GTKY / joint finances

julieanne912 · August 2016

LillibetteV said:

@abrewer5 and @julieanne912 do you ever get tired of "keeping score"? I'm honestly curious because it would drive me nuts. I bought our house and he bought our car before we were married - we are still technically the only owners on each thing but they are "ours" and we pay the mortgage from the joint account and we worked together to pay off the car loan early. I don't understand the desire to keep things separate if it would cost you more in the long run. I jumped on to DH's insurance when I switched jobs because it saved us $300/month over what my new job offered - it wasn't even a consideration for me to stay on my own plan.

Not sure what you mean by keeping score? I don't keep score... I pay my stuff and he pays his. I just know he spends more than I think he should, because I see what he buys, but I don't know exact #'s. Since I did create his budget, I know he has a set amount every month for "spending money" which includes anything he needs to buy for the house (like yard supplies, tools etc), "fun" stuff, and gas for his truck. Like recently, he bought 2 new Carhartt hoodies. He doesn't need more hoodies, and I'm sure they weren't cheap. But, I'm more frugal than he is. I wouldn't spend money on something like that, but if he wants to, well, that's his thing. But, because it's coming from him and his account, and I know all of his other obligations are paid, that's really his thing. I also learned pretty early on that if he's spending money that it is in his budget, it doesn't go over well to call him out on it, no matter how unnecessary or stupid I think the purchase is.

For me, if we had a joint account, I'd feel like I'd have to constantly be checking it to see what's in there, because I'm not the only one controlling it. Right now, I know what's in my account at any given time, because I'm the only one using it.

short+sassy · August 2016

I know it is an UO (unpopular opinion) and it is not even something I am proud of. Also a vent. But, quite frankly, it is MY money. I bought MY house before we were married. It is MY equity in that house that make our real estate investments possible. It is MY income that pays the mortgages, plus all our bills, expenses, vacations, and fun. And it is MY assets and largely MY effort that will lead us to an early retirement. Though, we would sure get to retirement a LOT faster if he would just get a job.

<<rant start>>

We lived together over a decade before we got married. He made 2-3x my income that whole time. But we split things evenly anyway. Even during times I was laid off, I was still expected to pay half. Then, he got laid off from his job one month after we got married. 3 1/2 years ago. And hasn't worked since. He at least doesn't sit on his butt. He saves me time and money by helping me with my p/t job and doing a lot of the handyman work for our house and rental properties. Did a lot of work with our rehab and then showings. But has not brought in one cent of income since we got married. He at least didn't bring his own expenses into our marriage and doesn't ask for much for his own hobbies.

I know there aren't a lot of IT jobs in NOLA. But he doesn't even look anymore. I've also pointed out that he has a college degree and obviously lots of experience with MS Office and other softwares. He should look for jobs outside of IT. Sure, he might have to step himself down to only the kind of "meager W-2 income" that I make (rolling eyes). But, gee, at least that's something. Nope. He won't do it. Said reluctantly, "yeah, I should", but hasn't.

So, yeah. It's my money and I have a pretty strong attitude about that because of the above. I really have a lot of resentment at times but, other than my occasionally having a heart-to-heart with him about being more serious with his job search...which never works anyway, I just keep it inside. Ironically and at least positively, we don't argue about money. And despite my negative attitude, I do discuss with him how we want to spend and manage it, along with our long term goals.

I know people rarely come into marriages equally, either with assets/debts/income, and under normal circumstances I'd be okay with that. But I just can't bring myself to think in terms of "ours" when everything has been so grossly one-sided and he doesn't even try to get another job.

<<rant over>>

julieanne912 · August 2016

brij2006 said:

LillibetteV said:

@abrewer5 and @julieanne912 do you ever get tired of "keeping score"? I'm honestly curious because it would drive me nuts. I bought our house and he bought our car before we were married - we are still technically the only owners on each thing but they are "ours" and we pay the mortgage from the joint account and we worked together to pay off the car loan early. I don't understand the desire to keep things separate if it would cost you more in the long run. I jumped on to DH's insurance when I switched jobs because it saved us $300/month over what my new job offered - it wasn't even a consideration for me to stay on my own plan.

I wonder this too.
We had everything separate until the marriage, but we lived together and shared the household expenses. We were even to the point that if we went out to eat we'd discuss who's "turn" it was to pay. When we traveled together, we each paid our portion of the trip. It was definitely a roommate agreement, not a joint partnership.

Whether finances are combined or separate, the biggest thing I think a lot of people on here are trying to get at is that there has to be very open communication about each others' goals, dreams, retirement, etc. Things do need to be planned for as a couple or there will be resentment.

@julieanne912 I don't think anyone on here is making judgements, we've just read your posts in how the finances are in your household and many of us on here have been in your shoes. We know and understand how difficult it is and are trying to give you ideas and options in how to correct it before it gets worse. It's very obvious that there's some frustration on your end as to how he handles his finances, and that's definitely going to only get even worse as time goes on.

Thing is, things are actually getting better than they were. Trust me, I hear what people are saying. But we're not going to go from 0 to 100 in less than a year, he doesn't want to, and I don't want to. We've been taking small steps, but I don't know if we'll ever be at the high frugal level of some folks here, and I'm OK with that. There just tends to be a holier than thou tone here sometimes. It's not easy peasy for everyone, and not everyone is the same. That's all I'm saying.

LillibetteV · August 2016

julieanne912 said:

LillibetteV said:

@abrewer5 and @julieanne912 do you ever get tired of "keeping score"? I'm honestly curious because it would drive me nuts. I bought our house and he bought our car before we were married - we are still technically the only owners on each thing but they are "ours" and we pay the mortgage from the joint account and we worked together to pay off the car loan early. I don't understand the desire to keep things separate if it would cost you more in the long run. I jumped on to DH's insurance when I switched jobs because it saved us $300/month over what my new job offered - it wasn't even a consideration for me to stay on my own plan.

