Ahh....financial woes of friends/family!

dragonstarjk · March 2016

LillibetteV said:

brij2006 said:

dragonstarjk said:

I won't even go there with my family! You all would be appalled.
I do have this co-worker who's married, who has a combined income higher than ours, and doesn't understand how we can possibly afford to travel 'all the time'. We take at least one trip a year, but lately we've been trying to make it two per year. Nothing super extravagant.
Well.....our mortgage is $800 less per month than theirs, we don't pay $100+/month for fancy smartphones, we don't pay $100+ a month for TV, and I don't get my hair and nails done all the time like she does. It's easy to figure out!

This is us. We went to Hawaii a couple of months ago. A friend made some comment how we went to Hawaii and splurged for a convertible. "Must be nice." Um, we don't have new cars, we never eat out, don't have cable, and we bought a foreclosure that needed a ton of work and still has a 1970's kitchen.
Their priorities are eating out, having brand new cars, and living in an extravagant house. Ours are to travel. I told her that she doesn't judge me and I won't judge her.

We've also had FIL make a comment because of the "toy" car we bought a few months ago. It's a Mustang, so people automatically assume it was crazy expensive. Our response to him was that we paid less for that car than he did for his pickup truck. We'll also sell it in a year or 2 and pocket the money, but he doesn't know that.

Right there with ya! Sure yellow formica is ugly - but Amsterdam during tulip season will be beautiful and we'd rather travel right now

Love this! Two years ago when we splurged and spent $10K on our 5-year anniversary trip to Hawaii, my coworker was completely baffled that we didn't use that money to build our front porch that we've always wanted (we finally built it last summer). I told her, if something happens to H and I next week, sure I'd have a nice porch, but I wouldn't have two weeks of the most amazing memories that we share together from that trip to Hawaii! It's an easy tradeoff!

short+sassy · March 2016

brij2006 said:

LillibetteV said:

brij2006 said:

dragonstarjk said:

I won't even go there with my family! You all would be appalled.
I do have this co-worker who's married, who has a combined income higher than ours, and doesn't understand how we can possibly afford to travel 'all the time'. We take at least one trip a year, but lately we've been trying to make it two per year. Nothing super extravagant.
Well.....our mortgage is $800 less per month than theirs, we don't pay $100+/month for fancy smartphones, we don't pay $100+ a month for TV, and I don't get my hair and nails done all the time like she does. It's easy to figure out!

This is us. We went to Hawaii a couple of months ago. A friend made some comment how we went to Hawaii and splurged for a convertible. "Must be nice." Um, we don't have new cars, we never eat out, don't have cable, and we bought a foreclosure that needed a ton of work and still has a 1970's kitchen.
Their priorities are eating out, having brand new cars, and living in an extravagant house. Ours are to travel. I told her that she doesn't judge me and I won't judge her.

We've also had FIL make a comment because of the "toy" car we bought a few months ago. It's a Mustang, so people automatically assume it was crazy expensive. Our response to him was that we paid less for that car than he did for his pickup truck. We'll also sell it in a year or 2 and pocket the money, but he doesn't know that.

Right there with ya! Sure yellow formica is ugly - but Amsterdam during tulip season will be beautiful and we'd rather travel right now

Exactly! Every time they're over, she asks me when we're going to remodel the kitchen. Eh, someday. I look at the $10k it's going to take to remodel it and think of all the places we could travel to for that amount.
It's the same girl who knows we're debt free and keeps asking how our budget doesn't work for me to stay home. Well, you see, we would need to forgo every bit of travel, house updates, and upgrading cars, along with extra into retirement. All of that scares us. In order for me to stay home right now, it means giving up a lot of the extra things that we find very important in our lives. Neither one of us are sure we're ready to give those up yet.

My friend...the same one who bought her house with an interest-only loan...sometimes "jokes" that I'm lucky I can buy what I buy and travel when I want because I don't have kids. And that they're broke because of their daughter. Sure, I do have more money and less bills because I don't have children. But she also CHOOSES to be a SAHM, despite the fact that this forces them to live paycheck to paycheck with no e-fund and no retirement savings plan. Her mother has even offered to watch her granddaughter for a nominal amount if my friend goes back to work. And now, that child has been old enough to go school for the last few years, but my friend pooh-poohs public schools and home schools her instead.

Thanks for letting me be judgy here, lol. I think those are horrendous choices for their circumstances, but I'm much gentler with her. Because, really, its not my business and I know that. I more, and only in response to when she is complaining about their finances, point out the advantages of her going back to work. Like much more leeway in their budget and being able to set up a college fund for their daughter.

LillibetteV · March 2016

Ugh - I HATE people that constantly tell me "well you are lucky you can afford XYZ because you don't have kids." First off, you chose to have them! So don't complain about your choices. Second of all, it takes every ounce of self control to not cry, scream, or punch them in the face because we have been trying for so long and would love to be broke because we have kids instead. And third - nothing I can afford in life is due to luck! I don't have an inheritance, or a trust fund, and I sure didn't win the lottery. I bust my butt off!

short+sassy · March 2016

LillibetteV said:

Ugh - I HATE people that constantly tell me "well you are lucky you can afford XYZ because you don't have kids." First off, you chose to have them! So don't complain about your choices. Second of all, it takes every ounce of self control to not cry, scream, or punch them in the face because we have been trying for so long and would love to be broke because we have kids instead. And third - nothing I can afford in life is due to luck! I don't have an inheritance, or a trust fund, and I sure didn't win the lottery. I bust my butt off!

