A Past & Present 3T-er Discussion

amandaf6383 · November 2013

I want to preface this by saying that this post is meant to illicit a discussion and not debating or arguing. Okay, preface over.

I went to lunch today with a friend of mine at work who was/is 3T and tried for 2 years before conceiving and subsequently giving birth via IUI. She asked for updates on me and as I was telling her everything, including my fears, she said, "I know exactly how you feel." I smiled because I know she was trying to be supportive but her comment got me thinking.

Do you think that a person/couple remains 3T once they have a successful pregnancy resulting in a child being born? I feel like you never really become totally "fertile" vs "infertile" but I do think that it's different. For example, I don't think that my friend knows exactly how I feel. How could she? She has a baby now. She struggled, and I would never try to make her struggle seem any less, but she is now a mother. And I am stuck in the whirlwind fear of "What if I never have a child? What if I never become a mother?"

Do you think there is a difference? Or once an infertile, always an infertile?

lb1117 · November 2013

Hmm..I've thought a little bit about it. I think once you become pregnant/a mom, it changes. It doesn't erase the struggle from before. You can still empathize with and encourage those who are struggling, because you did at one point, also struggle. But, I think I get what you're saying. Once she has a child, it's not the same struggle of dealing with the emotions on a daily basis. It changes those feelings. This is obviously only true of past 3T vs current 3T.

I think it's also different when you think about people who had it easy. I still struggle sometimes when people IRL talk about how they received a surprise pregnancy or only had to try a month or two. They just seem flippant about that, and it still rubs me the wrong way. I think this is especially true in the church circle I am in though, and may not apply to other past 3Ters.

BruinsBabe33 · November 2013

I think that it depends on the person. I still have very bitter feelings towards people who are able to get pregnant easily. I remember the feelings that I had before I got pregnant and before MT got here.

I try to continue to stay supportive without using I know how you feel. Because yes, I remember those feelings, but I am not going through what you are going through. Each journey is independent. Each individual handles it in their own way.

I experienced being 3T, but now I am not TTC so I suppose I am no longer 3T. I don't know where tht leaves me.

seahorse01 · November 2013

I don't know. I like to think that if I were to magically ever acquire a child that I wouldn't forget about the IVFs and the pain we went through, but my sister did IVF and now that she has a kid through adoption she seems to remember nothing and is insensitive as fuck.

lb1117 · November 2013

seahorse01 said:

I don't know. I like to think that if I were to magically ever acquire a child that I wouldn't forget about the IVFs and the pain we went through, but my sister did IVF and now that she has a kid through adoption she seems to remember nothing and is insensitive as fuck.

I am wondering if this is based on the person. I have experience IRL both sides of this...those who remember what it was like and those who say they forget all of it.

amandaf6383 · November 2013

@BruinsBabe33 - That leaves you as one of the most amazing and supportive friends I have been blessed to have.

BruinsBabe33 · November 2013

lb1117 said:

seahorse01 said:

I don't know. I like to think that if I were to magically ever acquire a child that I wouldn't forget about the IVFs and the pain we went through, but my sister did IVF and now that she has a kid through adoption she seems to remember nothing and is insensitive as fuck.

I am wondering if this is based on the person. I have experience IRL both sides of this...those who remember what it was like and those who say they forget all of it.

Are you referring to yourself here?

islandmonkey8 · November 2013

I think that I just don't like it when people in general say "I know how you feel". IMO even if you have been through or are currently going through the exact same thing, you never know how that person is feeling. Everyone handles things differently, obviously some better than others.

I prefer if people give advice or just say they're sorry or something instead of trying to say they feel the same. I just don't think anyone can possibly feel the exact same way about something as the next person.

thecuddleeffect · November 2013

I think it's a difficult topic.
Being pregnant I know I am no longer 3T, but that being said it still sucks to hear when people get KU easily. It just a reminder that no matter what my DH and I will never get to have the experience of having a little ST and making a baby. That intimate special moment was stolen from us, and because of DHs azoo we will never have that chance.
I guess it stays with you, its just different? But by no means is it a right to be holier than thou.
I feel like she was trying to be supportive, but you are right, each journey is different and the feeling of "but will I ever be a mother" is no longer there for her.

lb1117 · November 2013

BruinsBabe33 said:

seahorse01 said:

I don't know. I like to think that if I were to magically ever acquire a child that I wouldn't forget about the IVFs and the pain we went through, but my sister did IVF and now that she has a kid through adoption she seems to remember nothing and is insensitive as fuck.

