Family Matters
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Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Re: Anyone change their names BACK, or hyphenate?
I would say one major goal of feminism is not to tie people rigid gender stereotypes or norming, like you have done.
I really don't think you have the first clue as to what the feminist movement is about at all.
Sorry, I gotta say something. I agree about the husband and wife becoming one flesh, or a unit, but where, oh where, does it say anything in the Bible about the woman changing her name to the man's? If anything, some might say that the man should his name to the woman's or they should pick a new one, or at least that's one way or interpreting the rest of the passage that you quoted from. If the man leaves his family, why is he keeping their name?
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
Genesis 2:24 (New International Version)
I'm not saying that I believe anyone has to do anything about what I just said, or that there's a right and a wrong, I just wanted to point out the rest of the verse because I think it's funny that people like to quote the Bible when it doesn't actually say the woman should take the man's last name.
Sorry if I just ticked anybody off, that was't my intent.
I use both, no hyphen and I answer to both. My last name is ethnic and uncommon; his is as common as you can get! He was sensitive about it and I had no trouble blending the two. Also, I had one name for 40 years and couldn't quite part with it.
I tend to get both especially at work because I'm a teacher and the kids still refer to me as my maiden name, which is on my email and door, even though my certificate has both names on it. It is rather humorous when they page "Mrs." and the kids pan around the room looking for some stranger.
If you object to your current name, then I would suggest you pick a family name from either side to change to. That way, there is still some tradition in the name.
And I am sorry that this is causing you stress!
I don't know where you're getting the idea that anyone here wants people to be "asexual" (nor do I think you understand what that term means, given your use of it here). I also don't know what you mean by " guy being a guy and a girl being a girl," which also makes no sense here. You can do what you want with your/his name, and the beauty of it is that everyone else gets to do the same. My question to you is, why should you care if someone chooses to keep her name? Why do you care if a man chooses to take his wife's name? Or if a couple choose a new name altogether? How does any of those choices make them any less of a unit?
I don't think taking your husband's name makes you is "property," I just never felt compelled to change my own name. It doesn't make me insecure, nor does it mean I love my husband any less, and it certailnly doesn't make us any less of a unit.
I always swore I'd never change my name if I got married. My son has my maiden name and I wanted to maintain that respect for my parents and my son and represent the solid unit that we have always been. However, I never expected to meet a man as wonderful as my husband. I didn't want to disrespect our new union, and I didn't want to disrespect my son, so after months of hemming and hawing, I moved my maiden name to my second middle name, so like many of the women who commented before me, I have four names: First Middle Maiden Married. This way, with regards to my son, I can identify as First Maiden Married and in the rest of my life I go by First Married.
As for the comments for women who see their maiden name as a sign of their father's ownership, I personally don't see it that way, but then I have an excellent relationship with my dad. I can't imagine life without my maiden name as part of my life to pay honor to my heritage and family.
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The more I think about this, the more it bothers me. I had to come back and comment again. I'm wondering how old you are. 22-23? The reason I ask is because this seems very selfish and immature to me. NOT the fact that you don't want to take your husband's name, women of all ages choose to do different things for an infinite number of reasons. But it seems to me that your reasons for wanting to change are immature and not well thought out. You say you have a problem with the fact that it is sexist, but you must not have had such a problem with it a year ago when you got married and changed your name. Basically what it seems to boil down to is:
1) You "had" to do something you are not happy with, so you expect DH to have to do something he is not happy with either to make it "equal" and
2) You "hate" your FIL so much that you "refuse" to let your kids have the same last name as him.
Regarding #1 - it's stupid reasoning, plain and simple. If you really hate your new last name, change it, but don't expect DH to be happy about it or willing to change his. Why should he? It's been his name his whole life, he is attached to it, and he always expected it to be his name. I'm sure he never even comtemplated that some selfish woman might come along and demand that he change it, especially over a year AFTER he got married to her.
#2 - this is also VERY immature. How can you "hate" him so much if he's not in your lives anyway? And it would be one thing if you wanted to break ties with your own father. But it's not your father, it's his, and it's his complicated family relationship. So stop trying to make it about you by inserting your demands and expectations into the equation. When it comes to your husband's problems, you should be supportive of him. If he was the one who didn't want to name his kids after his father, fine, then you should support that. But he obviously does, probably because he believes his last name is HIS last name (and YOUR last name too), not his father's. And just because he happens to have a crappy family member doesn't mean he should be denied the privilege of having his children share his last name. Hopefully you are waiting a few more years to have kids, and by that time you will have more maturity and will be able to see the situation more clearly...you shouldn't punish your husband for havng a bad father.
If I had any advice to give you, it would be to wait a while before making a decision and/or stirring up trouble and hurt feelings with your husband. My bet is that you will get over it.
So, it's ok to keep your name as long as your husband isn't a "wonderful" man, and not taking his name means you "disrespect" your new union? Whoa
I suppose that came out wrong, but that's what I get for attempting to post while cross-eyed after reading 5 pages of this madness.
