the unions here which pay grocery store cashiers and other employees high wages for jobs with no requirements.

spongebobsquarepanties · August 2013

I feel like if I were a cashier, I would be offended by this post and feel undervalued by society. We are talking about people here. There shouldn't be an obvious sense of superiority when discussing people and their employment. Every job is equally important in order for society to function. Also, just because you were afforded the opportunity to seek higher education, it doesn't mean that you are entitled to make more, nor does it mean that other people have to suffer because you feel like you deserve more.

lilliesandvino · August 2013

Minimum wage needs to be a living wage. End of story. If a living wage needs to be $12.00 per hour, so be it.

I have a shitload of education, but I make very little money because of the field I chose. I'm cool with that cause I'm happy. If someone else with less education made as much as me, good for them. Others' successes don't take away from mine.

I think everyone should watch the doc "Park Avenue". It's on Netflix.

ecinereb · August 2013

spongebobsquarepanties said:

I feel like if I were a cashier, I would be offended by this post and feel undervalued by society. We are talking about people here. There shouldn't be an obvious sense of superiority when discussing people and their employment. Every job is equally important in order for society to function. Also, just because you were afforded the opportunity to seek higher education, it doesn't mean that you are entitled to make more, nor does it mean that other people have to suffer because you feel like you deserve more.

That's why it's an UO.

spongebobsquarepanties · August 2013

ecinereb said:

spongebobsquarepanties said:

I feel like if I were a cashier, I would be offended by this post and feel undervalued by society. We are talking about people here. There shouldn't be an obvious sense of superiority when discussing people and their employment. Every job is equally important in order for society to function. Also, just because you were afforded the opportunity to seek higher education, it doesn't mean that you are entitled to make more, nor does it mean that other people have to suffer because you feel like you deserve more.

That's why it's an UO.

I'm well aware of what a uo is. Thanks, smartie pants.

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