I am wondering if this is based on the person. I have experience IRL both sides of this...those who remember what it was like and those who say they forget all of it.
Are you referring to yourself here?

I wasn't referring to anyone specifically. I would hope that I am sensitive to others who are going through the same thing. Part of it, you forget and part you don't.

I have also known friends IRL who say they totally forgot all of the struggle after their baby arrived.

ETA: Sorry for the funky quotes. I don't know what I am doing wrong.

seahorse01 · November 2013

BruinsBabe33 said:

I think that it depends on the person. I still have very bitter feelings towards people who are able to get pregnant easily. I remember the feelings that I had before I got pregnant and before MT got here. I try to continue to stay supportive without using I know how you feel. Because yes, I remember those feelings, but I am not going through what you are going through. Each journey is independent. Each individual handles it in their own way. I experienced being 3T, but now I am not TTC so I suppose I am no longer 3T. I don't know where tht leaves me.

This is totally correct. You are supportive and caring and I can count on you to not be an asshole. I would hope that I would be that way.

sparklingdiamond · November 2013

I totally understand what you are saying here. Personally, I still get very bitter when I hear about people who tried for like a month and got pregnant. Those who never had to go through testing or struggle with not ovulating or really just struggle at all. It just really rubs me wrong. I still haven't forgotten how it felt to try for so long and to feel that I would never be able to get pregnant. I hope I never do forget that. And being 3T has made me even more scared that something will go wrong with the pregnancy.

CincodeMayoLove · November 2013

I totally think it depends on the person. For me, I try to not say "I know how you feel" but I do. Just because I'm pg now does not mean that I forgot how bad surprise announcements sting, nor forgot how much it sucked to not have Iui #3 not work and be faced with decisions you never thought you'd make. But some people do forget and act accordingly. I know I currently don't feel the same, but it doesnt mean I don't get it. It still stings when moms say " oh you'll get it when you have your kid" or I hear "I just stopped trying and it happened"
I won't however "know how it feels" to have weightloss affect your journey, know what it feels like to have ivf not work nor know what it's like to decide what steps if any after ivf to take, nor child loss. But I know how to be compassionate and I know that what I have been though has helped me grow in that way.

I think it depends on what a person has been through and how they have chosen to grow with their experiences. IF has totally changed me to my core.

CincodeMayoLove · November 2013

Ps great discussion @amandaf6383. I'm interested to hear more view points.

nightmare_of_beauty · November 2013

Agreed with PP, I don't like it when people say "I know how you feel" and wanted to scream at people when they said it to me. Most of everyone on here who had been through what I have said, they understood I was hurting and were here if I wanted to talk. That is a much better way to reach out to someone.

I don't think you ever become not 3T because if you decide to try to have another baby, you may struggle again.

I do feel like people forget what it is like to struggle and sometimes forget that some things shouldn't be said.

amandaf6383 · November 2013

CincodeMayoLove said:

I totally think it depends on the person. For me, I try to not say "I know how you feel" but I do. Just because I'm pg now does not mean that I forgot how bad surprise announcements sting, nor forgot how much it sucked to not have Iui #3 not work and be faced with decisions you never thought you'd make. But some people do forget and act accordingly. I know I currently don't feel the same, but it doesnt mean I don't get it. It still stings when moms say " oh you'll get it when you have your kid" or I hear "I just stopped trying and it happened" I won't however "know how it feels" to have weightloss affect your journey, know what it feels like to have ivf not work nor know what it's like to decide what steps if any after ivf to take, nor child loss. But I know how to be compassionate and I know that what I have been though has helped me grow in that way. I think it depends on what a person has been through and how they have chosen to grow with their experiences. IF has totally changed me to my core.