I suppose what I meant was that I always swore I'd never change my name because, quite frankly, I never thought I'd actually ever get married. It was easy to say I'd never change my name if I never really thought the situation to do so would ever arise. I didn't think I'd ever trust someone enough to want to make a lifelong commitment and I never thought I'd be considering the possibility of having more children with a man who would actually be there and raise his kids (as well as my son). Now that I have found someone to spend my life with and have a new family unit, I have decided to take his name as part of my own to respect that. Don't read so much into my delirium.
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I fail to see how having a different last name from my husband breaks down the morals and traditions of our country. It is somehow *immoral* not to take my husband's last name? WTH? And I fail to see the benefit of doing something simply because others before me have done it. My mother dropped out of school to get married, as did her mother. Tradition? Perhaps. But it's nothing I choose to replicate.
No, when you love someone, you look forward to sharing your life with them, not your last name. You follow your tradition if you so choose, but don't judge me (or blame me for the erosion of morals) for not following it. I grew up with friends and family who had different last names than one or both of their parents, and it was no big deal, for them or for the rest of us who had to remember their mom's last name.
Re: the post about men being proud of their last names, especially those in the military. Well, my husband is in the military, and while he may be proud of his last name, I am equally proud of mine, and I worked for more years than I care to remember to be called "Dr Mylastname."
I am proud of him and he is proud of me; his last name is better than mine (easier to pronounce); I love him; and we are each other's family. However, I *still* chose to keep my last name. My name, my choice. I would never dictate to him what to do with his last name, and I could not have married a man who would dictate to me what to do with mine.
It is not sexist when a person changes their name by their own choice. I personally feel that it doesn't matter if one person is doing it, they chose to change it, and that is not sexist.
I agree with Emerald in that taking a name is for family, and starting starting your lives together as your new family. And I also think that disliking a name just because it is associated with a person that you dislike is absurd.
And as for refusing to name your children with your DH's last name just because of the FIL, it sounds like that could cause a major issue in your marriage, plus, just because your kids have the same name as your FIL doesn't mean that they will be anything like him. Their last name isn't going to determine what their morals are or how their personality turns out.
I am 46 years old and just got marreid this year. I decided to take my husbands name even though I've had and continue to have a very successful career using my maiden name. I decided to do it because as I age I find it that it will be easier if we both have the same name. Social security, beneficiaries, -- public documents etc.. The only person who is putting pressure on yourself is you because you've allowed "them" to get to you and question who you are. I'm of the big believer that a name does not define you. You can still be a feminist even you have your husbands name. You are feminst because you believe in women's issues and rights -- and whatever else you practice -- but your name does not define you. I think you might be slightly overreacting. I've marched for equal rights around the White House in the 70's, 80's and continued to support ERA. Taking my husband's name does not erase all that or suddently change my viewpoints on women's issues. You will also see that as you proceed through life with a different name than your husbands you will always have to explain that you two are married -- just like you have to spell his name! A year isn't a long time and I think you should give it more time before you change it back. And I think it is alot to ask him to change his name simply because you don't want his name. If that is your personal preference not to take his name than change yours to whatever you like. If this is such a problem for you, and you are such a feminist that this is an issue -- one might ask you -- why did you get married and not just live together? After all isn't that what most "feminist" do??????
I debated this issue to death with DH, and it was similar for me: I felt it unfair that I was expected to change my name but he wasn't. So we agreed to both make my maiden name a second middle name. My side of the family tends to address things sent to me to First MyName HisName. I think they think I have two last names, or they know how much I wanted to keep it part of my name so they make sure to use it. When I finally get around to filing all the paperwork for my name, I'll have my maiden name in there. And I need to figure out if I can change his the same way, or is there a different process for men? I've read that they have to go through a more complex system.
My lawyer cousin has told me that if all those names are on my SS and license, I can choose whatever combo I want in different situations. She did something similar and her paychecks are still issued to her maiden name since she uses that professionally.
always a fascinating debate...
You say you marched for women's rights so how you can be so misuninformed?
The only thing that 'most feminists' do is think for themselves. Some get married, some don't, some are queer and some are straight. The problem here is that I did NOT think for myself a year ago, I got swept up in the wedding planning and society's expectations. Now, when the madness has subsided, I realize the huge error in judgement I made.
But, please, think first before you make such crass sweeping generalizations about feminists, this group you 'claim' to belong to.
I have several reasons.
I made a huge error in judgment when taking his last name, explained in the pp, and now would like to remedy it.
However, there are other reasons such as I hate it, it is extremely long and I refuse to spell it for the rest of my life. Yes, this is silly but it's horrible.
In addition, there is the FIL thing and it doesn't matter what you guys think about it, I don't want to associate my husband/future children with him.
My mom's family, basically my only family, all have a different name than me so I don't feel this connection.
With my husband, I don't WANT the connection.
With leaves me with either picking a new name or creating one out of our two last names, both ideas which are growing in popularity.
And, as an aside,
I really didn't think that this would turn into the biggest deal that it did.
I assume part of it is because The Nest chose to put it in their email.
But still.......
