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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
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Re: Let's talk about MEEEE!
My lawyer friend Christin can probably give me a family law atty number! (another ETA: the more I think about it, I have quite a few attorney connections, some looser than others. Twan's friends are all sciencey people or in sales, so I will probably have the advantage here.)
Cali, I'm debating whether I plan to play online with his XBox account and eff up his Call of Duty stats. I know it seems like no big deal, but he would throw a fit. And it's not like I've stolen or destroyed property. I don't think you can press charges for XBox stats fukcery.
I've already deleted stuff of his off the DVR. But I guess if he's not coming back, he'll never know.
I should take his college diploma since he wouldn't have it without me.
I also wrote a letter that listed all of our happy memories and put it in his box of cards and notes I've written him. I assume he will only get that when he moves everything out (or in theory if he moves back in). I'm hoping he finds it when it's too late and it makes him cry. I guess it could also make me look pathetic and sappy, but I'll take the chance that I might actually get to cause HIM some pain for once. (this doesn't really qualify for revenge, though, does it?)
ETA: Toot, please read my sig. I am a raging b!tch and horrible wife; this has always been common knowledge.
"As of page 2 this might be the most boring argument ever. It's making me long for Rape Day." - Mouse
I know that this board is very "you made your vows! stick it out, weakling!" and I thought if I was being too emotional and demanding, you guys would knock me back in line.
This board is very much into that, but you've been doing that. I would like to yell at Twan about sticking to his vows and being a weakling (amongst other things), but not at you. Can you make an appointment with an attorney for next week, and then if he somehow has magically come around on Sunday and you don't feel the need for it, cancel?
I am so sorry. So sorry. My advice is to kick him in the balls. I have some steel toed shoes you can borrow.
I also think he's manipulating you, with the "backing into a corner," and saying he doesn't know if he ever did really love you, and asking about your credit card charges. If he asks you about any more charges, I would say that became none of his concern when he left the house.
I would also talk to a lawyer soon. You want to be prepared. I also think his student loans will be considered non-marital debt if he had them when you got married.
The nerve!
House | Blog
I could say that I would, but being honest, no I probably won't call until next week. I did fill out a request form for a seller's agent since I'm more worried about the process of selling the house than the particulars of the divorce. Because if we don't make any money off the sale, there won't be much to split.
"As of page 2 this might be the most boring argument ever. It's making me long for Rape Day." - Mouse
Toot- if you are ever in the Boston area I would love to meet up and punch you in the throat. You are so vile.
Fent- I think you are being really stong and I admire how hard you have been working on your marriage. You have certainly tried to be understanding and accomadating when I am sure has been very painful. I think it is smart to meet with a lawyer just in case though so you are well prepared so whatever the outcome is on Sunday.
Don't worry, Fent. Toot started her life over ::insert dramatic music here:: You can too.
P.S. I'm really sorry you have to go through all of this. I don't have any wisdom that hasn't been offered, but it just sucks hard.
I agree you need to talk with a lawyer. i would also get an accurate listing of all your investments, etc. and document what is going on right now.
Do you think if you filed he would protest?
Obviously MO may be different, but re: the financial questions thrown around, in Oklahoma this is how it worked for me.
Any debt or financial gains created during the marriage were marital debt/property, regardless of the name on the account (with the exception of inheritance). This included his massive CC debt and my 401k theoretically. Any debt/property owned prior to the marriage (i.e., student loans), were personal debt/property.
More importantly, after the divorce was filed and until it was finalized, I couldn't make any major changes to the finances (sell the house, drop insurance coverage, etc.) so if you want to do that and you're both in agreement, it may be a better idea to do so before anything is filed. However, in OK, if a married person buys or refinances a home, their spouse has to be listed on the title, whether they are divorcing / on the loan or not.
His latest 401k statement came in the mail today. Should I open it and photocopy it? Or as long as I have old statements with the account number, he'll be legally bound to produce a recent statement anyway? (This is where you yell at me to get a lawyer and ask him/her.)