First bolded, I'm so sorry to hear that. This is a perfect example of why it can be crushing to say this to someone, if you don't know their story. To give credit to my friend, I am childless by choice and she knows that.

Second bolded, I know, right!!! I work a f/t and p/t job. I also mystery shop on the side. I've told my SAHM friend she should get into mystery shopping because it's flexible, she can do most assignments with her daughter, and it's a fairly easy way to earn $100+/month. But, she can't even be bothered to do that. So, okay then.

And obviously, obviously. There are plenty of people who don't have children, don't budget, and still live paycheck to paycheck. There are also plenty of people who have children along with a fully funded e-fund, college savings, and retirement savings. Children do have an impact on finances, I'm certainly not saying they don't. But making smart choices, thinking ahead instead of for the moment, and spending wisely have a far greater impact.

brij2006 · March 2016

LillibetteV said:

Ugh - I HATE people that constantly tell me "well you are lucky you can afford XYZ because you don't have kids." First off, you chose to have them! So don't complain about your choices. Second of all, it takes every ounce of self control to not cry, scream, or punch them in the face because we have been trying for so long and would love to be broke because we have kids instead. And third - nothing I can afford in life is due to luck! I don't have an inheritance, or a trust fund, and I sure didn't win the lottery. I bust my butt off!

I am so sorry you are experiencing this. Infertility is a rough road and full of so much heart ache and heartbreak.

When people ask us why we got on the Dave Ramsey plan and cut everything, it was hard not to tell them the truth. That we didn't have fertility coverage on our insurance and we couldn't afford to pay the thousands out of pocket for a treatment. Infertility was the reason we decided to get out of debt. Our student loan and car payments were hindering our ability to save up money for a treatment.

We have been very blessed with our daughter during that process and from doing an insane diet to try and combat PCOS (I was grasping at straws before moving forward with more treatment). However, now we are going down the IF road again and are looking at what all we can cut from our budget so we can afford to see the RE and begin all of the testing and treatment again. It sucks. As much as I wish we could make decisions based on what we want to do, we have to make decisions based on what we need in order to grow our family. All while our family and friends are pressuring us about having another or don't understand why I haven't quit my job now that we have no debt.

KatieCutie05 · March 2016

We have just about given up with our families understanding logic.

My MIL convince BIL that he needed to buy life insurance now because its cheaper when he's young. (he lives at home, not married) So she had him go meet with this insurance guy. H tried to get a hold of him before the meeting but couldnt so he talked to him after. This guy talked him into paying like 80 dollars a month for a 200,000 whole life policy and H tried so hard to talk him out of it after but gave up because we could tell he was just repeating back what this sales guy sold him. i mean please i pay 18 dollars a month for 400k but thats such a horrible plan because its only 20 years. oh paleeze. if i need that much coverage when im 80- we have bigger problems.

Then unrelated my FIL tried to convince us the great deal he got by trading in his truck for a brand new one because his "payments are the same". Considering most of his family does leases because they are "cheaper because you get a lower payment"... this is sadly a step up.

we sent my sister the TMMO book and they pushed it to the side and were offended because "this would be great if we had money"

my other sister takes advantage of my other sister and pays her 1k a month to nanny for her 3 kids under 2 because she cant afford anything more. and then they go on vacation multiple times a year, go out to eat all the time to restaurants i cant afford to even step in, and then i hear they are 3 months behind on their mortgage and they gotta quick pay their car because its about to be repossessed.

You can't fix stupid.

vlagrl29 · March 2016

I think kids can be as expensive as you make them - ya know? We only have 1 kid and I SAH with her full time, but also own a part time business because I DON'T like living paycheck to paycheck. It helps me sleep better at night. We currently have her enrolled in PreK ($160 a month), Dance ($49 a month), and Violin ($34 a month). Come summer we don't have to pay for preK any more and she has summers off of Dance, but we will be going to the pool more often. Then when she starts K in the fall she will probably have to pick either dance OR violin because I worry she may wear herself thin and she has all of her life to do that.

Also, I believe there is a balance you can achieve between having enough money and enjoying life - I wouldn't want to be working myself to exhaustion just so we can fund our kids college because we can't and won't. To me enjoying life and making memories with my family is much more important than spreading myself thin. I've had several family members die within a 2 year time frame back in 2006-2008. What does money mean if you don't have that person.

julieanne912 · March 2016

vlagrl29 said:

I think kids can be as expensive as you make them - ya know? We only have 1 kid and I SAH with her full time, but also own a part time business because I DON'T like living paycheck to paycheck. It helps me sleep better at night. We currently have her enrolled in PreK ($160 a month), Dance ($49 a month), and Violin ($34 a month). Come summer we don't have to pay for preK any more and she has summers off of Dance, but we will be going to the pool more often. Then when she starts K in the fall she will probably have to pick either dance OR violin because I worry she may wear herself thin and she has all of her life to do that.

Also, I believe there is a balance you can achieve between having enough money and enjoying life - I wouldn't want to be working myself to exhaustion just so we can fund our kids college because we can't and won't. To me enjoying life and making memories with my family is much more important than spreading myself thin. I've had several family members die within a 2 year time frame back in 2006-2008. What does money mean if you don't have that person.