Not sure what you mean by keeping score? I don't keep score... I pay my stuff and he pays his. I just know he spends more than I think he should, because I see what he buys, but I don't know exact #'s. Since I did create his budget, I know he has a set amount every month for "spending money" which includes anything he needs to buy for the house (like yard supplies, tools etc), "fun" stuff, and gas for his truck. Like recently, he bought 2 new Carhartt hoodies. He doesn't need more hoodies, and I'm sure they weren't cheap. But, I'm more frugal than he is. I wouldn't spend money on something like that, but if he wants to, well, that's his thing. But, because it's coming from him and his account, and I know all of his other obligations are paid, that's really his thing. I also learned pretty early on that if he's spending money that it is in his budget, it doesn't go over well to call him out on it, no matter how unnecessary or stupid I think the purchase is.

For me, if we had a joint account, I'd feel like I'd have to constantly be checking it to see what's in there, because I'm not the only one controlling it. Right now, I know what's in my account at any given time, because I'm the only one using it.

So for example HE is in charge of buying supplies for the house, but you aren't? Who is supposed to pay for groceries? If you go out to dinner together which account does that come from? Or do you split the bill according to who ordered what? If he earns more money than you does that mean he gets to spend more? What happens if you've saved your money and want to go on a vacation but he doesn't have the spare funds? That's what I mean by keeping score - instead of using one pot of money to achieve both of your goals and obligations you need to divvy it up. What if you suddenly get a massive raise and start out-earning him? Will you need to reevaluate who pays for what?

als1982 · August 2016

julieanne912 said:

als1982 said:

I'm sorry but the age thing is a total cop out. We got married at 30/31 and had zero problem combining finances. We started with a joint account to pay for our wedding and then after the wedding we made that our primary. Easy.

Easy for you.

You know, sometimes the judgmental tones on this board get really old.

I wasn't being judgmental. I'm sorry if it came across that way.

julieanne912 · August 2016

LillibetteV said:

julieanne912 said:

LillibetteV said:

@abrewer5 and @julieanne912 do you ever get tired of "keeping score"? I'm honestly curious because it would drive me nuts. I bought our house and he bought our car before we were married - we are still technically the only owners on each thing but they are "ours" and we pay the mortgage from the joint account and we worked together to pay off the car loan early. I don't understand the desire to keep things separate if it would cost you more in the long run. I jumped on to DH's insurance when I switched jobs because it saved us $300/month over what my new job offered - it wasn't even a consideration for me to stay on my own plan.

Not sure what you mean by keeping score? I don't keep score... I pay my stuff and he pays his. I just know he spends more than I think he should, because I see what he buys, but I don't know exact #'s. Since I did create his budget, I know he has a set amount every month for "spending money" which includes anything he needs to buy for the house (like yard supplies, tools etc), "fun" stuff, and gas for his truck. Like recently, he bought 2 new Carhartt hoodies. He doesn't need more hoodies, and I'm sure they weren't cheap. But, I'm more frugal than he is. I wouldn't spend money on something like that, but if he wants to, well, that's his thing. But, because it's coming from him and his account, and I know all of his other obligations are paid, that's really his thing. I also learned pretty early on that if he's spending money that it is in his budget, it doesn't go over well to call him out on it, no matter how unnecessary or stupid I think the purchase is.

For me, if we had a joint account, I'd feel like I'd have to constantly be checking it to see what's in there, because I'm not the only one controlling it. Right now, I know what's in my account at any given time, because I'm the only one using it.

So for example HE is in charge of buying supplies for the house, but you aren't? Who is supposed to pay for groceries? If you go out to dinner together which account does that come from? Or do you split the bill according to who ordered what? If he earns more money than you does that mean he gets to spend more? What happens if you've saved your money and want to go on a vacation but he doesn't have the spare funds? That's what I mean by keeping score - instead of using one pot of money to achieve both of your goals and obligations you need to divvy it up. What if you suddenly get a massive raise and start out-earning him? Will you need to reevaluate who pays for what?

I think I mentioned in another post that we each have a separate budget, and we decided together who pays for what. I pay for groceries, because I do all the grocery shopping and all the cooking. I pay for stuff for inside the house, since basically I'm the one who maintains the inside of the house (so things like cleaning supplies, decor items, etc). He pays for everything outside of the house since he handles that for the most part. We deal with large purchases like furniture as they come. For example, when we bought the house, we wanted a new dining room set and bed frame, we picked those out together (THAT was an adventure LOL), and he paid for them. We also got a new sleep number mattress. I pay the payments on that (0 interest for 4 years, and it's helping to build my credit). When we go out to eat, we take turns on who pays. He tends to pay for things like tickets to sporting events or concerts, but I'll buy some of our beers. We're going to Las Vegas in October, we're using his airline points to pay for the flights, and he bought the tickets for the hockey games we're going for. I'm going to pay for the rental car. We stay for free at his dad's condo. He pays for our camper and all the expenses that go along with that. I'll chip in on the campground fees when we go places.

And yes, because he makes more, he has a larger "spending" fund than I do. I'm fine with that. If I started earning more than he does, or if I got a significant raise, then we'd handle it just like any other change in income... we'd reevaluate the budgets and make adjustments accordingly, which is what I'm assuming you would do? You would just be adjusting one budget instead of 2.

