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Dinner w/the IL's last night - Vent
DH & I had his parents over to our house last night for dinner along with my dad & my dad's gf. When DH called his mom to invite them over a couple of nights ago, he said we're eating at 7PM, but feel free to come over alittle before if they want to hang out. MIL did not offer to bring anything, so DH asked if she could bring something small for dessert.
When I asked my dad & his gf to come over, my dad instantly asked what he could bring, so I said to just bring beer. His gf called me the next day asking what she could bring over and I told her not to worry, things were taken care of. Her & my dad arrived at our house around 6:45 and my dad's gf was holding a pretty mum plant for me. She said since there wasn't any food she could contribute, she wanted to bring me something. I thought this was a thoughtful gesture.
MIL called at 7 and said that FIL was stuck at work and they would be late. They live 5 min from DH & I so when it was almost 7:30, we thought something was wrong at FIL's work (he sells/fixes heavy machinery). The food had been ready for a while then, and we didn't want to eat w/o them so DH called MIL's cell and turns out they were down the street.
FIL walks in and I ask, "Hey, I hope everything is ok at work?!" and he gives me a puzzled look with no answer. So, we're sitting at the table eating dinner and I ask him again and his response, "I wasn't at work" with a sharp tone. MIL kind of gives me a 'look'. FIL then proceeds to tell everyone that he was cutting grass at one of his income properties. MIL claimed he went over there at 5 and it took him longer than anticipated. Based on how she 'covered' by saying he was initially at work and his response was defensive, I doubt that was true, but evenso, if you know you have plans to be somewhere, why overlap?
FIL could not have expressed more through his behavior last night that he had no interest whatsoever in coming over. MIL is a smidge better, meaning, she will actually talk - but when she does, you kind of feel awkward for her. I just got a text from MIL saying she had fun last night & was sorry again that "dad" and her were late - she said he really didn't think he would've been at the townhouse that long.
Although disprespectful & unnecessary that they showed up late, Ok big deal, but what's wierd is that MIL had to lie to 'cover' for FIL and that she keeps bringing it up. People only do stuff like that when they feel bad or are hiding something which just leans more towards my theory in which FIL just did not want to come over.
Anyway, I guess the point of my vent is DH & I just don't get why MIL (AND FIL even!) will harp on us time & time again about how they never see us, etc. and then we're the ONLY ones to initiate these things & they both can't even put their best faces/attitudes forward for a couple of hours. It's like someone dragged them over kicking & screaming.
Re: Dinner w/the IL's last night - Vent
He was cutting grass at his income properties...this is work. I wouldn't pick it apart so much. Maybe something else WAS up, maybe they got into a fight, maybe 'dad' forgot and 'mom' didn't want to seem rude. She might have just been making up an excuse to save face, let it go. She sounds like she's trying to apologize for the lateness. It doesn't sound like it's an everyday thing. Leave it and move on. If they're ALWAYS late that's another thing but it really doesn't sound like that's the case.
As for the not asking to bring something. Who says they wouldn't have brought a bottle of wine or something if you hadn't said something? I don't always ask when someone asks me for dinner if I can bring something. I usually assume dinner is planned and they won't want me to bring food and bring a bottle of wine without asking.
Look - I get it. I find my IL's frustrating, as does my DH. But youv'e got to be careful about looking for stuff to be pissed at them over.
And I think you purposely pushed the issue about asking him if everything was o.k. I think you were looking to catch them in a lie. Stop it! Seriously. Even if they were being truthful, maybe he just didn't want to talk about it! I dont' like talking about work at home and there was a time that if I said anything about work, FIL would pick up on it and would want to start asking 20 questions about my job. So now, I just don't talk about it at all around him because I don't want to be peppered w/ questions about it.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
I don't think the cutting grass story is implausible, actually. I imagine that MIL felt it was less embarrassing to say that he was stuck at work than to explain he was taking longer cutting grass than she thought he would. It also seems like MIL and FIL probably had a fight on the way over about him causing them to be late and put FIL in a bad mood.
Also, I'm not sure what them not offering to bring anything has to do with this story. When I invite guests to my home for dinner, I don't expect them to bring anything.
Lastly, if your ILs complain that you don't see them enough, I highly doubt that sharing the time they do get with you with other people is hardly what they had in mind. Why can't you invite them over for dinner alone?
Also, sending you one text /= "keeps bringing it up".
I imagine it was quite clear to all last night that you were angry with them. It was polite of her to send a note today to try to smooth things over. I also don't understand why your MIL being awkward also means that she's a bad guest.
You sound like a real pill.
Or she could just be embarrassed by his behavior.
I know several people who just aren't social - middle-aged/older men, mostly - and they're just grumps with no sense of etiquette or polite behavior. They just stare at the TV or make weird remarks and then sometimes just pick up and leave in the middle of a get-together. It happens. Not everyone is social or comfortable with a lot of people. Sometimes their spouses have to nag them to get them to go out. You just have to accept that this is the way they are.