I think we've discussed this on here before, but kids get VERY expensive once you throw childcare into the mix. Not everyone can or wants to stay at home full time. I know for me, it would make zero financial sense to stay at home, since my monthly earnings are over double what infant daycare would cost, and the cost of living here is on the high side. Also, around here, preschool/pre-K is even expensive. My boss has her kid in a 3 day a week all day preschool and it's $500/month...and it's not a fancy Montessori or anything like that, pretty much your basic preschool. For him to go to full day kindergarten next year (instead of just half day), she has to pay $300/month, to the public school he'll be going to. That doesn't even count stuff like sports they may want to play as they get older, and the costs of going to even public schools since they ask the parents to pay for so much of it these days.

I know for me, while sometimes I think staying home would be nice, but what would I do after the kid starts school full time? Once you have a career going, at least in my industry, it's very hard to start where you left off after taking 5 years off. That is the issue for a lot of women.

formerlyGDaisy09 · March 2016

julieanne912 said:

vlagrl29 said:

I think kids can be as expensive as you make them - ya know? We only have 1 kid and I SAH with her full time, but also own a part time business because I DON'T like living paycheck to paycheck. It helps me sleep better at night. We currently have her enrolled in PreK ($160 a month), Dance ($49 a month), and Violin ($34 a month). Come summer we don't have to pay for preK any more and she has summers off of Dance, but we will be going to the pool more often. Then when she starts K in the fall she will probably have to pick either dance OR violin because I worry she may wear herself thin and she has all of her life to do that.

Also, I believe there is a balance you can achieve between having enough money and enjoying life - I wouldn't want to be working myself to exhaustion just so we can fund our kids college because we can't and won't. To me enjoying life and making memories with my family is much more important than spreading myself thin. I've had several family members die within a 2 year time frame back in 2006-2008. What does money mean if you don't have that person.

I think we've discussed this on here before, but kids get VERY expensive once you throw childcare into the mix. Not everyone can or wants to stay at home full time. I know for me, it would make zero financial sense to stay at home, since my monthly earnings are over double what infant daycare would cost, and the cost of living here is on the high side. Also, around here, preschool/pre-K is even expensive. My boss has her kid in a 3 day a week all day preschool and it's $500/month...and it's not a fancy Montessori or anything like that, pretty much your basic preschool. For him to go to full day kindergarten next year (instead of just half day), she has to pay $300/month, to the public school he'll be going to. That doesn't even count stuff like sports they may want to play as they get older, and the costs of going to even public schools since they ask the parents to pay for so much of it these days.

I know for me, while sometimes I think staying home would be nice, but what would I do after the kid starts school full time? Once you have a career going, at least in my industry, it's very hard to start where you left off after taking 5 years off. That is the issue for a lot of women.

unless the cost of daycare is actually higher than your take home salary and benefits staying home is a life-style choice(perhaps one you have to save for), not a financial one. 3 day a week daycare in our area is $850-1000+ a month. I have yet to track down a full-time daycare that is less than $1,200 a month, and I wouldn't even consider sending DD to the one I found for $1,200. Fortunately H and I are on opposite shifts and can tag-team care right now (terrible for our relationship, but great for our bank account), but we are looking at the possibility of needing daycare if he gets one of the positions he recently interviewed for.

bmo88 · March 2016

formerlyGDaisy09 said:

julieanne912 said:

vlagrl29 said:

I think kids can be as expensive as you make them - ya know? We only have 1 kid and I SAH with her full time, but also own a part time business because I DON'T like living paycheck to paycheck. It helps me sleep better at night. We currently have her enrolled in PreK ($160 a month), Dance ($49 a month), and Violin ($34 a month). Come summer we don't have to pay for preK any more and she has summers off of Dance, but we will be going to the pool more often. Then when she starts K in the fall she will probably have to pick either dance OR violin because I worry she may wear herself thin and she has all of her life to do that.

Also, I believe there is a balance you can achieve between having enough money and enjoying life - I wouldn't want to be working myself to exhaustion just so we can fund our kids college because we can't and won't. To me enjoying life and making memories with my family is much more important than spreading myself thin. I've had several family members die within a 2 year time frame back in 2006-2008. What does money mean if you don't have that person.

I think we've discussed this on here before, but kids get VERY expensive once you throw childcare into the mix. Not everyone can or wants to stay at home full time. I know for me, it would make zero financial sense to stay at home, since my monthly earnings are over double what infant daycare would cost, and the cost of living here is on the high side. Also, around here, preschool/pre-K is even expensive. My boss has her kid in a 3 day a week all day preschool and it's $500/month...and it's not a fancy Montessori or anything like that, pretty much your basic preschool. For him to go to full day kindergarten next year (instead of just half day), she has to pay $300/month, to the public school he'll be going to. That doesn't even count stuff like sports they may want to play as they get older, and the costs of going to even public schools since they ask the parents to pay for so much of it these days.

I know for me, while sometimes I think staying home would be nice, but what would I do after the kid starts school full time? Once you have a career going, at least in my industry, it's very hard to start where you left off after taking 5 years off. That is the issue for a lot of women.

unless the cost of daycare is actually higher than your take home salary and benefits staying home is a life-style choice(perhaps one you have to save for), not a financial one. 3 day a week daycare in our area is $850-1000+ a month. I have yet to track down a full-time daycare that is less than $1,200 a month, and I wouldn't even consider sending DD to the one I found for $1,200. Fortunately H and I are on opposite shifts and can tag-team care right now (terrible for our relationship, but great for our bank account), but we are looking at the possibility of needing daycare if he gets one of the positions he recently interviewed for.

I agree. I hate when people say kids don't have to be expensive. That simply isn't always true. In our area, the cheapest full time daycare is $1,100 a month. If one of us didn't work, we would give up a lot of money. So that wouldn't make sense.