So basically, we still do everything together, it's just not coming from the same account, and it's not an even 50/50 split because our income levels are so different.

brij2006 · August 2016

There isn't a Higher than though attitude in here, honestly. This is a very unbiased board as far as message boards go, and most definitely when it comes to finances.
However, we area all saying this because you have expressed your frustrations before about him purchasing things he doesn't need. Correct, it is coming out of his income and you may not feel like it affects you. But honestly, you're married. This does affect you greatly. If he's paying $700/month on a truck, camper, and ATV payments, what would you rather be doing with that $700/month? Would it get you both closer to retiring earlier? Traveling more? Paying off the house quicker? Pay off student loans if there are some? Allow you to stay home whenever you have children?
This is where we're trying to point out that yes separate finances may work for some and not others, but it's very obvious that there's a lot of resentment here in how he handles his finances. There is also absolutely nothing wrong with that. You have every right to be frustrated when you're working hard to have more "planning" and he is not. Yet that is also where things need to be discussed fully and calmly. If you don't like the way he spends his money then trust me, it has got to be discussed. He also needs to be completely involved in the finances. Handing him a budget for the finances you do not touch nor are involved in just causes him to be even more aggravated and feel like you're trying to tell him what to do with his money.
There are a lot of red flags here and it's best to really open up about them. Talk about your goals and dreams. What do you both want to do? When? What's most important? When do you want to retire together? How will you save up enough to get there? When do you want kids? Do you or he want to stay home when that happens?
All of these questions revolve around finances. They're major questions in a marriage and can have a huge impact on how those are handled by either party. If one wants to retire at 50 and the other would rather travel a lot now, then those are 2 completely separate goals that you both are working against each other to achieve.

FWIW my husband has a toy car that he does a lot of modifications to. We were together for 7 years and he decided to spend $5,000 on doing a complete overhaul of the motor and some other things. I was so mad that he spent $5k on his toy, but kept telling me he didn't have enough money for a ring. I STILL give him crap about this, but it had to be discussed. If I just kept stewing on it and telling myself it was "his" money, I would have left. We weren't even married at that point, but I had to voice to him that his frivolous spending made me feel like our goals and plans together didn't matter.
All of this followed us into marriage. We're not perfect by any means, but we touch on and discuss the finances a minimum of 3 times/week. It's just our nature and is the only way we'll get to our joint goals.

julieanne912 · August 2016

Oh also, the vacation thing has come up recently. He wants to go back to Vegas in November to go to a football game. Some of our friends are going. I don't have the funds to help chip in to go. So he's going to go without me. I'm OK with that (I wasn't super interested in going anyway), and he'd be OK if I went on vacation without him too, I did it before we were married more than once.

abrewer5 · August 2016

LillibetteV said:

@abrewer5 and @julieanne912 do you ever get tired of "keeping score"? I'm honestly curious because it would drive me nuts. I bought our house and he bought our car before we were married - we are still technically the only owners on each thing but they are "ours" and we pay the mortgage from the joint account and we worked together to pay off the car loan early. I don't understand the desire to keep things separate if it would cost you more in the long run. I jumped on to DH's insurance when I switched jobs because it saved us $300/month over what my new job offered - it wasn't even a consideration for me to stay on my own plan.

I really don't consider it keeping score at all... For me this is what is comfortable and what works and since it works for us I don't see a reason to change. If there comes a time when what we currently do no longer works then we will reevaluate.

I'm not really sure why you assume we consider it keeping score, can you elaborate?

Like I said we'll combine when it makes sense to, like the health insurance which I am now on his health insurance because it saves me/us $100 a month. But it doesn't make sense to me to have everything combined. I know couples who can't even buy a gift for each other because the other one sees the purchase immediately, I'm not a fan of that. I know couples who have had over drafts because the one went out to eat without telling the other and a bill came out that same day, again not a fan. Sure, plenty of couples combine and are perfectly happy and fine with it, but that's not necessarily for everyone and it doesn't make one person wrong or right.

I would rather just manage my money and him manage his. Really it's not different than us having "fun money" accounts since all of our bills/savings go to the joint account thru allotments and we just allocate the rest for what we want to. Like I send most of my money to pay off my student loans early while he'd rather save his for boat stuff and video games.

ETA: We actually discuss finances a good bit and talk about how we're saving/spending so we have a general idea of what the other is doing. When it comes to big purchases (vacation, appliances, home repair, etc.) we'll talk about it, decide if it should come from joint savings, an account we both contribute to, or if we'd rather just split the cost. Usually for dates we'll take turns paying or if one of us is tight that week because we have opposite pay weeks the other will pick up the tab. We don't really care because it all evens out in the end.

abrewer5 · August 2016

@short+sassy you have A LOT more patience than me. I don't think I would be able to handle my H being unemployed for 3.5 years and not contributing. Kudos to you for trying to be understanding and supportive. I would not be the same and perhaps that's because I "keep score" but I couldn't do it.

julieanne912 · August 2016

brij2006 said:

There isn't a Higher than though attitude in here, honestly. This is a very unbiased board as far as message boards go, and most definitely when it comes to finances.
However, we area all saying this because you have expressed your frustrations before about him purchasing things he doesn't need. Correct, it is coming out of his income and you may not feel like it affects you. But honestly, you're married. This does affect you greatly. If he's paying $700/month on a truck, camper, and ATV payments, what would you rather be doing with that $700/month? Would it get you both closer to retiring earlier? Traveling more? Paying off the house quicker? Pay off student loans if there are some? Allow you to stay home whenever you have children?
This is where we're trying to point out that yes separate finances may work for some and not others, but it's very obvious that there's a lot of resentment here in how he handles his finances. There is also absolutely nothing wrong with that. You have every right to be frustrated when you're working hard to have more "planning" and he is not. Yet that is also where things need to be discussed fully and calmly. If you don't like the way he spends his money then trust me, it has got to be discussed. He also needs to be completely involved in the finances. Handing him a budget for the finances you do not touch nor are involved in just causes him to be even more aggravated and feel like you're trying to tell him what to do with his money.
There are a lot of red flags here and it's best to really open up about them. Talk about your goals and dreams. What do you both want to do? When? What's most important? When do you want to retire together? How will you save up enough to get there? When do you want kids? Do you or he want to stay home when that happens?
All of these questions revolve around finances. They're major questions in a marriage and can have a huge impact on how those are handled by either party. If one wants to retire at 50 and the other would rather travel a lot now, then those are 2 completely separate goals that you both are working against each other to achieve.

