MMR + TTC: Family not supportive

Xstatic3333 · April 2015

The good news here is that I think literally hundreds is going to free up in your monthly budget once you stop buying lunches and severely curtail social spending. Hundreds extra can add up fast to a good baby safety net.

In my office, I am the only one who packs a lunch daily. When tempted, I ask myself, "where will these people be when my bills are due?" At this point they're used to it and its no big deal. My coworker buys a sandwich from a great local sandwich place every day, which I know to cost $8-$9 a pop, or $40 a week. For H and I, our whole grocery budget is around $75 a week (not counting a few major annual purchases, like H's meat stockpile). I've found the easiest way to do it is to just make extra dinner each night. H has to eat on the run frequently, so I make him sandwiches in the morning. Others have had great luck with the "mass cooking on Sunday" route but my Sundays always end up way too crazy. I will use some of my fun budget to join in a lunch out if it is someone's birthday or a congratulatory celebration.

Another good tip is to meal plan when you grocery shop. I make an Excel spreadsheet of everything I need for the week's dinners and lunches and their estimated costs before I go so I'm not tempted by extra stuff (I'm looking at you, fancy olives!)

I understand where you're coming from on the pressure to spend money socially. We experience this a lot as well, and honestly it didn't really get easier until we moved an hour away from most of our friends. With many of my friends, I have no clue how they afford going out for drinks 2-3 times a week. My tip here is the obvious "have people over." We do this a lot. Usually our invitations aren't reciprocated but people still keep coming here so I guess it's working for everyone. We're lucky that our new home, though nothing fancy, has a very good setup for entertaining. When H has his guy friends over, he usually profits a ton of beer that gets left behind. With my girlfriends we do potluck girls' nights, usually around a dinner theme, and usually at whoever's house has the youngest children. If we do end up in a mass dinner outing, we'll eat a little before and then just order apps. Pregnancy should have a natural effect of making many of these outings cheaper for you anyway :-P

Weekends away are a budgeting trap. You don't plan a big budget for them like a real vacation, but they still cost a ton. We try to camp for most of our weekends away, but this is a money saver ONLY if you already have the camping gear. Visiting friends works too; you can visit and then offer to cook a special dish for dinner so there is no money spent on going out. If you do need a place to stay, I'm trying to limit myself to places with kitchens. It's mind blowing how much money that saves, and I'm usually happier cooking for myself anyway. Air BnB is a great new resource for places like this. It's probably best to pause trips until you've got your buffer saved, but something to think about for the future.

OP, I'm curious, do you live in a big city? I ask because $900 for a room in shared housing doesn't sound especially cheap to me.

als1982 · April 2015

Xstatic3333 and other posters offer good advice. It sounds like you're spending a ton of money on unnecessary extras in the form of entertainment and eating out. I'd cut that down significantly ASAP. Also, I agree that paying $900 for shared living space isn't cheap. Can you find any place cheaper for just the two of you?

Also, I'd look for extra ways to bring in money. Find a good pawn shop and get rid of stuff you're no longer using. Before our wedding, we sold a pair of diamond earrings (tiny!), an old iPod and a gaming system of H's and netted nearly $1,000.

They're not yet super active in our area, but I'm also signed up for micro-job sites like Taskrabbit, Fiverr, and there are others like 3to30.com, eLance etc. An easy way for you both to make some extra income.

hoffse · April 2015

Ok so your post is not MUD - sorry, it just kind of seemed that way from our perspective. Don't know that we've ever had "I'm TTC" to "actually, I'm pregnant" from the same poster on the same day before.

It sounds like you guys can get it together, but you really do need to go back and track things.

For lunches, I have found that making a bunch of sandwiches on Sundays and then freezing them works well. Saves me time in the morning, and then all just have to grab some fruit or yogurt or something to go with it. Packing lunches takes all of 30 seconds that way. I only do a week's worth of sandwiches at a time, because then they taste completely normal (to me, at least) once they have thawed out by lunch.

I get the social pressure to spend money thing. H and I are both lawyers, and spending money seems to go hand in hand with our profession. One story I like to tell is a lawyer friend of mine who finally managed to get out of credit card debt for the first time since college, and she rewarded herself by buying her "big girl car." The big girl car was a Lexus SUV. So she immediately traded a few grand of high-interest credit card debt for $40K of lower interest debt. Obviously something didn't click with that. But to use her words, "Well lawyers are supposed to drive nice cars."

