GTKY / joint finances

csuave · August 2016

We discussed finances before we got married and decided on his, hers and ours accounts. We kept our individual accounts and opened a joint at the bank we got our mortgage through.

We each put a hefty amount each month into the joint account and the rest goes to our individual accounts as "fun" money. Our joint account pays all of the bills, builds savings for purchases of cars, vacations, computers, etc., provides e-fund and basically pays for everything we do together. Fun money is used for "separate" activities: going out with the girls/guys, separate vacations, gifts for family and individual charity decisions.

I am much more of a saver than H is, I make more and I brought considerably more assets into the relationship (and no debt). As a result I have a lot of "fun" money. Most of the time I use this for the benefit of both of us by doing things like: paying health insurance and funding HSA, extra investments, extra e-fund, large charitable donations, paying for vacations, and paying off most of H's student loan.

I think we'll eventually combine but some of the things I like about being separate are:
-we don't discuss how much to spend on gifts for family or each other. If he wants to spend $100 on his mom for Christmas and I want to spend $0 on my mom we do that.
-H is not a church goer (but he does attend with me most of the time because he knows it is important to me). My donations to church don't need a joint discussion---however, in choosing a church for me to join we made sure it was one we were both comfortable with--and I think that is important financially because as PPs mentioned it is all our money after all and I wouldn't want to spend it on something he was against.
-H is learning more about budgeting. I take care of the joint budget (and go over it with him in monthly meetings) so this is all he is responsible for. I like how he will give more thought to purchases because he has limited funds for them. Right now he is saving for a new iphone. He is saving and delaying the purchase because it is a big expense. He also cut some fat from his budget by reducing phone plans...not something he was ever concerned about until he started paying more attention to how much was coming in and going out.

Both names are not on our personal accounts and that is something we should look into but since we have a large joint efund/savings and insurance it wouldn't turn into a dire situation if one of us died today.

vlagrl35 · August 2016

short+sassy said:

jtmh2012 said:

short+sassy said:

I don't think I was misunderstood, but did want to clarify that I generally think the amount or any money someone brings in does not make them less of a financial partner, when that is what is agreed to between two people.
SAHMs and SAHDs are good examples of that.

It's nice to see you mention both. I think it's very interesting that it seems acceptable for the wife to stay home without an income providing job, but it's not for a husband to do the same thing.

The one thing I do find question though is do any of the people with separate accounts have plans for what happens should one spouse die either expectedly or unexpectedly. Personally, I think it would suck for the other spouse to have to wait until everything was settled and find themselves locked away from the money in the meantime.

That reminds me, for anyone who has a safety deposit box, make sure there is at least one other signer on it. Just like accounts, banks lock those down in the event of someone's death. There is as much, if not more, paperwork involved and needed before an heir can access a box, as there is for a bank account.
Really, really inconvenient if that is where a person's will is kept! Which is where it often is. Of course, if a will is drawn professionally by a lawyer, I'm assuming there will be a copy in those offices also. But then, that is also assuming your heirs would even know which law firm handled it.

Great reminder I need to have my mother sign as POD for our safe deposit box. Also our attorney told us when we had our will done that she can't give it to a family member that doesn't know where you keep it. We do keep our WILL in our box.

brij2006 · August 2016

vlagrl35 said:

short+sassy said:

jtmh2012 said:

short+sassy said:

I don't think I was misunderstood, but did want to clarify that I generally think the amount or any money someone brings in does not make them less of a financial partner, when that is what is agreed to between two people.
SAHMs and SAHDs are good examples of that.

It's nice to see you mention both. I think it's very interesting that it seems acceptable for the wife to stay home without an income providing job, but it's not for a husband to do the same thing.

The one thing I do find question though is do any of the people with separate accounts have plans for what happens should one spouse die either expectedly or unexpectedly. Personally, I think it would suck for the other spouse to have to wait until everything was settled and find themselves locked away from the money in the meantime.

That reminds me, for anyone who has a safety deposit box, make sure there is at least one other signer on it. Just like accounts, banks lock those down in the event of someone's death. There is as much, if not more, paperwork involved and needed before an heir can access a box, as there is for a bank account.
Really, really inconvenient if that is where a person's will is kept! Which is where it often is. Of course, if a will is drawn professionally by a lawyer, I'm assuming there will be a copy in those offices also. But then, that is also assuming your heirs would even know which law firm handled it.