FWIW my husband has a toy car that he does a lot of modifications to. We were together for 7 years and he decided to spend $5,000 on doing a complete overhaul of the motor and some other things. I was so mad that he spent $5k on his toy, but kept telling me he didn't have enough money for a ring. I STILL give him crap about this, but it had to be discussed. If I just kept stewing on it and telling myself it was "his" money, I would have left. We weren't even married at that point, but I had to voice to him that his frivolous spending made me feel like our goals and plans together didn't matter.
All of this followed us into marriage. We're not perfect by any means, but we touch on and discuss the finances a minimum of 3 times/week. It's just our nature and is the only way we'll get to our joint goals.

OK well, I didn't "hand him a budget". He asked me to put together a budget for him because he knows I'm good at that sort of thing, so I did, and he looked at it, we tweaked it, and he's happy with it. He asks me go in and adjust it whenever something changes. Before, he had no budget, and just hoped for the best, so him asking me to help him was a huge step.

As for the spending on the truck/camper/ATV, I've come to terms with that. I actually enjoy using those things. Now, do I wish he didn't get them in the first place? Sometimes, but what's done is done. I can't force him to go sell them for a loss just because I don't like the payments. I don't harbor resentment about it anymore. I was doing that for awhile, and it wasn't doing me or our relationship any good.

He's also made some progress with working on getting those payments down, without any help from me. He did a bunch of leg work and found a bank where he could refinance the camper for a lower rate (2% lower). He's underwater on it, and the loan amount they'd give us was less than he owed. He decided to come up with the rest in cash so he could still refi it. He's still paying the old payment amount, and then some, to get it paid down even more. He's also acknowledged that he shouldn't have purchased it on a whim like he did. Like I said, baby steps!

Our future has come up a lot lately, as it's getting to the point that if we want a kid, we need to do it soon, I'm getting old. He knows what his responsibilities are once that happens, and based on how he's changed in the past 6 months or so, I believe he will cut the spending he does now to step up for a kid, he's already cut a lot of it out since we've gotten settled into the house. We've also talked plenty about retirement etc., and are on the same page with that.

You mention that you and your husband talk about your finances 3 times a week. To me that seems very excessive. But the key here is, that's what works for you. Overall, what we are doing is working for us at this point. Sure, there's a few things I am not totally pleased with, just like I'm sure there's things that I do that he's not totally pleased with either. But, it works for us right now.

vlagrl35 · August 2016

Everybody has different situations on here. For us as me being the SAHM its just easier for us to have a joint checking and savings account. My little account would be tiny if we had separate. To me it would feel as if we aren't equal and its NOT "our" money. But that's just my feelings about it as I've been in that situation before with my first husband. He made a good amount of money and mine was barely anything so I never felt equal and always felt like we were keeping score.

Also, if anything ever happened to either of you guys you have to wait until you get the death certificate to collect the money out of his separate accounts. Just cause you are POD doesn't mean you can access it right away. I've been there and it sucks.

short+sassy · August 2016

abrewer5 said:

@short+sassy you have A LOT more patience than me. I don't think I would be able to handle my H being unemployed for 3.5 years and not contributing. Kudos to you for trying to be understanding and supportive. I would not be the same and perhaps that's because I "keep score" but I couldn't do it.

Thanks for the understanding! I sometimes feel like I'm a bad person for not having more of an "all for one and one for all" attitude when it comes to my finances in regards to my marriage...like most people do. But I just don't.

One thing we are on the same page on is living fairly frugally on a daily basis. Which is actually odd because, I was like that before we were married, but he wasn't. He used buy all the latest tech toys and that kind of thing but then, at that time, he also had the income to support it. By keeping our monthly expenses to a dull roar and adding in income streams, I am able to comfortably support us.

If that were not the case, I could see things escalating into fights about money and angry fights about him getting a job. As opposed to my current more gentle discussions and reminders about looking for work.

hoffse · August 2016

These discussions have been interesting. I think people just need to do whatever works in their household. Resentment can build keeping things separate - I understand the "keeping score" question, because there's always an obligation to reimburse or pay back. But on the other hand, resentment can build when things are joint and spouse 1 is way outspending spouse 2 from the "family pot."

I supported H for a couple years while he was finishing law school and I was practicing. I resented it, even though he was well on his way toward earning a great income. He took two years off to "find himself" between undergrad and law school, and in my head that was two extra years we were apart, two extra years where we were single income, two extra years with smaller retirement contributions, etc. In fact, I hated it so much that I don't think I will ever be able to stay home because I would be afraid that he would come to resent me.

All that being said, there are plenty of families with one working spouse, and they don't experience that kind of conflict or resentment that H and I had while we were single income. It works for them, but it doesn't work for us. There is no single formula. If something isn't working quite right, then that's the time to gather new ideas and experiment with a new system.