Sometimes the social stuff can't be avoided. When the managing partner of H's law firm asks him to go to lunch, H goes to lunch - even if he's brought his lunch for the day. We know to expect that sort of thing now and then, and we build it into our budget. We also build in the obligatory tickets to this event and that fundraiser, etc. We can't always say no. But then we compensate by controlling our expenses in other ways, when we can. That's why it's really important to develop a workable budget and stick to it.

dragonstarjk · April 2015

I apologize as well for thinking this is mud, and for sounding harsh, but it doesn't change my advice. You have made a few alarming comments that make me think you are not taking your financial situation very seriously. I hope that since you have determined that you are pregnant, that is a wake up call to get on track.

Do you have any credit card debt or is your only debt what you have listed? I don't think student loan debt is bad debt; in fact, H is still paying on his student loans and he's 47. However, I still strongly feel that you need to at the minimum be paying enough to cover interest.

If you have $500-700 leftover every month, is that the amount that's going towards eating out and social events? I think you need to curb this immediately and be putting this in a baby fund or in your e-fund. The baby could end up not costing that much, but I guarantee you will need those funds one way or another and you will be glad to have the money put away.

I feel like you need to be way more serious and committed. You keep saying things like 'I think we'll talk about this' or 'We're going to look at this soon'. You need to be saying 'we are going to look at our budget tomorrow and decide X, Y, and Z.'

simplyelise · April 2015

Yeah, I think the thing that set me off a bit with suspicion was that you made it sound like having a baby asap was super important to you yet contrary to that goal, you just spent 4k of the 5k you had in the bank for a vacation. Nothing wrong with a travelling, it just wasn't at all consistent with a desperate desire to start a family

There are some people on the board who are trying hard to conceive and also work on improving their financial situations. You TTC sounded like a whim that just became important to you now that you've had your fun.

sugabrat22 · April 2015

We had never been on a vacation together and wanted to have a last kind of hoorah before having a child. I realize that wasn't the best financial decision, but I guess it's been made and that's the past. We thought by NTNP that it may take awhile and we'd approach it in a laid back way.

The $500-$700 left is after our social budget/eating out. So if we cut back on the other stuff (which it turns out was a LOT spent), we should be able to have closer to $1,000 left a month. We live in a moderate living area. Each roommate pays about $475 a month. That includes internet, utilities and rent for very large home (3,500 sq ft). So it's not that much considering a small apartment wouldn't be much cheaper.

noffgurl · April 2015

I maybe shouldn't say anything, but the almost flippant way you have described TTC and finances, comes across as fake. That's why I think everyone was leaning towards MUD. Congratulations on being able to conceive so easily, I hope you now take your finances and living situation seriously now. You've been given a gift that so many of us can only dream of, please don't take it for granted.

sugabrat22 · April 2015

noffgurl said:
I maybe shouldn't say anything, but the almost flippant way you have described TTC and finances, comes across as fake. That's why I think everyone was leaning towards MUD. Congratulations on being able to conceive so easily, I hope you now take your finances and living situation seriously now. You've been given a gift that so many of us can only dream of, please don't take it for granted.

I guess you can think what you want, but I don't see why I would come on seeking drama. We haven't been the best at tracking finances and we have never had a problem paying a bill. I wouldn't say we are flippant, we just haven't been diligent about it. We both grew up in families that never made much money and struggled with finances. No one really taught us how to deal with finances and my own mother hasn't had the best track record until the past few years. We started making a really good income and consequently started living a good life. I don't know what else to say, but thanks for the advice and I guess we will figure it out on our own.

simplyelise · April 2015

You can go on vacation without spending 4000, especially if you just want a beach vacation. You could have gone to the gulf coast or carolinas for less than half of that.

But yes, that decision is in the past. I hope you stick around, we're not really mean, I promise!

Sometimes it's good to have people who you don't know (ie. not your mom) to provide a tough but honest look at your approaches to money.

noffgurl · April 2015

Like @simplyelise said, we aren't mean and we don't want you to go away. I know fully well what it's like to not have a financial role model and be smacked upside the head when you first come on here. The girls here are so smart and sweet so please just take their advice. I'm sorry for upsetting you, it wasn't my intention.

Xstatic3333 · April 2015

OP, I think I get where you're coming from. Please don't be scared off. I grew up without financial role models too; not because my parents didn't do well, but because talking about finances with me was a big no-no. We always had plenty, and they were generous with me, and when suddenly I was the one responsible for the bills I didn't tone down my lifestyle accordingly. Honestly, the way you're talking reminds me of myself a couple of years ago. Many of the other ladies here are more naturally frugal than I am, but it's still been so useful to hang out here.

jtmh2012 · April 2015

The $500-$700 left is after our social budget/eating out. So if we cut back on the other stuff (which it turns out was a LOT spent), we should be able to have closer to $1,000 left a month.