Great reminder I need to have my mother sign as POD for our safe deposit box. Also our attorney told us when we had our will done that she can't give it to a family member that doesn't know where you keep it. We do keep our WILL in our box.

We were told that family needs the original Will, not a copy. Not sure if that's state specific or something, but our original is kept at my parents' house in their safe rather than at ours. A copy is at ours.
Both sets of parents know this and so does DD's guardian. That way everyone who is involved in the Will knows where it's stored at.

kmurphy2131 · August 2016

brij2006 said:

short+sassy said:

@brij2006, wow! That is a really sad story. I suspect her H would be a controlling jerk about money regardless of the situation and just uses the fact that she makes a bit less money as his excuse. Probably also why he wasn't that thrilled about her raise. From his perspective, now she only makes 15% less than him. His excuse for monetary control has diminished. Though apparently, "in secret", they actually make about the same now.
The one time I could very, very well understand and agree with a spouse hiding monetary assets is in a physically abusive relationship. I realize and hope that isn't your friend's case, but the control and (I'm guessing) emotional abuse reminds me of that.

This is exactly what my H and I said. We knew things were bad after she got the raise, but we didn't know it was to the extent that she was having an affair as well. She had worked very hard to get that promotion and was very open with him that if they could never afford for her to stay home then she was going to go for different promotions and opportunities at her job. So it isn't like this was something he didn't know she was going for. He's also always been more of the dominant type and she the submissive type. So when she started moving up at her job and then got this bigger promotion she felt a lot more self worth and gained a lot more confidence to make bigger decisions, especially with their finances. Which in turn made him feel like he no longer controlled that portion of their marriage.
I've told her that she needs to come clean about the separate account. If they're going to try and work through the affair and remain married then there needs to be zero secrets right now. He will likely be very angry about it. She said her mom is also on the account with her because she wanted someone to know about it if something happened. I told her to have her mom sign off of it before she tells, that way he isn't also angry with her mom.

This is where I personally feel that the whole idea of whenever the other spouse makes more then they will/can have more in their account, is just asking for problems. Why shouldn't the spouse that makes less have the same weight in financial decisions? Not saying that happens with all separate accounts, but joint decisions about finances is a very big thing in a marriage and each spouse needs to feel like they each have equal say in them. My H makes more than I do, but our "fun money" is still the same for each of us. We also discuss and budget in if I want to go to Cali to visit my BFF or he wants to do something to his car. Is it fair and equal down the middle? No. But we discuss these things and plan for them. We know it's important to each other and we don't want the fact that we're married to make it so neither one of us can do the things we enjoy because it isn't coming out of "my" income.

I completely agree with the bolded. When we first moved in together we split everything 50/50 regardless of the fact that I made about $5K more. By the time we got married two years later, I was making $15K more. We had switched to joint finances at that point and had the same amount of "fun money". Now, I brought more money to the table, but also brought loans to the table. It didn't matter, we still split evenly. We had different life circumstances/situations and both worked equally hard just didn't get the same money, because thats not how income works.

Fast forward to year 3 of marriage, my husband now makes about the same as me and next year will likely make $20-30K more than me! But oddly, in a few years if he switches to a management role his base salary will increase but without overtime and extra pay for things he will actually make only 10K more than me. Things can change and flip flop so easily that I think it's easier to just look at it all as joint money.

I also think that I would be pretty sad right now if I had been trying to keep the little more that I made ($5, even $15K isn't much after taxes and split over a year) for myself, because I'm sure he would than do that with $20-30K and that allows for some lifestyle changes for both of us.

LillibetteV · August 2016

brij2006 said:

vlagrl35 said:

short+sassy said:

jtmh2012 said:

short+sassy said:

I don't think I was misunderstood, but did want to clarify that I generally think the amount or any money someone brings in does not make them less of a financial partner, when that is what is agreed to between two people.
SAHMs and SAHDs are good examples of that.

It's nice to see you mention both. I think it's very interesting that it seems acceptable for the wife to stay home without an income providing job, but it's not for a husband to do the same thing.