Anyway, I guess the point of my vent is DH & I just don't get why MIL (AND FIL even!) will harp on us time & time again about how they never see us, etc. and then we're the ONLY ones to initiate these things & they both can't even put their best faces/attitudes forward for a couple of hours. It's like someone dragged them over kicking & screaming.
I get why you think FIL didn't want to be there, but MIL doesn't seem to have been "kicking and screaming" about everything.
I was also a little taken aback when you said that your H outright asked his folks to bring a dessert, when they didn't offer to bring anything. They aren't obligated to do so - I agree with you, I would never go to someone's home empty-handed, but it's also rude for a host to ask them to bring something. It's not a giant faux-pas, but I found it a bit hypocritical when you're venting about how rude your in-laws are.
I also thought it was rude of you to keep bugging FIL about work or his late arrival when he clearly didn't want to talk about it ... like PPs said, it seems like you sort of baited him into this awkward conversation. If you badger him all the time like this, then I can see why he's not super-comfortable in your home.
So if you're going to invite them over again, keep the plans loose (don't plan the dinner time around them) and if they're late don't pester them for an explanation. Keep the conversation light, and if FIL is being a grouch then just ignore him and talk to whoever wants to participate in the conversation. Also, don't plan on a get-together for more than a couple hours.
Thank you for your advice, Casmgn. I know it's not going to make much sense, and it's hard to explain, but DH & I don't have a "casual" kind of relationship with IL's. Example A, the awkward 'planned' dinner at our home just to appease them seeing us. That isn't us. We're total drop-ins with my family and yes, we'll even arrive 'casually late' to my Aunt's for some get-togethers. But, considering it was a small, 6 person dinner, I don't know...I just kinda thought it was wierd. I know, like I said...it's not going to make sense...and yes, the apple pie was brought
DH and I try to avoid 1 on 1's with the ILs at.all.costs. Is it because we don't genuinely enjoy their company? Yes. Is it because they say more unfiltered nonsense when others aren't around? Yes. Also, we both feel that since we're the only ones that ever initiate encounters with them, why not do it on our own terms in our own less painful way?
You seem really annoyed that they were late and I'm sure it showed. Asking about work probably wasn't so innocent, a part of you wanted better information about why he was a half hour late, right? People aren't stupid, they can pick-up in that. And it probably made MIL uncomfortable which is why she harped on it and mentioned it again. Maybe he was late because he got lazy and ready late or got into a fight with his wife. She'd still say it was something innocent like "work". That's what polite people say. Plus, she called, that was polite, too. You wondered where they were for a whole half hour.
At this point in my life I have realized that "We want to see you" means we want to see you on our terms. Which usually means at their home or their favorite restaurant or their chosen activity. I don't completely get it but my IL beg us to come to their house and pretty much hate coming to ours. So, you know what? They don't get invited anymore. We go there exactly as many times as we choose to. No more, no less.
Your father and his ladyfriend sound delightful. THEY would get another invitation in a heartbeat. Plan on that. Four's easier to cook for than 6 anyway.
I'm nitpicking your post, but because I think you don't realize that just because people are different doesn't make them right or wrong. Just because your inlaws don't offer to bring anything, doesn't make them wrong and your parents right because they did offer. I think you need to keep in mind that people are separate and have different personalities. Just because they act in a manner that you wouldln't, doesn't make it wrong. It's just different.
Thank you, Mbcdefg. This is why I like these boards - people are honest. I do see your point and I think you are spot-on on how FIL is. It's wierd though, because I have seen him 'interact' & be 'social' before with their friends. I don't know, I guess he's just this way with DH & myself.
I didn't realize or think at the time how it would be rude to ask them to bring something, but I see now it may have been an unnecessary request. Again, IL's and DH and myself are not at the 'casual level' so, I contradicted myself in thinking DH and I could put a responsibility on them that they never offered.
I realize now that asking him 2x about 'work' was perceived as badgering. It's not an excuse, but often I am at a loss for words with FIL and will just ask/talk to him with whatever I can come up with. He is a very 1-worded response kind of person so it's hard for me because I'm a chatter and so is my family. I know nothing about cars, but FIL is really into them, so I will even *attempt* to keep a convo going about that, lol.
You read my mind! This is what DH and I were thinking last night also. I think that's what also added to the wierdness...like MIL knows the way to our home, ha.
I would just stop trying, then. Of course you should be polite to him, but I wouldn't go out of your way to try and strike up a conversation.
I have a bunch of relatives like this. After a while you learn that it's not really worth the energy to get them to stop being a stick in the mud. They're in a comfortable little rut and they want to stay there, and you'll only frustrate and disappoint yourself if you continually try to drag them out of it. Let them fester in their own grumpiness, and enjoy your time with the people who WANT to talk and hang out.