LillibetteV · August 2016

@julieanne912 I guess "keeping score" may not have been the best way to phrase it because that implies animosity. When I go out with my best friend we'll say "hey I'll go buy the movie tickets if you run and grab us some popcorn" and we call that close enough, but I don't want to have to think about that sort of thing with my husband because he and I are one team (hence why I share a last name with him and not my best friend). And while we occasionally will take trips without the other it would never be due to finances - it's usually a friends trip, or one of us has to skip because work is busy or something like that, but if one of us said "well I'm going on this pricey trip and it's a bummer you can't afford it" all hell would break loose in our house.

If we had a change in income we would obviously readjust our budget, but it would not work for my marriage for the person bringing in more income to get to spend more money on themselves. My husband and I both have professional careers and work very hard but I'm in the private sector and he's in public which means I make about $20k more than him - since I don't work any harder than him I don't see why I get to splurge more often (one caveat - usually after earning tons of OT working on a trial he'll tell me to go treat myself to a spa day to relax. that's the only time we really say "yes you worked your tush off so go treat yo self")

MommyLiberty5013 · August 2016

Interesting discussion.

Although I no longer earn an income because I am a SAHM, DH still refers to what he earns as "our money." Everything is joint except the IRAs and our credit cards. And, I happen to be the custodian listed on all the kids' 529s.

Due to my previous career in banking and because DH travels for his job, I actually handle all the bill paying and financial information.

We have differing investment ideologies too. I decided to venture out on my own and research my own things within my retirement accounts, whereas DH sticks to the planned-out, pre-set mutual funds based off of risk assessments and time until retirement.

I am the spendier one of the two of us. We actually don't budget. But, we do discuss major purchases for the family and/or house...the other day I spent nearly $300 on kids' clothing, which was all on sale, from The Children's Place website, because I like to buy the kids' clothing for the past season in advance since it's all marked down. For example, my DD is 4, but I just stocked up on 5T summer clothing for her, which she will wear in 2017. DH does not mind when I do stuff like that because it's a needed expense. But, I would not just go spend nearly $300 on a new light fixture without a discussion with him.

We do not "keep score." And, every household has to do what works for them. I might not work outside the home for an income, but we do home school and that's like a FT job for me, plus I do all the odds and ends, and keep the enterprise going forward. DH just happens to be the one who provides the money.

brij2006 · August 2016

LillibetteV said:

@julieanne912 I guess "keeping score" may not have been the best way to phrase it because that implies animosity. When I go out with my best friend we'll say "hey I'll go buy the movie tickets if you run and grab us some popcorn" and we call that close enough, but I don't want to have to think about that sort of thing with my husband because he and I are one team (hence why I share a last name with him and not my best friend). And while we occasionally will take trips without the other it would never be due to finances - it's usually a friends trip, or one of us has to skip because work is busy or something like that, but if one of us said "well I'm going on this pricey trip and it's a bummer you can't afford it" all hell would break loose in our house.

If we had a change in income we would obviously readjust our budget, but it would not work for my marriage for the person bringing in more income to get to spend more money on themselves. My husband and I both have professional careers and work very hard but I'm in the private sector and he's in public which means I make about $20k more than him - since I don't work any harder than him I don't see why I get to splurge more often (one caveat - usually after earning tons of OT working on a trial he'll tell me to go treat myself to a spa day to relax. that's the only time we really say "yes you worked your tush off so go treat yo self")

All of this is sooo similar to our house. H works a ton of overtime and I get bonuses and commissions. Whenever one of us has a good month in income, we'll usually tell that person to go ahead and use some of that for a personal splurge for them.

Right now we're pricing out Hawaii for this winter. All hell would break loose if one of us could afford it and the other couldn't. Instead it's nice to look at our joint budget and see where we can make some cuts over the next couple of months so we can make it work.
Yet H still was able to budget in a couple rounds of golf and some fantasy football expenses, and I was able to budget in a wine day with my BFF. We both get what we want/need, but we also had to cut back on some other things in order to make that joint trip happen. If it was just me making the cuts in order to make it happen, I would be very pissed that he was still going golfing but "couldn't afford" to go on a trip with me.

short+sassy · August 2016

I don't think I was misunderstood, but did want to clarify that I generally think the amount or any money someone brings in does not make them less of a financial partner, when that is what is agreed to between two people.

SAHMs and SAHDs are good examples of that.

jtmh2012 · August 2016

short+sassy said:

I don't think I was misunderstood, but did want to clarify that I generally think the amount or any money someone brings in does not make them less of a financial partner, when that is what is agreed to between two people.
SAHMs and SAHDs are good examples of that.

It's nice to see you mention both. I think it's very interesting that it seems acceptable for the wife to stay home without an income providing job, but it's not for a husband to do the same thing.

The one thing I do find question though is do any of the people with separate accounts have plans for what happens should one spouse die either expectedly or unexpectedly. Personally, I think it would suck for the other spouse to have to wait until everything was settled and find themselves locked away from the money in the meantime.

julieanne912 · August 2016

jtmh2012 said:

short+sassy said:

I don't think I was misunderstood, but did want to clarify that I generally think the amount or any money someone brings in does not make them less of a financial partner, when that is what is agreed to between two people.
SAHMs and SAHDs are good examples of that.

It's nice to see you mention both. I think it's very interesting that it seems acceptable for the wife to stay home without an income providing job, but it's not for a husband to do the same thing.

The one thing I do find question though is do any of the people with separate accounts have plans for what happens should one spouse die either expectedly or unexpectedly. Personally, I think it would suck for the other spouse to have to wait until everything was settled and find themselves locked away from the money in the meantime.

That's a good question and something I hadn't thought of.

Since we do have a couple joint accounts, I would think that having a month or two's worth of basic expenses in a joint account would be the answer to that question.

vlagrl35 · August 2016

jtmh2012 said:

short+sassy said:

I don't think I was misunderstood, but did want to clarify that I generally think the amount or any money someone brings in does not make them less of a financial partner, when that is what is agreed to between two people.
SAHMs and SAHDs are good examples of that.