The one thing I do find question though is do any of the people with separate accounts have plans for what happens should one spouse die either expectedly or unexpectedly. Personally, I think it would suck for the other spouse to have to wait until everything was settled and find themselves locked away from the money in the meantime.

That reminds me, for anyone who has a safety deposit box, make sure there is at least one other signer on it. Just like accounts, banks lock those down in the event of someone's death. There is as much, if not more, paperwork involved and needed before an heir can access a box, as there is for a bank account.
Really, really inconvenient if that is where a person's will is kept! Which is where it often is. Of course, if a will is drawn professionally by a lawyer, I'm assuming there will be a copy in those offices also. But then, that is also assuming your heirs would even know which law firm handled it.

Great reminder I need to have my mother sign as POD for our safe deposit box. Also our attorney told us when we had our will done that she can't give it to a family member that doesn't know where you keep it. We do keep our WILL in our box.

We were told that family needs the original Will, not a copy. Not sure if that's state specific or something, but our original is kept at my parents' house in their safe rather than at ours. A copy is at ours.
Both sets of parents know this and so does DD's guardian. That way everyone who is involved in the Will knows where it's stored at.

That's the case in Massachusetts too. I know some people sign multiple originals so that they can keep them in different locations, but all of the attorneys I know advise against this in the event that the person decides to change their will - if they don't hunt down and destroy all of the originals it can cause some issues in probate.

We still have to do up our wills, but will honestly probably wait until we have kids and at that point we'll leave the original with the guardians.

hoffse · August 2016

LillibetteV said:

We were told that family needs the original Will, not a copy. Not sure if that's state specific or something, but our original is kept at my parents' house in their safe rather than at ours. A copy is at ours.
Both sets of parents know this and so does DD's guardian. That way everyone who is involved in the Will knows where it's stored at.

That's the case in Massachusetts too. I know some people sign multiple originals so that they can keep them in different locations, but all of the attorneys I know advise against this in the event that the person decides to change their will - if they don't hunt down and destroy all of the originals it can cause some issues in probate.

We still have to do up our wills, but will honestly probably wait until we have kids and at that point we'll leave the original with the guardians.

The rules on this are very state-specific. You should consult your attorney or read the laws in your own state.

But yes, general rule is that you don't want the only original copy of your will in a safe deposit box! They can be locked down for an extended period of time, which will often delay probate.

short+sassy · August 2016

With my mom, I don't know if she has just a copy or an original of her will in the safety deposit box. Probably an original. But she has told me it is also where she has all her "go to" information. Her accountant and attorney's name/contact info. List of accounts to be aware of.

She worked for a bank for many years before retiring and saw, firsthand, someone's "mom/dad/husband/wife/child" had passed and they needed to get into the safety deposit box to get the will. However, if they weren't a signer, big nope on that. Totally understandable. But it makes it a much tougher, more lengthy process for those left behind.

Random question: What happens to a safety deposit box if you don't pay the annual fee? Found the answer:

If you did not pay the annual fee on the safe deposit box, it would have been considered dormant once there was no activity—such as payment of the fee—for 2 to 5 years. (The length of time necessary to declare a box dormant is defined by state statute.)

If the property remains unclaimed, the bank may be required to transfer the contents of the safe deposit box to the state treasurer or unclaimed property office. Most states require that the bank send notice of the impending transfer to you at the last address of record on the bank's books.

If you wish to find out if property from your safe deposit box was sent to the state treasurer, contact your applicable state treasurer/unclaimed property office. You can also start your search by visiting www.unclaimed.org.

Me again:

Wow! A much lengthier and more complicated process than not paying the monthly fee on a storage unit, lol. Those just go up for auction after about 2-3 months of no payments. Though I can't say I'm surprised.

vlagrl35 · August 2016

brij2006 said:

vlagrl35 said:

short+sassy said:

jtmh2012 said:

short+sassy said:

I don't think I was misunderstood, but did want to clarify that I generally think the amount or any money someone brings in does not make them less of a financial partner, when that is what is agreed to between two people.
SAHMs and SAHDs are good examples of that.

It's nice to see you mention both. I think it's very interesting that it seems acceptable for the wife to stay home without an income providing job, but it's not for a husband to do the same thing.