If you have "closer to $1000/month" leftover, then why are you not even making the interest payments on the loan?

Xstatic3333 · April 2015

jtmh2012 said:

The $500-$700 left is after our social budget/eating out. So if we cut back on the other stuff (which it turns out was a LOT spent), we should be able to have closer to $1,000 left a month.

If you have "closer to $1000/month" leftover, then why are you not even making the interest payments on the loan?

My guess is that he's on IBR or PAYE. I know those aren't popular around here, with good reason, but many loan servicers try to steer new borrowers right onto them these days so lots of people (at least in my social circle) end up on them if they're just going with the flow.

simplyelise · April 2015

Xstatic3333 said:

jtmh2012 said:

sugabrat22 said:

The $500-$700 left is after our social budget/eating out. So if we cut back on the other stuff (which it turns out was a LOT spent), we should be able to have closer to $1,000 left a month.
If you have "closer to $1000/month" leftover, then why are you not even making the interest payments on the loan?
My guess is that he's on IBR or PAYE. I know those aren't popular around here, with good reason, but many loan servicers try to steer new borrowers right onto them these days so lots of people (at least in my social circle) end up on them if they're just going with the flow.

It's gotta be something weird.

DH had 55k in SLs at 6.8% when we got married and was still on IBR from his 25k/year gross pay job. That IBR still serviced the interest and a little more. And unless they don't file as married, they wouldn't qualify for IBR at their income level. (Not sure what the ICR or PAYE income restrictions are?)

ETA: Spelling

Xstatic3333 · April 2015

simplyelise said:

Xstatic3333 said:

jtmh2012 said:

sugabrat22 said:

The $500-$700 left is after our social budget/eating out. So if we cut back on the other stuff (which it turns out was a LOT spent), we should be able to have closer to $1,000 left a month.
If you have "closer to $1000/month" leftover, then why are you not even making the interest payments on the loan?
My guess is that he's on IBR or PAYE. I know those aren't popular around here, with good reason, but many loan servicers try to steer new borrowers right onto them these days so lots of people (at least in my social circle) end up on them if they're just going with the flow.
It's gotta be something weird.

DH had 55k in SLs at 6.8% when we got married and was still on IBR from his 25k/year gross pay job. That IBR still serviced the interest and a little more. And unless they don't file as married, they wouldn't qualify for IBR at their income level. (Not sure what the ICR or PAYE income restrictions are?)

ETA: Spelling

I know that for our first year of marriage, H was able to stay on IBR because the paperwork was due before we filed our taxes, so they used the previous year's AGI. We weren't trying to game the system, just gave them the requested info.

Even filing as married, they might still qualify for PAYE. I would have with an $85,000 combined income and $75,000 in combined loans right out of college. My payment would have been laughably low (barely touching principle) so I didn't apply, but not everyone thinks these things through. I've actuslly known people who had their IBR/PAYE payment set at zero. Usually these are single income families with multiple kids.

That said, from what she's shared OP and H can almost certainly afford to dig into their principle. I also think the system itself is pretty broken. I just think they might have started on the lower-payment path out of going with the flow/lack of knowledge, not trying to be sketchy or find an easy way out.

hoffse · April 2015

Agreed, this is probably the most rational financial board you'll find anywhere - there's like.... no drama. It's pretty amazing, considering we're talking about money all the time. It's even more amazing when we disagree with each other - and we do disagree with each other a lot! Different people have different priorities, risk tolerance, debt aversion, etc. There's really no right answer, and I think most of us accept that what we choose to do may not work for somebody else.

Stick around, and we'll do our best to help you out. Odds are you'll get multiple opinions and viewpoints, and you can take what you like and reject what won't work for your lifestyle or goals.

The good news is that your income is high, and you definitely have something to work with here. You make a lot more than many of the posters on this board, and there are any number of ways to tweak your budget so that having a baby won't derail you financially.

Congrats on the baby, and I'm sorry I suspected MUD at first.

dragonstarjk · April 2015

sugabrat22 said:

noffgurl said:
I maybe shouldn't say anything, but the almost flippant way you have described TTC and finances, comes across as fake. That's why I think everyone was leaning towards MUD. Congratulations on being able to conceive so easily, I hope you now take your finances and living situation seriously now. You've been given a gift that so many of us can only dream of, please don't take it for granted.
I guess you can think what you want, but I don't see why I would come on seeking drama. We haven't been the best at tracking finances and we have never had a problem paying a bill. I wouldn't say we are flippant, we just haven't been diligent about it. We both grew up in families that never made much money and struggled with finances. No one really taught us how to deal with finances and my own mother hasn't had the best track record until the past few years. We started making a really good income and consequently started living a good life. I don't know what else to say, but thanks for the advice and I guess we will figure it out on our own.