We estimate that the first year of a child's life will cost at least $18,000. That is just health insurance, OOP max, childcare and basic items (not including a nursery or monthly diaper expenses).

ETA: Make that closer to $20,000. I forgot our works insurance plan is changing in August (we work at the same place) and adding a dependent will be $300 a month.

julieanne912 · March 2016

formerlyGDaisy09 said:

julieanne912 said:

vlagrl29 said:

I think kids can be as expensive as you make them - ya know? We only have 1 kid and I SAH with her full time, but also own a part time business because I DON'T like living paycheck to paycheck. It helps me sleep better at night. We currently have her enrolled in PreK ($160 a month), Dance ($49 a month), and Violin ($34 a month). Come summer we don't have to pay for preK any more and she has summers off of Dance, but we will be going to the pool more often. Then when she starts K in the fall she will probably have to pick either dance OR violin because I worry she may wear herself thin and she has all of her life to do that.

Also, I believe there is a balance you can achieve between having enough money and enjoying life - I wouldn't want to be working myself to exhaustion just so we can fund our kids college because we can't and won't. To me enjoying life and making memories with my family is much more important than spreading myself thin. I've had several family members die within a 2 year time frame back in 2006-2008. What does money mean if you don't have that person.

I think we've discussed this on here before, but kids get VERY expensive once you throw childcare into the mix. Not everyone can or wants to stay at home full time. I know for me, it would make zero financial sense to stay at home, since my monthly earnings are over double what infant daycare would cost, and the cost of living here is on the high side. Also, around here, preschool/pre-K is even expensive. My boss has her kid in a 3 day a week all day preschool and it's $500/month...and it's not a fancy Montessori or anything like that, pretty much your basic preschool. For him to go to full day kindergarten next year (instead of just half day), she has to pay $300/month, to the public school he'll be going to. That doesn't even count stuff like sports they may want to play as they get older, and the costs of going to even public schools since they ask the parents to pay for so much of it these days.

I know for me, while sometimes I think staying home would be nice, but what would I do after the kid starts school full time? Once you have a career going, at least in my industry, it's very hard to start where you left off after taking 5 years off. That is the issue for a lot of women.

unless the cost of daycare is actually higher than your take home salary and benefits staying home is a life-style choice(perhaps one you have to save for), not a financial one. 3 day a week daycare in our area is $850-1000+ a month. I have yet to track down a full-time daycare that is less than $1,200 a month, and I wouldn't even consider sending DD to the one I found for $1,200. Fortunately H and I are on opposite shifts and can tag-team care right now (terrible for our relationship, but great for our bank account), but we are looking at the possibility of needing daycare if he gets one of the positions he recently interviewed for.

Oh yeah, I forgot about benefits. My company offers some very affordable "add on" insurance for a dependent, and the deductible goes up to $5,000 from $2,500, so not totally terrible. H's company is very expensive to add anybody on for both premiums and for the rise in deductible. Since he gets expensive medical treatments he hits his deductible by February. If we added me and/or a kid on, he wouldn't hit it until June or July, so we're talking tons of extra money out of pocket.

My company offers a discount at Kindercare, which is probably middle of the road in terms of care. It's still just under $1100/month at the one I called to get an idea of pricing. It's so ridiculous... a friend pays $700/month for 3 days a week at an in-home unlicensed daycare. The provider there takes excellent care of her son (she's a former teacher), so being unlicensed isn't terrible, but still...

LillibetteV · March 2016

I don't have kids yet, but my friend (and neighbor) told me what she spends on day care in our city and it's over $1500/month. For 4 days. All of your options sound so cheap to me! Luckily our health insurance is already a "family" plan so our premiums won't go up when we add kids, but the annual deductible will be higher.

vlagrl29 · March 2016

formerlyGDaisy09 said:

julieanne912 said:

vlagrl29 said:

I think kids can be as expensive as you make them - ya know? We only have 1 kid and I SAH with her full time, but also own a part time business because I DON'T like living paycheck to paycheck. It helps me sleep better at night. We currently have her enrolled in PreK ($160 a month), Dance ($49 a month), and Violin ($34 a month). Come summer we don't have to pay for preK any more and she has summers off of Dance, but we will be going to the pool more often. Then when she starts K in the fall she will probably have to pick either dance OR violin because I worry she may wear herself thin and she has all of her life to do that.

Also, I believe there is a balance you can achieve between having enough money and enjoying life - I wouldn't want to be working myself to exhaustion just so we can fund our kids college because we can't and won't. To me enjoying life and making memories with my family is much more important than spreading myself thin. I've had several family members die within a 2 year time frame back in 2006-2008. What does money mean if you don't have that person.

I think we've discussed this on here before, but kids get VERY expensive once you throw childcare into the mix. Not everyone can or wants to stay at home full time. I know for me, it would make zero financial sense to stay at home, since my monthly earnings are over double what infant daycare would cost, and the cost of living here is on the high side. Also, around here, preschool/pre-K is even expensive. My boss has her kid in a 3 day a week all day preschool and it's $500/month...and it's not a fancy Montessori or anything like that, pretty much your basic preschool. For him to go to full day kindergarten next year (instead of just half day), she has to pay $300/month, to the public school he'll be going to. That doesn't even count stuff like sports they may want to play as they get older, and the costs of going to even public schools since they ask the parents to pay for so much of it these days.