Our counselor told us we would just need a mediator, not two attorneys (unless one of us wants to fight for something in particular, I guess). Is a mediator just an attorney that works for both people?
"As of page 2 this might be the most boring argument ever. It's making me long for Rape Day." - Mouse
I don't know. I would make him file. A) it's my understanding that the person who files has less power. If you're the defendant, you're the one being "left" and therefore the benefit of the doubt goes to you in most cases. I could be wrong on that.
I'm hesitant to give him an easy out of "my wife left me." I know if I'm done, I shouldn't care how he rationalizes it or twists it, and the people who know both of us will hear the truth. But I still want him to have to live with this as something HE did.
"As of page 2 this might be the most boring argument ever. It's making me long for Rape Day." - Mouse
Legally speaking, I don't think A is true.
I would probably photocopy the statement, but that's just me. Nobody verified any of our accounts stuff or made any talk of doing so (but we settled amicably and my lawyer drew up the settlement papers for us to both sign).
Unfortunately, there's nothing either of you can do to prevent the other from spending/selling/buying/etc with mutual assets until something is filed and a temporary order is in place. This includes borrowing from your 401k to pay for the costs of the divorce/move/etc., selling vehicles, etc.
You should be able to subpoena (or more likely just do document requests) for all financial documents.
A mediator is like a judge lite--someone who looks at the case and makes a determination of how things should be split--or sometimes someone who helps the parties negotiate to come to a compromised settlement. I know a lot of people divorce without representation, but (maybe b/c I'm a lawyer) I think that is really unwise. Divorce, even under the best of circumstances, is emotionally chaotic and adversarial, and I think each party should have someone who knows the law looking out for his/her best interests objectively. I've seen cases where one attorney represented both parties, an I just question the ethics of that.
All of this seems to be based on some assumption. And you know if you assume, you make an ass out of Uma Thurman. So I am going to now yell at you to talk with an attourney (or a mediator)
My parents used a mediator. I have no clue what the difference is I just know they had agreed on all the "stuff" already and on joint custody of me and my brother. I know they said it was easier and cheaper.
I'm sorry this is happen. Twan sounds like a lost little kid. You should go buy all your friends dinner at some fancy restaurant and put it on the card.
A is not true, at least in Illinois. Courts generally look at what is nost equitable in divorce cases, regardless of who files. Filing (or making the separation legal would let you legally kibosh him adding to joint debt or depleting joint funds, so if that's something you worry about, keep it in mind.
As to B, I hear you there, but I don't want you to eff up what's in your long term financial interests for a short term emotional decision. And chances are, he'll rationalize it as your fault anyway. That's what people do.
In not-so-short, take care of you.
He is fvcking with your head.
WTF did he want separate credit cards?
And WTF was he checking what you were spending and insinuating that you have been out dating? Oh because it is okay for him to emotionally check out of the marriage but you my dear can not even thinking about doing that.
By the way, my counselor alluded to this issue and said it may be a factor in my own problems (not that he said women should stay home and not work, but that in general men are confused about the role they're supposed to play these days; they don't fit their parents' model and aren't sure what the new normal is, so they stagnate in extended youth):
http://theweek.com/article/index/210105/female-super-earners-bad-for-marriage
It repeats a lot of what he said, so I thought I'd share.
"As of page 2 this might be the most boring argument ever. It's making me long for Rape Day." - Mouse
I'd love to know the answer to this (and to meet these secure men).
I think it may very well be part of it. I don't make a lot more money than he does, but I have a much higher potential ladder to climb and I also put in significantly more hours and do stuff like networking events (since I am trying to keep moving up and making more money). There are far fewer higher-up positions in his line of work and they don't open up often, plus I feel like I'm more ambitious than he is (not that he's a slug; he has gotten promotions at work. I just feel it's more of a major life goal for me).
