Caribbean Nesties
Dear Community,
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Re: Guess who wants to move home
I wish you the best fenton. While I think you have gotten a lot of sound advice from many people here, in the end you are the only one who really knows what is going on in the trenches here. You must listen to yourself and your intuition and not be swayed by his words or emotions. Actions are key. he has put you through a lot and this is not something to take lightly and obviously you see it the same way. but I am sure when the emotions of Christmas and all of that kick in, it is going to have an affect on you.
Oh god no. I tried to put out of my head how intolerable I find most people and how terrible dating would be. I did think about the possibility of landing someone with a million dollar house, but all I thought about was the house not the person I would share it with. I did think back to the times I thought, "Wouldn't it be fun to be 30 and single and date, just for a day?" and I realized, no. It would not be fun. I'd do it if I had to, but it would be a grin and bear it situation. A first date sounds like an utter nightmare to me.
And actually, the place I decided I would move wasn't downtown. It was closer to downtown, but all those old apartments don't have washer and dryer hookups in the units. You have to go to the basement -- GROSS. I have grown too accustomed to the luxuries of county living.
Christin, don't make suggestions that you have absolutely no intention of following through on. COMMON, you'd be laying on your bed with your ass in the air within the week.
The plan is for him to sleep at our house Christmas Eve and Christmas night (I agree, no humping yet). But I'm not sure if he should come to my family parties or not. I will go to his, mainly because I want to see my nieces and I don't want them to be confused. I do have to talk to my parents and tell them what's going on. I may just not say anything and let them make a suggestion for Christmas. It's their holiday, too, and I don't want to make it weird (either with him there or through his absence). I don't think I will make any decision based on how I feel at Christmas, but I also think that something that helps us feel closer isn't necessarily a bad thing. Plus, fewer questions from my extended family. I'm glad I have a couple of days to think about it.
"As of page 2 this might be the most boring argument ever. It's making me long for Rape Day." - Mouse
"That chick wins at Penises, for sure." -- Fenton
It is unbearable.
I do agree that the root cause of all of this sounds like depression for him, which will need professional help to resolve, even if he has gotten a grip for now.
This is exactly my fear. I've been there and the failed reconciliation can hurt more than the actual split. And this is as someone who then realized they never wanted to reconcile in the first place and was guilted into it.
Husbands should be like Kleenex: Soft, strong, and disposable.
Don't lie, Winged. The real typo was when you left out "into bed."
Incite him, but don't invite him into bed, Fent! Put on your sexy new Cali underpants and get him all worked up, then shut him down. That'll teach him!
Husbands should be like Kleenex: Soft, strong, and disposable.
Regardless of my "postition" on this board I'd like to offer my advice....If that's alright.
I'm of the opinion that he not attend Christmas (with your family). I'll admit when TD and I broke up I was so convinced that it was going to work that when he begged to come back my first thought was "You must apologize to my family..." it was never "you need to apologize to me" it was always about someone else. Looking back I realize that deep down I knew we weren't going to work, but I was still in Let's try and convince everyone else mode.
TD was just a boyfriend and Twan is your husband so things on a commitment level are very different. His obligation is now to you. His priority is now you because he undid this life, he forever made a mark on your marriage that will always be there to look back on. That is something that you need to ask yourself about can and will you be able to get past those words of "I never really loved you". Can you look at him with 100% love and trust again after everything that was said and done?
The fact that he can dismantle your life in a matter of weeks and then with a few tears and some sadness attempt to rebuild it in a matter of days is terrifying. I agree with Mulva when she mentions depression. The ups and downs and highs and lows is extreme so in addition to making you his priority he needs to make himself a priority. And to be honest really gauge his reaction when you mention getting help to him. In a perfect world he should 100% agree that he needs personal help, and not to make his mom feel better but because he just about divorced his wife in a very short period of time.
If he can't see that his emotional break down just about ruined his marriage and agree to fix it, he won't be able to change his ways or meet your expectations when it comes to communication or emotional change.
Good luck fenton you are a strong woman and will in the end make the choice that's right for you.
"As of page 2 this might be the most boring argument ever. It's making me long for Rape Day." - Mouse
This is all a very good point. Can you sort out what you want out of this/how you need to feel to make this work and let him figure out how to make that happen?
Husbands should be like Kleenex: Soft, strong, and disposable.
You have to speak to him in terms of what you need emotionally or otherwise but not what he has to do. It is kind of the same thing in the end, but how you express it makes the difference between a request and a command.
And I agree about unprompted actions. That is why giving him a general idea of your overall need rather than a laundry list of specific requests is probably going to be more telling about his committment in the end.
He doesn't get to call you bossy when he wouldn't make any decisions on his own. That's a copout.
You're already attempting to accommodate him and I don't think you should be. You shouldn't let him back into the house or your life until you can confidently say, "This is what I want. This is what I need from you. Here are the rules. If you can't abide by them, then get out." Remember that nothing you said or did caused his depression.
"That chick wins at Penises, for sure." -- Fenton
You need to tell him what you need but not how to do it. Can you counselor help you work through some wording. I think that making it very clear that he chose the life he has right now is important. He is going to try and shift this around on you (sounds like he already has by saying you are bossy). It is important that you remember that this is not about you at all. Sure there are things that you made decide to work on for your own personal growth but you didn't make him check out of his marriage. You didn't make him chose to leave his wife.