I know for me, while sometimes I think staying home would be nice, but what would I do after the kid starts school full time? Once you have a career going, at least in my industry, it's very hard to start where you left off after taking 5 years off. That is the issue for a lot of women.

unless the cost of daycare is actually higher than your take home salary and benefits staying home is a life-style choice(perhaps one you have to save for), not a financial one. 3 day a week daycare in our area is $850-1000+ a month. I have yet to track down a full-time daycare that is less than $1,200 a month, and I wouldn't even consider sending DD to the one I found for $1,200. Fortunately H and I are on opposite shifts and can tag-team care right now (terrible for our relationship, but great for our bank account), but we are looking at the possibility of needing daycare if he gets one of the positions he recently interviewed for.

Also, I was replying to the PP that was talking about a SAHM friend she has that complains about her kids being expensive.

If you take out the childcare cost and if the kid is healthy I really don't think they are that expensive. That's just me though. I personally could never find a corporate job that would pay more than what child care cost is.

hoffse · March 2016

Yeah we're looking at $950/month for full-time care - H's firm has a corporate sponsorship rate with a very good local daycare (thank god), so we will be eligible for a slightly lower rate

Then health insurance is going to quadruple. We'll be looking at around $550/month, and that's for the HDHP plan with a $5,000 deductible. Joy.

So our basic starting point is $18,000/year. That's before we have changed a single diaper.

H and I also feel strongly about helping with college.

We also think extracurriculars are really important as they get a little older - preferably something that gives them exercise and also something to engage their creative side (however that manifests itself).

So yeah, we are just assuming $24K/year for budgeting purposes to account for insurance+childcare+everything else. We understand that it's probably going to be higher than that some years.

All this being said, we won't complain about it. I agree that if you choose to have a kid, then you have also chosen to pay for the kid.

bmo88 · March 2016

hoffse said:

Yeah we're looking at $950/month for full-time care - H's firm has a corporate sponsorship rate with a very good local daycare (thank god), so we will be eligible for a slightly lower rate

Then health insurance is going to quadruple. We'll be looking at around $550/month, and that's for the HDHP plan with a $5,000 deductible. Joy.

So our basic starting point is $18,000/year. That's before we have changed a single diaper.

H and I also feel strongly about helping with college.

We also think extracurriculars are really important as they get a little older - preferably something that gives them exercise and also something to engage their creative side (however that manifests itself).

So yeah, we are just assuming $24K/year for budgeting purposes to account for insurance+childcare+everything else. We understand that it's probably going to be higher than that some years.

All this being said, we won't complain about it. I agree that if you choose to have a kid, then you have also chosen to pay for the kid.

I agree, not complaining about the costs by any means because it is a choice. That's why we are waiting to TTC and planning financially for it. Its more noting that kids do cost a lot of money, regardless of a lot of claims. Even if one chooses not to work because it makes financial sense to stay home, they are foregoing income.

formerlyGDaisy09 · March 2016

hoffse said:

Yeah we're looking at $950/month for full-time care - H's firm has a corporate sponsorship rate with a very good local daycare (thank god), so we will be eligible for a slightly lower rate

Then health insurance is going to quadruple. We'll be looking at around $550/month, and that's for the HDHP plan with a $5,000 deductible. Joy.

So our basic starting point is $18,000/year. That's before we have changed a single diaper.

H and I also feel strongly about helping with college.

We also think extracurriculars are really important as they get a little older - preferably something that gives them exercise and also something to engage their creative side (however that manifests itself).

So yeah, we are just assuming $24K/year for budgeting purposes to account for insurance+childcare+everything else. We understand that it's probably going to be higher than that some years.

All this being said, we won't complain about it. I agree that if you choose to have a kid, then you have also chosen to pay for the kid.

Yes to all this...this is what life is about. and this is one of those places where it isn't always about the money.

I will say that on the diaper front we've saved a ton by cloth diapering! I think right now (at 4 months old) we're just about at the break-even point for cloth versus disposables, and I'm including the cost of more expensive disposables we buy for overnight and outtings (I pay more for the Honest Company diapers because they're made with fewer chemicals...and they're adorable). I love our cloth diapers so much I'm mre than willing to chat about what it involves with anyone with diapered LOs or thinking about TTC.

I'm also planning to make baby purees from scratch.

Outside of all that, the investment in equiptment in the first year is real, plus you buy things with the best intentions and then discover later that they don't work as well as you hoped and end-up buying something different. Or you buy extras of things you love, because sometimes as a new parent easy trumps all! (two sets of breast pump parts so you're not constantly doing dishes, two stretchy babywearers because when one gets dirty you need a back-up). I think we're finally down to only needing(wanting? that need/want line gets blurry) an exersaucer of some kind (new range from $50-100+) I've got my eyes on the online yardsales for a deal.

vlagrl29 · March 2016

formerlyGDaisy09 said:

hoffse said:

Yeah we're looking at $950/month for full-time care - H's firm has a corporate sponsorship rate with a very good local daycare (thank god), so we will be eligible for a slightly lower rate

Then health insurance is going to quadruple. We'll be looking at around $550/month, and that's for the HDHP plan with a $5,000 deductible. Joy.

So our basic starting point is $18,000/year. That's before we have changed a single diaper.

H and I also feel strongly about helping with college.

We also think extracurriculars are really important as they get a little older - preferably something that gives them exercise and also something to engage their creative side (however that manifests itself).

So yeah, we are just assuming $24K/year for budgeting purposes to account for insurance+childcare+everything else. We understand that it's probably going to be higher than that some years.