The one thing I do find question though is do any of the people with separate accounts have plans for what happens should one spouse die either expectedly or unexpectedly. Personally, I think it would suck for the other spouse to have to wait until everything was settled and find themselves locked away from the money in the meantime.

That reminds me, for anyone who has a safety deposit box, make sure there is at least one other signer on it. Just like accounts, banks lock those down in the event of someone's death. There is as much, if not more, paperwork involved and needed before an heir can access a box, as there is for a bank account.
Really, really inconvenient if that is where a person's will is kept! Which is where it often is. Of course, if a will is drawn professionally by a lawyer, I'm assuming there will be a copy in those offices also. But then, that is also assuming your heirs would even know which law firm handled it.

Great reminder I need to have my mother sign as POD for our safe deposit box. Also our attorney told us when we had our will done that she can't give it to a family member that doesn't know where you keep it. We do keep our WILL in our box.

We were told that family needs the original Will, not a copy. Not sure if that's state specific or something, but our original is kept at my parents' house in their safe rather than at ours. A copy is at ours.
Both sets of parents know this and so does DD's guardian. That way everyone who is involved in the Will knows where it's stored at.

Yes its the same in our state as well. With the safe deposit box we have you can add PODs to it - that's what we have with our parents - if they are a POD they can get in the box. My parents don't have a safe.

bmo88 · August 2016

I guess it really depends on the couple, but wow do people make this quite complicated! As I said before, I don't think it really matters if you have joint or separate finances. How you communicate, work together and approach finances is what matters most.

We are a couple that has very different incomes. I make about $60k more a year than DH at the moment, and in 3 years on my current contract, I will make between $75-$100k more than DH.

And guess what...it doesn't bother either of us! I never hold it over him and we don't split bills according to our incomes. I pay the majority of the bills with my account (since we have separate bank accounts and I remember more often to actually pay the bill) and we save about 80% of DH's income, and 40% of my income.

We are listed as each other's beneficiaries on all counts, so upon death, that is handled. We also have life insurance policies that list each other. We do not have wills yet, but plan to create them in the next year.

I have helped DH pay down about $30k of his student loan debt and during college, he worked (I did work study) and he paid for about 75% of my expenses. It's always been a team effort.

short+sassy · August 2016

All the talk about income differences keeps reminding me of an ex-b/f.

We hadn't been dating for very long and, at one point, we were discussing past relationships. He mentioned he'd had an ex-g/f who was a stripper but, he found that her being a stripper bothered him, so he had to end it. I thought he meant morally and said something to that affect. He quickly corrected me and said, "Oh no! It wasn't that. It bothered me that she made so much more money than I did." Pause for stunned silence on my part. WTF?!? Did we just time travel back to the '50s?

We didn't last much longer after that conversation, lol.

LillibetteV · August 2016

short+sassy said:

All the talk about income differences keeps reminding me of an ex-b/f.
We hadn't been dating for very long and, at one point, we were discussing past relationships. He mentioned he'd had an ex-g/f who was a stripper but, he found that her being a stripper bothered him, so he had to end it. I thought he meant morally and said something to that affect. He quickly corrected me and said, "Oh no! It wasn't that. It bothered me that she made so much more money than I did." Pause for stunned silence on my part. WTF?!? Did we just time travel back to the '50s?
We didn't last much longer after that conversation, lol.

baaaaaaahahaha, that's actually kind of funny - good for her! At least you found out early on! I had an ex that didn't make much money (not that I did either at the time, but it was more than him) and so I regularly treated us to events and dinners that I could afford and I didn't want to skip just because he was broke. After about 6 months he got a new job and a massive raise and was out earning me by a significant amount and yet he never offered to pay for me. In fact I was still picking up the tab or we were splitting it. It wasn't about the money, it was that he was now in a position to be generous and wasn't - someone that I spend my life with should WANT to spoil me even if they can't and he didn't.

jtmh2012 · August 2016

With her degree, my wife should be way out earning me. Should that ever happen, the only problem I'd have with it is I'd need @hoffse to show me how to backdoor our IRAs....