You may feel the need to give him a huge list but cut it back. Get back to basics. What are the top 3 things that you really need. It is easier to digest and not get overwhelmed and just give up if it is only a handful of things. I am not saying give up on the other 50 things but just be realistic about how much you can both handle right now.
I don't think the bossy thing has anything to do with not telling him how to fix things. I think coming up with things to do on his own is one of the many things he needs to do to prove he's all in the marriage. Presenting him with a laundry list would likely lead to him doing them with no feeling behind them and then possibly relapsing into this again down the road.
So things like "I need to know I'm first in your life. Not your mother, not your parents, not your job, not [xyz]." and him figuring out how to show that is going to have way more impact than "I need to know I'm first in your life, so no more asking your mom's advice on every little thing or getting guilted into attending every family party."
And that's obviously just an example. I don't know what you actually need from him.
If he can't come up with these things on his own (or with a counselor's help), he's not really committed to fixing it.
Husbands should be like Kleenex: Soft, strong, and disposable.
You've gotten a lot of really great advice here. I definitely agree that you need to protect yourself first, and not make any decisions over the warm and fuzzies you get from Christmas.
I am so sorry that you may be dealing with a depressed partner, but he can't just use that as an excuse, and you shouldn't let him. I did some really shiity things to Brett when I was at my lows. But I did them, and I need to take responsibility and earn his trust back because those things still happened. It was hell on him to live with me and that is honestly that worst thing about it for me, is thinking about what I put him through.
I don't really know what my point is here, but I guess I agree with mulva. Proceed with caution and don't let him off the hook too easily.
As for the bossy thing. Bullshiit. It takes two to tango with bossiness, because someone has to let themselves get bossed around. I know exactly what you're talking about with the indecisiveness, and then complaining about it later. I do think telling him more abstract things instead of concrete things to do is a good start.
The nerve!
House | Blog
I was going to say this EXACT thing. You know, I'm probably one of the bossiest (shocking, I know) people on the planet. And while my H and I may bicker sometimes about what a pain in the arse I am, at some level, he has accepted that this is the lunatic that he married. People don't change their characteristics. They just don't. We all assert respective "roles" in our marriages (or relationships) and this was yours. He was fine w/ that until he needed a "reason" to give you for the decision to bail.
He never put it like, "You were bossy, so I left." It was more like, There were things that bothered me (such as feeling bossed around) that I never addressed and they built up and I lashed out. He agreed that it was his fault for not telling me how he felt and what he wanted.
I'm not blaming myself, but I can't ask him to be responsible for his mistakes and see no fault at all in how I function. He can be indecisive, but I have to admit I've steamrolled him on a couple of things. There are times when I assumed he had no opinion and just went ahead with something. The bulk of this is on him to grow up, but I have to give him room to do that. Not by becoming a dainty little flower, but in my wording; like instead of "Here's what we're doing..." and then waiting for him to say, "No, wait, I would rather...," I should say, "Here's what I'd like to do." I wouldn't bet any significant amount of money I'll be able to stick to this 100% of the time, but it doesn't hurt to be aware of it and put in some effort.
I also pointed out that when I get a little obnoxious and drunk and it embarrasses him, that's just one of the things he's going to have to live with. That is my personality, take it or leave it. It's not something I'm doing to him. And it's not like I spend every weekend tanked. But when I get together with my high school friends for a party in someone's basement, we act immature. He knew that when we got married. Things like that I'm not going to change about myself.
I'll be OK. I've had some good advice in here, and my own self-protection impulses will serve me well.
"As of page 2 this might be the most boring argument ever. It's making me long for Rape Day." - Mouse
Just remember that whatever anyone's advice is and whatever you guys do, there will probably be some stumbles and falls on both parts. You also can't expect him to change all at once so while he totally has to be held accountable for his actions and how he hurt you, he may not have the tools yet to live up to the expectations you want.
It's kind of dicey because you need certain things to happen to rebuilt the trust, intimacy, etc, but you have to walk a fine line because like people have said, it can't go back to "normal" because normal wasn't even good to begin with...and you can't punish him or nothing will work.
I caution though that personal therapy is also a very selfish time. It's not a great time to be trying to concurrently heal a marriage. If he's clinically depressed, medication will/can help if he's not on it already, but if he's just having one of those mid-life before mid-life crises things or if there's any truth to the awful things he said to you then he is going to come to these conclusions during therapy and you have to decide if you're willing to go along for the ride not knowing if the outcome is going to be more heartbreak for you.
I don't think I'm being a downer or overly optimistic- just trying to pull together all my experiences and give you maybe some "cautious optimisim with a dash of realism"?
It's just really hard because you mentioned the bossy thing and how he just sat back and kept a lot of sh*t inside....that is what I've said a lot of guys do- they sit around thinking of all the stuff they're unhappy with, never saying anything, biding their time, deciding which seems better for them- with or without you...and then just bam- decide with you just going along, business as usual. You end up blindsided and they don't get why since they've been having these feelings for so long. It's totally unfair. Had he just vocalized all this stuff before you could have come to some resolutions together- be it deciding you're not meant for each other or realizing you're stronger together.
Just remember- no sex and no warm xmas fuzzies.