All this being said, we won't complain about it. I agree that if you choose to have a kid, then you have also chosen to pay for the kid.

Yes to all this...this is what life is about. and this is one of those places where it isn't always about the money.

I will say that on the diaper front we've saved a ton by cloth diapering! I think right now (at 4 months old) we're just about at the break-even point for cloth versus disposables, and I'm including the cost of more expensive disposables we buy for overnight and outtings (I pay more for the Honest Company diapers because they're made with fewer chemicals...and they're adorable). I love our cloth diapers so much I'm mre than willing to chat about what it involves with anyone with diapered LOs or thinking about TTC.

I'm also planning to make baby purees from scratch.

Outside of all that, the investment in equiptment in the first year is real, plus you buy things with the best intentions and then discover later that they don't work as well as you hoped and end-up buying something different. Or you buy extras of things you love, because sometimes as a new parent easy trumps all! (two sets of breast pump parts so you're not constantly doing dishes, two stretchy babywearers because when one gets dirty you need a back-up). I think we're finally down to only needing(wanting? that need/want line gets blurry) an exersaucer of some kind (new range from $50-100+) I've got my eyes on the online yardsales for a deal.

We got an exersaucer for DD for $5 on CL

hoffse · March 2016

I wish we could CD any hypothetical children we hopefully have someday - unfortunately, Alabama law prohibits it in daycares. Not even joking, I looked it up a few months ago.

So I'm not sure it's going to be worth investing in a CD system, given that we will have to use disposables whenever we are working - which is going to be most days.

Back on the original topic, I get annoyed when people act like H and I are abundantly wealthy because we prioritize our spending differently than they do. I honestly get it from partners who probably make 4 times what I make. It's not fair to act jealous when it's really a matter of differing priorities.

I mean, one of our associates who is two years behind me and single drives a Lexus SUV. Do I wish I had a Lexus SUV? Yes. I love how they look, and I enjoy riding in them. She even picked the color I would pick, and I secretly covet her car.

But until I'm willing to sacrifice other things in life to afford that kind of car, I'm not going to get it.

What's funny is the same people who criticize me for being too cheap also act jealous that we can afford to travel. Ummm.... yeah. That's because as much as I want a really fancy house, I want to vacation more.

formerlyGDaisy09 · March 2016

hoffse said:

I wish we could CD any hypothetical children we hopefully have someday - unfortunately, Alabama law prohibits it in daycares. Not even joking, I looked it up a few months ago.

So I'm not sure it's going to be worth investing in a CD system, given that we will have to use disposables whenever we are working - which is going to be most days.

Back on the original topic, I get annoyed when people act like H and I are abundantly wealthy because we prioritize our spending differently than they do. I honestly get it from partners who probably make 4 times what I make. It's not fair to act jealous when it's really a matter of differing priorities.

I mean, one of our associates who is two years behind me and single drives a Lexus SUV. Do I wish I had a Lexus SUV? Yes. I love how they look, and I enjoy riding in them. She even picked the color I would pick, and I secretly covet her car.

But until I'm willing to sacrifice other things in life to afford that kind of car, I'm not going to get it.

What's funny is the same people who criticize me for being too cheap also act jealous that we can afford to travel. Ummm.... yeah. That's because as much as I want a really fancy house, I want to vacation more.

That is absolutely ridiculous! I wonder what the rationale is? hygiene? there are daycares here that won't CD and most require all-in-ones or all-in-twos. You could set-yourself up with plenty of prefolds and covers to go from infant through potty training for about $150...if you wanted to CD on weekends and in the evenings to save yourself 20-30 disposables a week.

And you're 100% right about priorities. I mean this board does get a little judgy of people who might choose to take the slow approach to paying off debt, or who make choices to buy nicer cars, etc. I mean there are some obvious bad financial choices (buying too much car/house or taking on more debt than you can handle) but ultimately everyone has their own priorities, and sometime judging and jealousy come down to wishing that you could afford to do everything.

brij2006 · March 2016

Kids really are as expensive as you want to make them. There are a ton of different daycare, health insurance, diapering, and gear options. You can spend $5 on a used stroller or $500 on one top of the line. $300/month for a stay at home mom to watch your child, or $1,000 for a center (obviously these numbers vary depending on area). It really is all about how much YOU want to spend on a child.

We kept saying that we wouldn't be able to afford kids until our student loans were gone. When we started TTC, we had a miscarriage after a fertility treatment. During that short time we were pregnant, we were both freaking out that there was no way we could afford that child. We were looking at a $350 nice jogging stroller, $1,000/month for daycare at a center, a $15k car for H because his was a 2 door at the time. That's when we started TMMO and unfortunately we lost that baby. When we had DD, 1 year later, we went very minimal on a ton of stuff. The only brand new thing she had was the car seat. I bought everything for the nursery for a total of $75. We sold H's 2 door car and bought a 4 door beater for $3k (and got rid of that payment). We also went with a stay at home mom for childcare and she costs us $500/month and is beyond amazing. I tried so so so hard to breastfeed and did everything it took and made a ton of sacrifices to do so until 1 year, and we also cloth diaper (I bought all of them used).

Kids really are as expensive as you want to make them, and it's really easy to fall into the trap of wants/needs when it comes to buying for your kids. As far as staying home, that can be a lifestyle decision for a lot of families. We still feel like we don't keep up with life with us both being career parents, and I would love to stay home with DD. Even though financially it would be very tight and mean us making a ton of sacrifices in order to do so, but right now we don't feel like we have any sort of family life because of it. Yet after child care, I bring home roughly $2,000+ each month.