Totally agree.

BruinsBabe33 · November 2013

lb1117 said:

BruinsBabe33 said:

lb1117 said:

seahorse01 said:

I don't know. I like to think that if I were to magically ever acquire a child that I wouldn't forget about the IVFs and the pain we went through, but my sister did IVF and now that she has a kid through adoption she seems to remember nothing and is insensitive as fuck.

I am wondering if this is based on the person. I have experience IRL both sides of this...those who remember what it was like and those who say they forget all of it.

Are you referring to yourself here?

I wasn't referring to anyone specifically. I would hope that I am sensitive to others who are going through the same thing. Part of it, you forget and part you don't.

I have also known friends IRL who say they totally forgot all of the struggle after their baby arrived.

ETA: Sorry for the funky quotes. I don't know what I am doing wrong.

I guess I just feel that you haven't been all that sensitive. I just thought that when you got pregnant you would show the same respect to others that you had received. You used to complain about how hurtful it was to see pregnancy statuses and have your pg friends talk or vent to you and here you are doing the exact same thing to people struggling. That's just my opinion. It's just disappointing to see.

lb1117 · November 2013

BruinsBabe33 said:

BruinsBabe33 said:

seahorse01 said:

I don't know. I like to think that if I were to magically ever acquire a child that I wouldn't forget about the IVFs and the pain we went through, but my sister did IVF and now that she has a kid through adoption she seems to remember nothing and is insensitive as fuck.

I am wondering if this is based on the person. I have experience IRL both sides of this...those who remember what it was like and those who say they forget all of it.
Are you referring to yourself here?

I wasn't referring to anyone specifically. I would hope that I am sensitive to others who are going through the same thing. Part of it, you forget and part you don't.

I have also known friends IRL who say they totally forgot all of the struggle after their baby arrived.

ETA: Sorry for the funky quotes. I don't know what I am doing wrong.

I guess I just feel that you haven't been all that sensitive. I just thought that when you got pregnant you would show the same respect to others that you had received. You used to complain about how hurtful it was to see pregnancy statuses and have your pg friends talk or vent to you and here you are doing the exact same thing to people struggling. That's just my opinion. It's just disappointing to see.

Thank you for being honest. I don't want to hurt people and be insensitive. I definitely will be more aware with what I post, both here and on FB, because it is not my intention at all. Again, I am very sorry.

amccul20 · November 2013

I also think it depends on the person. I personally won't ever forget what I went through to get where I am and I still struggle with it and worry about it daily. my heart also breaks for people still struggling. I will never make a pregnancy announcement on a social media site because just the thought that someone struggling may be hurt by it bothers me.

but I do think once you get pregnant something changes. as it was said above, once you've gotten pregnant you go from on the regular thinking, I will never/what if I never have a child to at least I can get pregnant. your thought process changes and you have hope.

whether people are sensitive to others totally depends on the person.

PandPMeant2B · November 2013

I don't feel like I can have an opinion on this topic, since I'm fairly new to TTC, but I wanted to say thank you to all of you for sharing your opinions. I always try to be conscientious of things I say and you have definitely helped me see many things from a new perspective. So thank you.

nfp147 · November 2013

Experiencing TTC has taught me a lot about being sensitive to what others are going through (IF and non-IF related). This is different than getting PG and having a baby, but now that we are no longer TTC and have decided that we can live without children, I also want to be careful not to tell people "I know how they feel". Because I don't. I know that a lot of people would not be okay with the decision that DH and I have made.

seahorse01 · November 2013

PandPMeant2B said:

I don't feel like I can have an opinion on this topic, since I'm fairly new to TTC, but I wanted to say thank you to all of you for sharing your opinions. I always try to be conscientious of things I say and you have definitely helped me see many things from a new perspective. So thank you.

I think that it is really great when people gain new perspective from hanging out on this board.

When I see people come in here asking what they can send a friend who has experienced a loss I think it is nice that they are being sensitive. I am glad this board can offer that.