I originally did not want to change my last name, I was 34 when I got married last year and no one knows me by my married name...I knew that was going to happen. However, my husband wanted me to take his last name. I totally understand your reasons for not wanting to take your hubby's last name and that they are not related to him. I looked at the name change as a way to honor my husband. He was willing to compromise with me hyphenating, but in the end what I chose to do was move my maiden name to my middle name. So I have two middle names. This may not work for everyone, but I have a total of 13 letters if you add all of my names together, so it worked out perfect.
I think you should keep talking to your husband about your situation, he may come around to the idea of selecting a new name for the two of you and your new family. I think it sounds cool!
Good luck and be well!
Historically, there actually IS something that makes you property by taking your husband's last name---back in the time before feminism, women were considered the property of their fathers until they were "given away" (notice how it's worded) to their husbands. In England (read, the country on which Americans based our legal system), women were considered to be chattel and were handed off as such. This is why, in England, men could legally beat their wives with a ruler the size of their thumbs (also known as the rule of thumb), just like they might beat an animal or a slave. In case you forgot your history lessons, the feminist movement made domestic violence, rape, and marital rape illegal. In other words, the feminist movement was presumptuous enough to say that women are people who are equal to men and should be treated not like property but like humans with free will. That women are human, period. Before feminism, women couldn't get a credit card or open a bank account without a man. If you're interested in knowing what life was like before feminism, let me know. I've got lots of great reading suggestions to get you up to speed on women's history.
All that said, I don't have any problem with someone else taking their husband's name. It's a personal choice. But don't go saying it isn't rooted in sexist traditions because that's just inaccurate.
Here's what I find interesting:
I see a lot of phrasing here where women have "reached a compromise" with their husbands, i.e.; convinced him that they could hyphenate.
I find this really unfortunate. I chose to keep my maiden name because I have published under it, it's easier to spell and pronounce, and I do not believe I should be forced to do something just because it is a social norm. There is also a feminist element to it. But the hubs was fine with it; he was a little disappointed but ultimately respected my wishes and there was no "need" for a compromise.
If your husband supports all of your decisions, no matter what they may be, then you've got a good family/life together in a way that matters far more than what is written on your mailbox.
Now, have I gotten a lot of dirty looks from his family and carefully addressed envelopes from them? Yes. But I stick by my decision, and so does he.
I'm still curious to know how your husband would feel to see you taking it back. I identifiy with not getting along with a FIL, but if that's the case, why did you take his name to begin with? Did something happen with the FIL after the marriage to make you change your mind? I'm just worried about your DH's feelings here.
This thread has prompted a debate between the two of us about what our kids name's will be. Fascinating.
PS - Don't knock 23 year olds too terribly hard.
I changed my name to my husband's name and have no regrets- though I admit it was a tough battle. I come from a small family as does H. Because H's name is a little... odd
, my father was a police officer for 25 + years and the fact that I am a teacher my parents were quite hessitant. Needless to say- I took it anyway because I too was the girl who doodled my name in hearts with my boyfriends last name. H was my high school sweetheart so my parents knew him well before we got married.
I know I wouldn't change it back even though students give me some grief about it- but you have to have a sense of humor. You made the decision in the beginning for a reason and I expect it was a good one. I considered hyphenating but 10 letters +6 more is just plain long.
If for no other reason I hope you get some comic relief- after all you could have gotten married to the man of your dreams and morphed into a Hooker all in the same day!
This right here made the ENTIRE thread completely worthwhile!!!!
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Maybe someone should help you clarify your real reasons you have stated throughout this post as to why you want to change your name back:
You "hate" your Father in Law: Chances are your own last name is attached to some undesirable people and even if you make a new on you really will want to research it because there are BILLIONS of people in this world.
It's not fair that he doesn't have to change something too: This is the most immature thing I have ever heard. Marriage is about doing things you don't really want to and about doing things FOR your husband just as much as it is about husbands doing things for their wives that they don't want to. THIS is not a true excuse unless you are really just one of those people who keeps score,and in that case you are in for a LONG road ahead.
It has roots in sexism and ownership: White it has roots in sexism and ownership, it isn't that way anymore in 99% of the cases. Women across the world change their names because they want to, and that is the anti-sexism. Changing your name to your husband's last name is now more about family, unity, and heritage. If you create a new last name for both of you, in 100 years your lineage could be lost on you - do you want that? If you go back to your own family name that is your choice but you already stated you had no connection to your maiden name which reverts me back to the whole "it's not fair so i'm going to change it back just to make a statement"
Do you see now how your reasons are kind of backwards and aren't really solidly grounded in the true nature of sexism? The act of changing one's name is not sexist until the man demands it and says you MUST follow.
The fact that you have already changed it because you felt you should (no one forced you - your own thoughts and preconceptions about marriage made you) in order to make him happy does not mean it was sexist. We do things all the times for our husbands that make them happy that doesn't really bother us, but we do it because it makes them feel good.
As i said, i could see keeping your maiden name if you had a serious connection (professionally or personally) but you said you don't. So if you are going to change it tong random, why not let him enjoy you having his name?