The best advice we ever received was that we would never be financially ready enough for kids, so to go for it whenever we were both ready. I used to never understand why broke people would have kids, and I remember questioning our very good friends about it after they told us they were TTC. I thought they were nuts because they were barely making ends meet as it was. But it's true that if you wait till you're financially prepared for a child, it may never happen. Most will make whatever sacrifices it takes to make the money work with a child. No matter how much debt there is or how much income there is or is not. 3 year ago me, in debt up to her eyeballs, and with a very successful career, was too proud to not put my child in that $1,000/month daycare and wanted my H to have a $15k 4 door car to put our child in. We were most definitely not financially ready when we started TTC, but it was the best decision we ever made. It's funny how you will make things work when you have to.

This is getting long, but I wanted to touch on that in case anyone was lurking and thinking from this thread that they needed to have a ton of money in order to have a child.

formerlyGDaisy09 · March 2016

I think daycare is one of the few places I'm not willing to make decisions purely based on cost (carseats would be the other). There have been several deaths in our community at unlicensed in home daycares (and two at licensed places), that's not a risk I'm willing to take. Just 3 weeks ago a 3 year old died in a home daycare, it was tragic and was all over the local papers. I'd rather go broke paying $1,500 a month for a licensed center with plenty of caregivers than pinch pennies and put DD at risk. And that's where the kids are only as expensive as you make them argument gets lost on me; when safety starts becoming part of the compromise.

short+sassy · March 2016

formerlyGDaisy09 said:

I think daycare is one of the few places I'm not willing to make decisions purely based on cost (carseats would be the other). There have been several deaths in our community at unlicensed in home daycares (and two at licensed places), that's not a risk I'm willing to take. Just 3 weeks ago a 3 year old died in a home daycare, it was tragic and was all over the local papers. I'd rather go broke paying $1,500 a month for a licensed center with plenty of caregivers than pinch pennies and put DD at risk. And that's where the kids are only as expensive as you make them argument gets lost on me; when safety starts becoming part of the compromise.

Whoa! That's shocking.

Not nearly as bad as that, but there is a daycare I pass every day on my way to work. It made minor local news a few months ago because the owner and one of her employees got into a fist fight. And it happened in the morning, right when parents were bringing their kids in. Charming.

hoffse · March 2016

formerlyGDaisy09 said:

I think daycare is one of the few places I'm not willing to make decisions purely based on cost (carseats would be the other). There have been several deaths in our community at unlicensed in home daycares (and two at licensed places), that's not a risk I'm willing to take. Just 3 weeks ago a 3 year old died in a home daycare, it was tragic and was all over the local papers. I'd rather go broke paying $1,500 a month for a licensed center with plenty of caregivers than pinch pennies and put DD at risk. And that's where the kids are only as expensive as you make them argument gets lost on me; when safety starts becoming part of the compromise.

Yeah I'm with you on that. Obviously in-home stuff can be totally fine if there is a qualified provider nearby, but saving the money just wouldn't be worth it to me.

We had a tragic event recently where an infant died in a licensed center. It was entirely preventable too - he was placed in a crib with blankets, and he rolled over into them and suffocated. It's horrible. That daycare had received citations in the past for having too many kids per caregiver, and this is exactly the sort of thing that the licensing rules are trying to prevent. If there are too many kids, adults get distracted and then preventable mistakes happen.

There's one place that everybody tries to get into around here. It's pretty cool, because it's run by Auburn University. They do the standard care-giving stuff of course, but all the kids who attend are also part of the early childhood education program through AU. Parents actually have to sign waivers permitting their kids to be part of studies, research, etc. into early childhood development. The result is you have a really good early education program, and there also tends to be a lot more adults around than what you find at most daycare centers. It's one of the more expensive places in town, but 1000% worth it IMO.

Safety aside, the parents we know who have kids there say that many of the kids start to read before Kindergarten. A lot of them can also do some very basic math and can count to high numbers before Kindergarten. They also have a music and visual art program. None of it is forced, but if kids show an aptitude for language or math or art at an early age, the teachers work with them individually. I find a lot of value in that.

bmo88 · March 2016

formerlyGDaisy09: I agree. I wouldn't compromise on safety to save money. Sure, sometimes you can find a quality childcare provider that is also cheap, but that is quite rare. If my parents move here in the next few years, we would use my mom. She is currently a licensed pre-school teacher and has run licensed in-home daycares before. She has offered to open an in-home daycare here if we have children and only charge us around $500 a month (which is about $600 less than most child care facilities here. This would be the only situation I would be comfortable "saving money" because I know and trust my mother. If for some reason this isn't an option, we would not go with a cheaper provider who isn't licensed.

Xstatic3333 · March 2016

Sadly, I think both good and bad daycare situations can be found at every price point. My first job out of college was at a daycare in a wealthy suburb that had a great reputation and was very expensive. If I'm remembering correctly, it was $1,400 a month for three year olds, so it would have been much higher for infants. At the time, I was planning on a career in early childhood education, and chose it over multiple job offers because I loved the play-based educational philosophy. Many teachers there were great, and usually things went fine, but some things that happened there make my skin crawl to think about. I learned, for example, well after the fact or I would have felt obligated to intervene, that a couple of the infant room teachers would occasionally go for drinks on their lunch break, and frequently smoke pot on their lunch breaks. Many of the younger teachers were also much more focused on drama than the kids. I couldn't feel comfortable sending kids of my own there.