Mustard76 · August 2016

short+sassy said:

All the talk about income differences keeps reminding me of an ex-b/f.
We hadn't been dating for very long and, at one point, we were discussing past relationships. He mentioned he'd had an ex-g/f who was a stripper but, he found that her being a stripper bothered him, so he had to end it. I thought he meant morally and said something to that affect. He quickly corrected me and said, "Oh no! It wasn't that. It bothered me that she made so much more money than I did." Pause for stunned silence on my part. WTF?!? Did we just time travel back to the '50s?
We didn't last much longer after that conversation, lol.

H and I were just talking about this (not the being a stripper part.) He would love nothing more than for me to outearn him, and the sooner the better. He's likely to top out at work within the next 5 years, but there's opportunity for me to grow every year that I'm here. I don't understand men like your ex bf at all. The only reason I "compete" with my husband to earn more than he does is because I have a degree and he doesn't. But he puts his life on the line every time he puts on the uniform, so he earns it.

hoffse · August 2016

To clarify, I out-earn my husband by a pretty significant margin at the moment. It doesn't bother me at all, now that he's putting his potential to good use.

I did NOT like those two years where he putzed around and "forgot" to sign up for the LSAT because he was trying to decide what he wanted to do. I told him I didn't care what he did, but he needed to do something where he was using his potential. He had a job where he basically sat at a desk and watched reruns of Southpark for 2 years. That was not using either his earning potential or creative potential. Now he uses both. He practices law and composes on the side. I couldn't be happier with what he's doing, and I don't feel the need for him to earn more.

And I'll hold up my end of the bargain and do the same. I spent a lot of time, money, and energy on my degrees, and it's only fair to my H that I leverage them for our financial well-being.

The other thing here is that my H's happiness directly relates to how busy and challenged he is. He would get in these dark moods for weeks at a time at the Southpark job. He hasn't had a mood like that since starting law school 5 years ago because he is busy and his brain is engaged. The same thing happens to me.

I think @short+sassy has the patience of a saint.

hoffse · August 2016

jtmh2012 said:

With her degree, my wife should be way out earning me. Should that ever happen, the only problem I'd have with it is I'd need @hoffse to show me how to backdoor our IRAs....

Deal

cbee817 · August 2016

I earn about 2x what DH does right now- it'll probably remain that way as long as he stays teaching. The only way it would really change is if he went into administration but it doesn't seem like something he's interested in especially with the girls being young and needing care all summer (he is the best SAHD in the summer btw). It's always been that way so we don't really know any difference- we make a good team and that's what matters.

labro · August 2016

My H outearns me by a pretty decent margin...especially when we take his annual bonus into consideration...but he's also in IT and there's just no catching up to that unless I were to go back to school for a master's degree and change my field of work. It doesn't affect our expenditures though...we both get an equal amount of "fun" money in our budget to spend on whatever we'd like that isn't already covered by a particular category in YNAB. Our salary differences don't really matter in the big picture though, like @cbee817 said, we're a team and that is what's important. We strive for the same financial goals and we're in this together.

brij2006 · August 2016

I out earned H when we first moved in together. Then he was laid off for 9 months and played World of Warcraft till 4am while I worked my butt off at my sales job in the evenings and my full time job during the day. Boy was it rough. @short+sassy I don't know how you do it. Seriously. You're so patient.

Once H's emergency fund ran out he was forced to go back to work. He was severely depressed at that point and it was rough on both of us. Thankfully his new job allowed him much more opportunities for growth and he uses his skills. He now loves what he does and out earns me by only a few thousand (depending on the year), but we both remember that dark dark time in our relationship. So like @hoffse we know that we both have to be using our full potential and be challenged or else things will get bad. This is where I'm afraid to stay home if/when we have #2. I like being challenged and having accountability.

smetter04 · August 2016

At the risk of sounding like a broken record on this thread, my DH is also in IT and out-earns me, but what we earn individually doesn't matter to us. It's all about the needs, wants and goals of our marriage and future family. We opened a joint checking account when we got engaged to manage wedding expenses more easily/fairly, and when we got married we opened a joint savings account. DH brought debt into the marriage; I didn't. But it became 'our' debt and we used both our incomes to pay it off, and because of that we're now able to easily meet other needs that have come up (replacing my car, renovating the bathroom, etc) and ultimately this moves us closer to being ready to start a family. I've toyed with the idea of budgeting in separate 'fun money', but in our current situation it wouldn't be helpful. I think it will become more of a need once we have children and our family income changes.

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