It's nice to see you mention both. I think it's very interesting that it seems acceptable for the wife to stay home without an income providing job, but it's not for a husband to do the same thing.

The one thing I do find question though is do any of the people with separate accounts have plans for what happens should one spouse die either expectedly or unexpectedly. Personally, I think it would suck for the other spouse to have to wait until everything was settled and find themselves locked away from the money in the meantime.

Yeah I just wanted everyone to know that because I've went thru it about 9 years ago. I was devastated enough that he passed away but I still had to pay all the bills like mortgage and utilities. I remember my attorney gave me a power of attorney letter that stated all that legal jargon that was supposed to grant me access to his bank accounts. I went to bank of america and they flat out told me they needed the death certificate which I didn't get until 6 weeks after he passed! I remember getting lots of copies from the cemetery on new years eve that year. It was like a weight lifted off my shoulders.

Banks look for deaths in the paper and they freeze accounts once the fact is known. It usually takes several days but not too long. Every day I used his ATM card and withdrew the max amount of cash you could each day until they froze his account. I think it was around $500ish per day. Thank god I remembered his PIN - he let me use it a few times when shopping.

Its bad enough grieving the death of your spouse but to add on all those money stressors - it makes it even harder. I understand some of you may make enough money by yourself to get thru a situation like that but I didn't. That was a BIG reason it was important for me and DH to have joint accounts and all the PODs and TODs necessary on other accounts and to have a WILL and before we got married we had PreNups (my idea obviously).

bmo88 · August 2016

Wow, this conversation definitely got a bit heated there for a little while.

Interesting that there is an assumption that having separate finances leads to "keeping score." I guess it really just depends on how you look at it. DH and I jokingly say, "are you doing to pay this time?" when we eat out, but we know that it's our finances together at the end of the day.

As I mentioned before, we have separate accounts, but see everything as joint finances. As long as we are married, our combined assets and debts will impact both of us. There is no way around it. It would be pointless to see it as "his" or mine." Even his student loans or my grad school tuition are seen as "ours" because any expense we take on or investment we make individually impacts both of our futures.

So really, if you are going to hitch your wagon to someone for life (legally or not), you really are going to be impacting each other's finances, regardless of how you actually break out the expenses.

abrewer5 · August 2016

jtmh2012 said:

short+sassy said:

I don't think I was misunderstood, but did want to clarify that I generally think the amount or any money someone brings in does not make them less of a financial partner, when that is what is agreed to between two people.
SAHMs and SAHDs are good examples of that.

It's nice to see you mention both. I think it's very interesting that it seems acceptable for the wife to stay home without an income providing job, but it's not for a husband to do the same thing.

The one thing I do find question though is do any of the people with separate accounts have plans for what happens should one spouse die either expectedly or unexpectedly. Personally, I think it would suck for the other spouse to have to wait until everything was settled and find themselves locked away from the money in the meantime.

We keep most of our savings and our bill paying money in a joint account. H would be fine if I died and he had to wait a couple months to access my checking account. Although this is something I'm going to talk with him about and see if we can get each other added as joints on our accounts in case an emergency ever does happen.

abrewer5 · August 2016

bmo88 said:

Wow, this conversation definitely got a bit heated there for a little while.

Interesting that there is an assumption that having separate finances leads to "keeping score." I guess it really just depends on how you look at it. DH and I jokingly say, "are you doing to pay this time?" when we eat out, but we know that it's our finances together at the end of the day.

As I mentioned before, we have separate accounts, but see everything as joint finances. As long as we are married, our combined assets and debts will impact both of us. There is no way around it. It would be pointless to see it as "his" or mine." Even his student loans or my grad school tuition are seen as "ours" because any expense we take on or investment we make individually impacts both of our futures.

So really, if you are going to hitch your wagon to someone for life (legally or not), you really are going to be impacting each other's finances, regardless of how you actually break out the expenses.

This is how H and I feel too. If one of us ever needs money we're definitely more than willing to help each other and figure out the best way to pay for things. At the end of the day we know that we're in this together and for our marriage to work we need to help each other.

For example: H and I just bought a new boat this summer. I told him I didn't feel 100% comfortable doing it until SL and his truck were paid off but we decided to compromise and pay off the truck before buying the boat and then come tax return time we would use the tax refund to pay off my SL. Once my SL is paid off I'm going to triple what I'm putting towards the boat to pay it off quicker. I know H cannot afford to match that payment and I'm 100% OK with that because I know paying it off early is what is best for our family. This is why I don't feel like I keep score, we may have separate accounts/savings but we really view everything as "ours" at the end of the day.

brij2006 · August 2016

abrewer5 said:

bmo88 said:

Wow, this conversation definitely got a bit heated there for a little while.

Interesting that there is an assumption that having separate finances leads to "keeping score." I guess it really just depends on how you look at it. DH and I jokingly say, "are you doing to pay this time?" when we eat out, but we know that it's our finances together at the end of the day.

As I mentioned before, we have separate accounts, but see everything as joint finances. As long as we are married, our combined assets and debts will impact both of us. There is no way around it. It would be pointless to see it as "his" or mine." Even his student loans or my grad school tuition are seen as "ours" because any expense we take on or investment we make individually impacts both of our futures.

So really, if you are going to hitch your wagon to someone for life (legally or not), you really are going to be impacting each other's finances, regardless of how you actually break out the expenses.