I think no matter what, I need to go to one more therapy session jointly. If it does fall apart, I need some kind of explanation. I could go nuts analyzing this for the rest of my life.
"As of page 2 this might be the most boring argument ever. It's making me long for Rape Day." - Mouse
"That chick wins at Penises, for sure." -- Fenton
I think my counselor's view was that our culture needs more masculine role models that are comfortable with women's education and ambition. He used Homer Simpson as an example that pop culture shows that it's OK to be an irresponsible buffoon. Meanwhile our parents and grandparents are more likely to give antiquated examples and their opinions on gender, marriage, and how men should deal with emotions aren't all that helpful.
In my looking up books that I could read about anything and everything that might be a factor, I came across this group that does a warrior weekend where they teach men to be masculine and strong, but how to process and express their emotions at the same time. Maybe I should sign Twan up for their mailing list: http://mankindproject.org/
"As of page 2 this might be the most boring argument ever. It's making me long for Rape Day." - Mouse
That's my thought too. Also, I hate how it's the men who are focused on as being affected by cultural changes like this. The change basically means that now women are expected to be professionally motivated, successful and high earners in addition to being perfect moms and nurturers and keepers of house, while men just need to come to terms with not always being the bigshots and holding the power in every situation.
Men: swallow pride, accept equality. Women: Meet impssibly high expectations. I know I'm oversimplifying a little, bur really, who's getting the bum end of that deal? Such bullsh*t.
That is hands down, the number one issue in our marriage. Brett is very sensitive about it and I have learned to be careful with my phrasing, etc, but I know it still bothers him. When we get 401k statements and stuff, he makes comments about the difference. It's all our money, dude!
I don't really get it. We always knew I would make more, and we planned on it. I just don't think he realized how it would make him feel.
The nerve!
House | Blog
Photocopy anything you think you might possibly need. What starts out as amicable can turn at any moment and I know way too many women who got screwed on hidden assets. Especially in my extended family.
It's unbelievably demeaning to have to wait around to have someone "decide" they love you. Even if he turned around tomorrow and said he made a mistake that would not eradicate the broken trust and the feeling that you'd always have to be on your "best behavior" to keep his love. I think what he's done to the relationship at this point is pretty irreparable.
I don't know about the "board" but I am not of the school of thought that you took vows so you do whatever to save the marriage. Some marriages are not meant to be saved when your self-esteem is being trampled on. That is emotional abuse in my book and I don't think anyone deserves that and it isn't your issue to work on. Usually when a guy says all the things he's said, he's already made up his mind (like some others have said), yet doesn't want to be the one to say it. In the process you're always feeling like if you just did this or this, it would have never came to this. But, they stay while they're feeling ambivilant only to tell you about once they've reached the point of no return. Women usually want to talk, talk, talk, so the guy gets a million chances before she decides it's time to go and he's not blindsided. That's just been my experience.
Only you know how much you're willing to take, but three months, three weeks, six months....the trust is still going to be broken, you'd need your own therapist to get over the fear this could happen again at any time...and really, it tends to. I feel like once a guy goes as far as he has- moving out, imagining life on his own to the point where it doesn't seem that bad, getting the new credit card, that "single life" think is just a hop, skip and jump away. It's like it's been said about murder- the first one is the hardest, the next just get easier and easier. He's done the hard part once. He can move back in and resume your life, but my question would be how easy would it be for him to do it again when he got the itch. It's not just what's happening NOW, it's what would happen in the future. Obviously, no one has guarantees but that's why there IS a point of no return. Because it can't just be an open door policy and I'd be worried about wasted time. Wasting time now, unknowingly, taking him back, then him deciding a year, two years, five, down the road that this isn't what he wanted. I think it would be a lot uglier then because you'd both be resentful of perceived "wasted time".
It can't be his decision at this point or you will have no self-worth left. That isn't even the person HE married.