People who don't like to talk... don't like to talk! He may be perfectly content to just sit and listen.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
Maybe your IL's just aren't comfortable going to your home for dinner? I know my MIL is not comfortable AT ALL in my home and it really shows. This is most likely because her and I do not get along very well and I'm certainly not warm or welcoming to her. But for this reason, we really don't have them over, especially for a just because dinner. When we have smaller gatherings (for example Cinco de Mayo I have a more intimate gathering) they usually blow us off and we hear some lie why they couldn't make it but we don't really care. We invite them out of obligation (like if we are inviting BIL they'd find out and at least we don't have to hear they were excluded). If its a big enough party that more extended family is coming, they will usually show but not stay very long.
But we certainly never invite them over just to hang out or for dinner just to visit with them. I'd suggest you don't even bother inviting them over for such occasion and then they don't have to feel obligated to come because it sounds like that's the only reason they showed.
I think you're spot-on. Whenever MIL says to DH & I that she wants to see us more, it's usually followed by a "When are you going to stop over..." or "Why don't you come to our house..." etc. IL's are so fixated on us always coming to them. I don't get it.
Update: MIL sent me a text saying that she is taking a trip w/her friend but when she gets back, her & FIL will have DH & I over. There is a reason that DH and I don't go to their house. I actually posted on here before about it. They are hoarders. Their house is a complete disaster - clutter-wise & filthy. I don't like to even sit on their couch let alone eat there! DH and I don't know how to touch on this, therefore, we avoid it. Hence, the reason we invite them to our home.
I noticed a lot of people were picking your story apart but I side with you on this one because my inlaws are the exact same way. They complain on a daily basis that we don't spend enough time with them etc but the last time either of them were at our house was the week before Christmas and they live 3 blocks away.
When I invite people over for dinner - my family ALWAYS offers to bring something. I DO NOT expect anyone to bring anything to my house when I am making dinner, but it is a nice gesture. I would NOT think about going to someone else's house for dinner empty handed, maybe that is just how we were brought up.
I'll do you one better though - when i have dinner at my house my inlaws will come and sit around and pick at food but none of them ever eat. If we have a cookout, they don't eat the hotdogs bc they arent all beef, on new years day then don't eat hot dogs and sauerkrat bc I put beer in my sauerkrat, they dont eat dessert at my house bc I make everything homemade and they like their icing our of a can, etc. To me if you want to be rude - dont come. I would much rather you tell me no your not coming then to sit there and be rude.
All in all...i feel your pain! Distance yourself from them. that is what we do now.
They're very frugile AND don't like to eat out/social settings. Best of both worlds, ha!
I think this is why MIL did not offer to bring something to our house, partly, because she doesn't like to spend $ where she doesn't have to.
DH & I have tried the casual, 'oh, we're just stopping by really quick on our way somewhere approach' to avoid staying long and/or eating there. However, if MIL flat out invites us over to their house for dinner - what do we do/say?
My IL's (or at least my FIL) have talked about wanting to help w/ daycare for DS. For a number of reasons, we are not comfortable letting them watch DS. You want to talk about a hard conversation to have? THAT was hard - but DH had to finally basically tell his dad "it's not going to happen". he was gentle about it, he asked FIL questions in reference to MIL (physically, no way is she up to it), and basically said it's a HARD job watching a VERY active child. MIL isn't up to it and it would be a lot on him alone.
His dad was sad, of course. But... it had to happen. he had to know that we aren't going to use them for daycare.
Your DH needs to gently be honest "Mom- we'd love to have dinner w/ you. I realize you and dad are more comfortable staying at home, but at this present time, there is too much stuff in your home and it's not comfortable for us to come there. We will gladly have you over to our house anytime, but we're not going to come to your home for dinner.".
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
I would leave the dinner decision up to your H since its his p's. If it were important to him to do dinner with them once in awhile, I'd suck it up and go... ONCE IN AWHILE! If it's not important to him, let him deal with them and make the excuses.
We tend to go to my IL's a little more in the summer to grill/hang out by their pool but really, we never do anything with them all fall/winter/spring. We just don't really like hanging out in their home either. He's fine with that so I am certainly not gonna push we go over there.
THAT would be a tough convo to have, ECB! It sounds like you & your DH handled it as gently & appropriately as you could though. I remember from past posts/responses you've given that being a sticky scenario w/your IL's. How did your FIL & MIL react? Did they act differently towards you? DH? DS??
Thank you to the other ladies for the advice as well. ::Sigh::
DH knows what he *has* to do. We have talked about this before. We're *working* on it. Although he'd be the one to have the conversation, we're working through it together so I can give him support. His fear is that his parents will be SO highly offended & hurt by the way that we feel & they will cross him off. He knows that once come [future] kids, we're certainly not taking them to IL's house, but right now, he hasn't pulled the trigger.