This is how H and I feel too. If one of us ever needs money we're definitely more than willing to help each other and figure out the best way to pay for things. At the end of the day we know that we're in this together and for our marriage to work we need to help each other.
For example: H and I just bought a new boat this summer. I told him I didn't feel 100% comfortable doing it until SL and his truck were paid off but we decided to compromise and pay off the truck before buying the boat and then come tax return time we would use the tax refund to pay off my SL. Once my SL is paid off I'm going to triple what I'm putting towards the boat to pay it off quicker. I know H cannot afford to match that payment and I'm 100% OK with that because I know paying it off early is what is best for our family. This is why I don't feel like I keep score, we may have separate accounts/savings but we really view everything as "ours" at the end of the day.

This is where I feel that the biggest difference is. It's one thing to be open, discuss, and plan together with the finances but still have separate accounts. It's a whole different thing for a spouse to not be on board with a boat purchase like this and the other to do it anyways. Or not even discuss a purchase and make it. That's where I personally (my opinion) feel like the separate accounts can do more harm to a marriage than good.

So when it comes to a newlywed asking for advice on what they should do, I'm always going to recommend to combine the finances and work together. Doing so forces you both to discuss more things than you would have or discuss how you feel about the other persons' spending.

short+sassy · August 2016

brij2006 said:

abrewer5 said:

bmo88 said:

Wow, this conversation definitely got a bit heated there for a little while.

Interesting that there is an assumption that having separate finances leads to "keeping score." I guess it really just depends on how you look at it. DH and I jokingly say, "are you doing to pay this time?" when we eat out, but we know that it's our finances together at the end of the day.

As I mentioned before, we have separate accounts, but see everything as joint finances. As long as we are married, our combined assets and debts will impact both of us. There is no way around it. It would be pointless to see it as "his" or mine." Even his student loans or my grad school tuition are seen as "ours" because any expense we take on or investment we make individually impacts both of our futures.

So really, if you are going to hitch your wagon to someone for life (legally or not), you really are going to be impacting each other's finances, regardless of how you actually break out the expenses.

This is how H and I feel too. If one of us ever needs money we're definitely more than willing to help each other and figure out the best way to pay for things. At the end of the day we know that we're in this together and for our marriage to work we need to help each other.
For example: H and I just bought a new boat this summer. I told him I didn't feel 100% comfortable doing it until SL and his truck were paid off but we decided to compromise and pay off the truck before buying the boat and then come tax return time we would use the tax refund to pay off my SL. Once my SL is paid off I'm going to triple what I'm putting towards the boat to pay it off quicker. I know H cannot afford to match that payment and I'm 100% OK with that because I know paying it off early is what is best for our family. This is why I don't feel like I keep score, we may have separate accounts/savings but we really view everything as "ours" at the end of the day.

This is where I feel that the biggest difference is. It's one thing to be open, discuss, and plan together with the finances but still have separate accounts. It's a whole different thing for a spouse to not be on board with a boat purchase like this and the other to do it anyways. Or not even discuss a purchase and make it. That's where I personally (my opinion) feel like the separate accounts can do more harm to a marriage than good.

So when it comes to a newlywed asking for advice on what they should do, I'm always going to recommend to combine the finances and work together. Doing so forces you both to discuss more things than you would have or discuss how you feel about the other persons' spending.

Ooofff, that reminds me of an incident that happened to a close family member. She was a SAHM at the time and her H made a very good living (low 6 figures). Yet, they still often lived "paycheck to paycheck" because he was a spendthrift.

On a whim, he stopped at a car dealership on his way home from work one day and bought each of them a brand new car! I just couldn't even imagine. They already had a lot of debt and she was really upset about it.

brij2006 · August 2016

short+sassy said:

brij2006 said:

abrewer5 said:

bmo88 said:

Wow, this conversation definitely got a bit heated there for a little while.

Interesting that there is an assumption that having separate finances leads to "keeping score." I guess it really just depends on how you look at it. DH and I jokingly say, "are you doing to pay this time?" when we eat out, but we know that it's our finances together at the end of the day.

As I mentioned before, we have separate accounts, but see everything as joint finances. As long as we are married, our combined assets and debts will impact both of us. There is no way around it. It would be pointless to see it as "his" or mine." Even his student loans or my grad school tuition are seen as "ours" because any expense we take on or investment we make individually impacts both of our futures.

So really, if you are going to hitch your wagon to someone for life (legally or not), you really are going to be impacting each other's finances, regardless of how you actually break out the expenses.

This is how H and I feel too. If one of us ever needs money we're definitely more than willing to help each other and figure out the best way to pay for things. At the end of the day we know that we're in this together and for our marriage to work we need to help each other.
For example: H and I just bought a new boat this summer. I told him I didn't feel 100% comfortable doing it until SL and his truck were paid off but we decided to compromise and pay off the truck before buying the boat and then come tax return time we would use the tax refund to pay off my SL. Once my SL is paid off I'm going to triple what I'm putting towards the boat to pay it off quicker. I know H cannot afford to match that payment and I'm 100% OK with that because I know paying it off early is what is best for our family. This is why I don't feel like I keep score, we may have separate accounts/savings but we really view everything as "ours" at the end of the day.

This is where I feel that the biggest difference is. It's one thing to be open, discuss, and plan together with the finances but still have separate accounts. It's a whole different thing for a spouse to not be on board with a boat purchase like this and the other to do it anyways. Or not even discuss a purchase and make it. That's where I personally (my opinion) feel like the separate accounts can do more harm to a marriage than good.

So when it comes to a newlywed asking for advice on what they should do, I'm always going to recommend to combine the finances and work together. Doing so forces you both to discuss more things than you would have or discuss how you feel about the other persons' spending.