For my own kids, I'll definitely do some searching for a high quality, licensed in-home center. I have a good idea in what I want from a childcare provider and what types of questions I will ask. My biggest priority, after safety, is a focus on play over drilling academics too early. For our pre-baby budget, I'm using local center rates in case we can't find an in-home situation that works well for us. I'd also look into a nanny share, although I'm not really sure how to go about that since none of our friends with kids live in our city.

Disclaimer: Since I'm not a parent yet, I know and recognize that much of what I say I want now could go right out the window

PurpleBookmark · March 2016

When we had our first child we made the lifestyle choice to have me stay at home with him. At that point I would have brought home a very small amount after paying for daycare if I had continued working. With two additional children it is now definitely both a lifestyle and a budget choice as it would be impossible for us to afford care for 3 kids. I was a legal secretary as well so we weren't losing out on a high salary and also I believe I should be able to jump back into my field without too much trouble when the time comes.

I did want to say to though that some of my friends and family sent their kids to some excellent in home daycare places and have had wonderful experiences. I think it's all about finding the right fit, you might click with a large center or a person who just babysits one or two extra kids along with their children.

I am kind of interested in working at a center in the future as I love helping with the babies at the church nursery. I'm not sure what kind of experience/education you need though, I've only parented my own kids and my schooling is in paralegal.

ThinkingCapital · March 2016

It was nice of you to take the time to explain your thoughts but, unfortunately, that's all you can do. If she chooses not to listen, it's unfortunate, but you can't do more than you've already done. Trying to push her could make her angry with you.

kmurphy2131 · March 2016

Xstatic3333 said:

Sadly, I think both good and bad daycare situations can be found at every price point. My first job out of college was at a daycare in a wealthy suburb that had a great reputation and was very expensive. If I'm remembering correctly, it was $1,400 a month for three year olds, so it would have been much higher for infants. At the time, I was planning on a career in early childhood education, and chose it over multiple job offers because I loved the play-based educational philosophy. Many teachers there were great, and usually things went fine, but some things that happened there make my skin crawl to think about. I learned, for example, well after the fact or I would have felt obligated to intervene, that a couple of the infant room teachers would occasionally go for drinks on their lunch break, and frequently smoke pot on their lunch breaks. Many of the younger teachers were also much more focused on drama than the kids. I couldn't feel comfortable sending kids of my own there.

For my own kids, I'll definitely do some searching for a high quality, licensed in-home center. I have a good idea in what I want from a childcare provider and what types of questions I will ask. My biggest priority, after safety, is a focus on play over drilling academics too early. For our pre-baby budget, I'm using local center rates in case we can't find an in-home situation that works well for us. I'd also look into a nanny share, although I'm not really sure how to go about that since none of our friends with kids live in our city.

Disclaimer: Since I'm not a parent yet, I know and recognize that much of what I say I want now could go right out the window

Not a parent either, but I worked in a licensed daycare center in Boston. It was $$$ to put your kids in there. I worked in the infant room. There were issues around teachers being rude/mean to infants at times & feeding foods to kids that their parents didn't consent to/kids had allergies to. It's hard/scary. Idon't know what we will do.

brij2006 · March 2016

Xstatic3333 said:

Sadly, I think both good and bad daycare situations can be found at every price point. My first job out of college was at a daycare in a wealthy suburb that had a great reputation and was very expensive. If I'm remembering correctly, it was $1,400 a month for three year olds, so it would have been much higher for infants. At the time, I was planning on a career in early childhood education, and chose it over multiple job offers because I loved the play-based educational philosophy. Many teachers there were great, and usually things went fine, but some things that happened there make my skin crawl to think about. I learned, for example, well after the fact or I would have felt obligated to intervene, that a couple of the infant room teachers would occasionally go for drinks on their lunch break, and frequently smoke pot on their lunch breaks. Many of the younger teachers were also much more focused on drama than the kids. I couldn't feel comfortable sending kids of my own there.

For my own kids, I'll definitely do some searching for a high quality, licensed in-home center. I have a good idea in what I want from a childcare provider and what types of questions I will ask. My biggest priority, after safety, is a focus on play over drilling academics too early. For our pre-baby budget, I'm using local center rates in case we can't find an in-home situation that works well for us. I'd also look into a nanny share, although I'm not really sure how to go about that since none of our friends with kids live in our city.

Disclaimer: Since I'm not a parent yet, I know and recognize that much of what I say I want now could go right out the window

This. Exactly this. I promise, we visited many licensed and un-licensed options. Along with centers. The stay at home mom we went with, we knew after 5 minutes she was "it" and ended up canceling the other appointments we had after that with other options. I still get teary eyed thinking about DD no longer going to her. She came to our church on Sunday for Easter service and DD sat with her family because she was so excited to see her and her girls. She's not licensed, is cheap, and treats DD like her own child.

Yet a licensed in-home we looked into, the lady herded the kids like cattle and each age group had a 5x5ft space to play in. She was double the price of the SAHM we use.

There are many options. You just have to be willing to search hard and put in a ton of effort to find the right one. We let everyone know we were looking for in-home care and asked many people if they knew of anyone. That's how we found our current sitter and the one she's going to start with in June. It really is going with your gut instincts though. If you don't feel good about the option or you have this weird feeling about them, then keep searching.

Don't discredit all other options outside centers or structured care. You do have to pick through them with a fine tooth comb, but it is possible. More money doesn't always equate better care.

Ahh....financial woes of friends/family!

Re: Ahh....financial woes of friends/family!

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