Here's the thing - behaviors have consequences. If they're not going to make the effort to keep their house clean and organized, there is a consequence to that choice, to that action, and that is that you won't be coming over. He's not asking them to change their behavior - which would be rude and thoughtless - but he is telling them that your behavior is going to be influenced by what they do and how they live. If they were abusive, would you want to keep your distance? I'd hope so. If they were abusing drugs or behaving in some other inappropriate ways, would you want to stay away? Again, I'd hope so. This is just another kind of boundary. If they really do want you guys around, their behavior is going to have to change. If not, well, to me that says tons about their priorities.
Of course it's not an easy conversation to have - no way. And yes, it might hurt their feelings, but that's not your responsibility. All you can do is say what you have to say in as polite, considerate, and thoughtful way as possible and how they react - well, that's not on you.
1. One or both of these people have a mental illness, if they are true hoarders. It is useless to expect hoarders to want to leave their home much. You know this; you and dh keep expecting more than they can give. You'll lighten up when you learn to adjust your expectations.
2. I never ask my guests to bring anything to my house; I'd consider it rude if I did. I realize that lots of other people think differently; but when I'm hosting, I provide all food, beverages etc. Lots of people think this way as well. You invited them for dinner; they accepted; then you said Oh yes it's pot luck you have to bring something. I'd be annoyed by that.
3. Your MIL said he was at work; he was doing some work; why the drill? The fact that you even asked for clarification was a clear indication (certainly would be to me) that you did not believe MIL's story about where FIL was, and you made it clear with just a couple of questions you didn't believe it. AhHA!ing people in front of others is rude. And him mowing a lawn is work; if you don't believe me, get out there and do it yourself for a half hour. All you had to do is say "Oh, we're so glad you made it!" to make them feel a bit more welcome in your house. Were I another guest here at the time, and heard this, I'd feel uncomfortable as well, so you may well have succeeded in making all four of your guests uncomfortable, not just your inlaws.
I get that you don't like these people, and that being with them is problematic. But you don't have to add to the problems, and to me, it seems like you did.
And if someone is late for dinner, you can sit down and eat without them. Perfectly acceptable, and in your shoes I would have done it last night, and saved them each a nice plate for when they got there.
FWIW, I think it's more rude to go ahead and eat when you're only having a total of 6 people (myself & DH included in that number) over than saying, "Hey mom, would you mind bringing something small over for dessert? ShannersLA & I don't need to have one, but just incase if dad would want some..." . FIL is a big sweets-fan so that is one reason DH wanted there to be dessert. Sure, we could've supplied it, and we would've if MIL would've declined. It was not potluck. But anyway, enough w/the apple pie...
I get that by me asking 2x 'what had happened at work & if everything was ok', it came across as more of an interegation, rather just a simple question, but it doesn't seem so odd to me that if someone is arguably late to your house and they give you reason 'x', that you couldn't broach that subject. It'd be the same thing as someone saying, "Ugh, we're stuck in traffic, be there as soon as we can.." & then when they arrive you say, "Oh, did you encounter an accident or just dumb red lights?" just trying to make convo...
I will openly admit, yes, I was peeved and irritated that they could not make the effort to be on time. It isn't often that we all get together, and when we do, it's DH & I that make the plans/efforts/arrangements, so we felt it was small potatoes just to show up and bring a friggin pie.
Yep, I have been there done that with cutting grass. DH & I just came out of a 3-day holiday weekend as I am sure most people did, allowing us the time for thorough yard work. I know hard work, believe me. I have cut grass & am outside with DH pulling weeds, ect. and I don't get paid for it. I am not denying that cutting grass isn't 'work', but I think MIL wanted to imply that it was FIL's actual 'job' & not just his extra income that can be coordinated around his own schedule. When DH called to invite them to dinner, he asked them if Tuesday was good - had we known they had tasks to do, we could've planned for another day.
See, the thing with making the IL's feel more welcome, make them feel comfortable, etc. is that DH and I aim to please the best we can. But they're a tough crowd. Besides, this isn't the first time IL's 'have made their points' showing up late and/or came with a poor attitude/spirit & it's supposed to be just okay. DH and I showed up at their home years back literally 10 min late and that's all we heard about for the first hour we were there - especially from FIL. So, spare me.
This whole explanation just makes you sound bitter. On many levels.
You probably are. Which seems cool because of who you're dealing with. But still, you sound completely willing to become the ogers that they have modeled.
Do you want to?
And yeah, inviting people to your house for dinner and upon acceptance informing them that it's actually a potluck and telling them what they are to bring is terribly rude as well. It's ironic that you're complaining about how awful and unmannered your inlaws are.