Ooofff, that reminds me of an incident that happened to a close family member. She was a SAHM at the time and her H made a very good living (low 6 figures). Yet, they still often lived "paycheck to paycheck" because he was a spendthrift.
On a whim, he stopped at a car dealership on his way home from work one day and bought each of them a brand new car! I just couldn't even imagine. They already had a lot of debt and she was really upset about it.

My H would be dead. Kidding....kinda.
We have friends like this as well. He makes about $50k and she made around $35k. They have joint finances, but he went in for an oil change and came home with a new car without discussing it with her. Actually, he sent her a snapchat picture of it with some caption about their new baby. She was livid when he got home, and he told her that he makes more than her so he can afford it. I was appalled. Yet she would do anything to be able to stay home with their son.

I will say that people like I just mentioned, those things can really tear a marriage apart. This is where finances is such a huge key in a marriage and why it's the #1 cause for divorce. She got a big promotion and raise at the beginning of this year and only told him about $7k of the extra income. The other $7k she has direct deposited into a savings account he doesn't know about, and she wants to leave the marriage because she still has no say in their finances. It's sad. Very sad. We've offered to pay for them to go through FPU and have offered a lot to help give them guidance. Well it came out last month that she had been having an affair since fall of last year, and she flat out said that the finances were the main reason why she has done it. She's since stopped and has told her husband about it and they're trying to fix their marriage, but it's so hard when I am very close to her and hear the background of everything. She's been very open with me that it all started with the fact that she made less than him so she should be spending less and had less of a say. So when she got a promotion and raise, he wasn't even happy for her or proud of her. She took that extra $7k in income and tried to take charge and tell him they needed to pay off one of their vehicles. She has handled that, but he fights her with it constantly and says it's stupid to pay things off. I really don't know how she does it, and that's even with joint accounts.
Obviously they have other marital problems as well, but when her and I discuss how all of this started and what got her to the point of the affair, it always comes back to the finances.

I wish some people would see and realize that finances have a huge impact on so many more things than just how much is in your account.

short+sassy · August 2016

@brij2006, wow! That is a really sad story. I suspect her H would be a controlling jerk about money regardless of the situation and just uses the fact that she makes a bit less money as his excuse. Probably also why he wasn't that thrilled about her raise. From his perspective, now she only makes 15% less than him. His excuse for monetary control has diminished. Though apparently, "in secret", they actually make about the same now.

The one time I could very, very well understand and agree with a spouse hiding monetary assets is in a physically abusive relationship. I realize and hope that isn't your friend's case, but the control and (I'm guessing) emotional abuse reminds me of that.

short+sassy · August 2016

jtmh2012 said:

short+sassy said:

I don't think I was misunderstood, but did want to clarify that I generally think the amount or any money someone brings in does not make them less of a financial partner, when that is what is agreed to between two people.
SAHMs and SAHDs are good examples of that.

It's nice to see you mention both. I think it's very interesting that it seems acceptable for the wife to stay home without an income providing job, but it's not for a husband to do the same thing.

The one thing I do find question though is do any of the people with separate accounts have plans for what happens should one spouse die either expectedly or unexpectedly. Personally, I think it would suck for the other spouse to have to wait until everything was settled and find themselves locked away from the money in the meantime.

That reminds me, for anyone who has a safety deposit box, make sure there is at least one other signer on it. Just like accounts, banks lock those down in the event of someone's death. There is as much, if not more, paperwork involved and needed before an heir can access a box, as there is for a bank account.

Really, really inconvenient if that is where a person's will is kept! Which is where it often is. Of course, if a will is drawn professionally by a lawyer, I'm assuming there will be a copy in those offices also. But then, that is also assuming your heirs would even know which law firm handled it.

brij2006 · August 2016

short+sassy said:

@brij2006, wow! That is a really sad story. I suspect her H would be a controlling jerk about money regardless of the situation and just uses the fact that she makes a bit less money as his excuse. Probably also why he wasn't that thrilled about her raise. From his perspective, now she only makes 15% less than him. His excuse for monetary control has diminished. Though apparently, "in secret", they actually make about the same now.
The one time I could very, very well understand and agree with a spouse hiding monetary assets is in a physically abusive relationship. I realize and hope that isn't your friend's case, but the control and (I'm guessing) emotional abuse reminds me of that.

This is exactly what my H and I said. We knew things were bad after she got the raise, but we didn't know it was to the extent that she was having an affair as well. She had worked very hard to get that promotion and was very open with him that if they could never afford for her to stay home then she was going to go for different promotions and opportunities at her job. So it isn't like this was something he didn't know she was going for. He's also always been more of the dominant type and she the submissive type. So when she started moving up at her job and then got this bigger promotion she felt a lot more self worth and gained a lot more confidence to make bigger decisions, especially with their finances. Which in turn made him feel like he no longer controlled that portion of their marriage.
I've told her that she needs to come clean about the separate account. If they're going to try and work through the affair and remain married then there needs to be zero secrets right now. He will likely be very angry about it. She said her mom is also on the account with her because she wanted someone to know about it if something happened. I told her to have her mom sign off of it before she tells, that way he isn't also angry with her mom.

This is where I personally feel that the whole idea of whenever the other spouse makes more then they will/can have more in their account, is just asking for problems. Why shouldn't the spouse that makes less have the same weight in financial decisions? Not saying that happens with all separate accounts, but joint decisions about finances is a very big thing in a marriage and each spouse needs to feel like they each have equal say in them. My H makes more than I do, but our "fun money" is still the same for each of us. We also discuss and budget in if I want to go to Cali to visit my BFF or he wants to do something to his car. Is it fair and equal down the middle? No. But we discuss these things and plan for them. We know it's important to each other and we don't want the fact that we're married to make it so neither one of us can do the things we enjoy because it isn't coming out of "my" income.

GTKY / joint finances

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