Don't get freaked out and leave; you came here wanting advice, and if you have been a lurker you know you're going to get the hard, honest truth. It truly is meant to help you. Stick around, take some advice, leave the rest, get your stuff figured out, and a year from now you'll be giving the same brutally honest advice to the next newbie that comes on here

I know all too well what it is like coming from parents with poor money management skills. In my case, I was lucky and learned what NOT to do, so it has made me very vigilant about finances. My parents still to this day are terrible with budgeting; my dad has a little in a retirement account and my mom has literally nothing to her name. It is scary and sad. I don't want to see other people end up in that situation.

sugabrat22 · April 2015

We are on income based repayment and it is linked to only his income because we did not sign for each other's loans. So since his annual income is $50,000 and he owes $90,000, that's why it's such a low payment. I know we should throw more at the principle, it just hasn't been a priority. The minimum is currently around $750 a month just for his loans.

short+sassy · April 2015

Congratulations on the new baby! I hope and suspect, now that its happened, your mom will be very happy and supportive about it.

While budgeting sooner would have been helpful, at least you are making steps now to tighten up the budget and get more in control of it. Congratulations on that also .

@als1982, gave some good resources for picking up extra income that is also very flexible. I also make extra money mystery shopping (MS). It's very flexible in that you can pick and choose the assignments you want that are convenient for you. A great resource for that is Volition.com. They are a free site, with a huge forum, and have a list of almost every MS company in the U.S. All of those companies are also free to sign up to be in their shopper database.

In fact, my very first MS assignment ever, was I had to pretend to be pregnant and mystery shop a maternity clothing store. $25 fee plus a $10 reimbursement of my purchase. Ah, the memories, lol!

JoanE2012 · April 2015

sugabrat22 said:
We had never been on a vacation together and wanted to have a last kind of hoorah before having a child. I realize that wasn't the best financial decision, but I guess it's been made and that's the past. We thought by NTNP that it may take awhile and we'd approach it in a laid back way.

The $500-$700 left is after our social budget/eating out. So if we cut back on the other stuff (which it turns out was a LOT spent), we should be able to have closer to $1,000 left a month. We live in a moderate living area. Each roommate pays about $475 a month. That includes internet, utilities and rent for very large home (3,500 sq ft). So it's not that much considering a small apartment wouldn't be much cheaper.

I will apologize too for suspecting MUD.

OP - I'm curious, if you have $500-700 left over this month (and presumably other months if not living paycheck to paycheck for most), what are you doing with that extra money? A 1k emergency fund isn't that big.....you can wipe that out real fast in a true emergency. And with a child on the way, you really will want to beef that up ASAP.

My recommendation would be to cut out all eating out except for a special dinner out every other weekend on payday. Save all that money you would've spent and I bet you'll get your savings up real fast in 9 months.

MommyLiberty5013 · April 2015

I am still going to stick to my post about not having roommates with a new baby on the way and the importance of getting a place on your own. However, I realize that my post's tone did have a snarky edge to it and for that I am sorry. I hope you can accept my apology on the tone thing but see that the main point of baby with roommate doesn't really "work."

Hope you'll stick around too!

Congrats on the little one.

cbee817 · April 2015

MommyLiberty5013 said:
I am still going to stick to my post about not having roommates with a new baby on the way and the importance of getting a place on your own. However, I realize that my post's tone did have a snarky edge to it and for that I am sorry. I hope you can accept my apology on the tone thing but see that the main point of baby with roommate doesn't really "work."
Hope you'll stick around too!
Congrats on the little one.

I totally agree with you- couldn't imagine living with other people while I was pregnant and now with kids.. I like a safe/comfortable space for my family and I would never budge on that.

sillygoosegirl · April 2015

You sound extremely naive. Waiting until you are pregnant to do anything is dumb. Many women are too tired and sick the first trimester to do much other than crawl into bed after work, and the "high energy" second trimester is only high energy compared with the first trimester, it's not like you will be any more up to cooking dinner than you are now. If you are serious about having children and providing for them, start being responsible *now*, not "soon", not after you get your BFP.

Have you even started thinking about how you will pay for your maternity leave or childcare? In most of the country, childcare will run you between $1000 and $2000 per month.

MMR + TTC: Family not supportive

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