Having success after being 3T brings a whole new set of worries. Will my old 3T friends still want to talk to me? Will I hurt their feelings if I post on FB? It isn't an easy position to be in, even if you do get your baby at the end. It's complex and something that Resolve posts about a lot. It can be really isolating when you've spent years in a group that has one thing in common. Suddenly you don't fit in anymore. It's hard.

amandaf6383 · November 2013

I think the closest comparison I can think of would be similar to the conversation I had a few weeks ago with one of my best friends who is still single with no current prospects.

I totally remember my single life and how sometimes it was difficult and I was scared that I would be alone forever; however, I never touched upon how it has been for me, because I got to go home to Tom.

Does that make sense?

amandaf6383 · November 2013

seahorse01 said:

Having success after being 3T brings a whole new set of worries. Will my old 3T friends still want to talk to me? Will I hurt their feelings if I post on FB? It isn't an easy position to be in, even if you do get your baby at the end. It's complex and something that Resolve posts about a lot. It can be really isolating when you've spent years in a group that has one thing in common. Suddenly you don't fit in anymore. It's hard.

I love that you shared this perspective as well.

ILoveRedVino · November 2013

I think that *most* of the time, 3T graduates can't understand. While they may have had worries, when that BFP shows up, you just change. You do.

There are some exceptions. I think @carcrashheart and @cheezus still get it.

Also- I think there is a big difference between those who are 3T and those who have infertility. My definition is different.

amandaf6383 · November 2013

ILoveRedVino said:

Also- I think there is a big difference between those who are 3T and those who have infertility. My definition is different.

Do you mind sharing what the difference between the two is?

MadeOfAwesome · November 2013

amandaf6383 said:

ILoveRedVino said:

Also- I think there is a big difference between those who are 3T and those who have infertility. My definition is different.

Do you mind sharing what the difference between the two is?

With me, I was 3T, but not infertile. I DO think there is a major difference. I didn't need IVF, or donor eggs, etc. I just needed some extra help (meds) getting my body to function properly

ILoveRedVino · November 2013

amandaf6383 said:

ILoveRedVino said:

Also- I think there is a big difference between those who are 3T and those who have infertility. My definition is different.

Do you mind sharing what the difference between the two is?

I just think that (example) irregular periods don't equal infertility.

While trying for a year can make someone a 3t-er, that includes people with wonky cycles or bad timing. To me, that's not the same as someone with a dx AND meds who still isn't getting pregnant.

saralynn7 · November 2013

@seahorse01 you nailed exactly what I've been trying to put into words. I wasn't 3T as long as some or even experienced all of the extra medical needs that others have had to go through. I can still clearly recall how frustrating it was being told to "just relax" or "stop trying". I still have bitter feelings when I see my close friends become pregnant exactly when they wanted. I remember peeing in cups and little ovulation test strips to see if it was getting closer to being able to become pregnant. Those feelings and events don't go away with a baby, nor do the fears that something will go wrong or that you may have difficulty trying for a 2nd or may not even be able to have a second.

On the other hand I also won't hide the fact that I have a child or be excited as hell to see all of the things she does. I post several pictures on Facebook because family and friends have asked me to. If a friend of mine wants to hide that on Facebook I have no issue with that either. I know it hurts and I would never want to intentionally hurt someone else. I will post infertility awareness messages and it's actually led to another friendship because they were unable to talk about it with others.

I can offer compassion to others but I also would expect my friends to allow me to feel joy in my child. I hope that makes sense but I feel like it's not coming out exactly as I want it to.

amandaf6383 · November 2013

So would ovulation inducing meds and/or injects be 3T and any procedure needed (IUI/IVF/Donor Sperm/Eggs/etc) would then qualify as infertility?

MadeOfAwesome · November 2013

amandaf6383 said:

So would ovulation inducing meds and/or injects be 3T and any procedure needed (IUI/IVF/Donor Sperm/Eggs/etc) would then qualify as infertility?

I guess not necessarily... I think maybe going through all of those procedures and still not having them work would qualify as IF.

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