July 2009 Weddings
Dear Community,
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
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Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Thoughts? Comments? Nasty Remarks?
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Re: Thoughts? Comments? Nasty Remarks?
My opinion probably won't be a popular one, but I'm going to share anyway.
As far as babies not being allowed in First Class on flights, I totally agree with that. If I'm paying a significant amount more than an economy-class ticket, there shouldn't be babies. First Class is supposed to be more relaxing and "quiet." It's quite disrespectful of parents to bring their children into first class, IMO.
On the restaurant side of it, I'm 50-50. Children don't belong in fine dining places, but there are some places that are fine for them.
I think it is a symptom of the fact that so many parents have lost good sense. A lot of places are not appropriate for kids, but parents have been bringing kids and not using good judgement. I think that there has been a wave of parents treating kids like little adults -- instead of setting appropriate boundaries and this is the result. Far too many children are in charge of their families, whereas it should be the parents in charge.
Also, I think parents have become way too kid centered. Their kids become their entire reason for existence and they cannot eat, sleep, socialize etc. without baby in tow. My child is incredibly important to me, but there are also other aspects to my life. I am not one to not make plans because it is around nap or meal time. My child needs to grow up being flexible and adaptive. I do not want the child who has a panic attack when there is a substitute teacher. I "hope" that my child will not grow up over indulged and spoiled like so many kids I see nowadays.
I do see a backlash, however, and it seems like there is starting to be a return to common sense amongst parents. Maybe rules like this will be the nudge some parents need.
Jenny McCarthy = Former Playmate and MTV host
Pediatrician = Doctor with extensive experience and education on children.
Bumpies = Don't get me started!
I know who I get my health advice from!
What are you looking at?
I agree. DH and I went to the casino after dinner on our anniversary. 10pm...little children running around the CASINO. Smoke filled and free drinks..awesome judgement folks.
Jenny McCarthy = Former Playmate and MTV host
Pediatrician = Doctor with extensive experience and education on children.
Bumpies = Don't get me started!
I know who I get my health advice from!
What are you looking at?
Well said Maria. I agree completely with this.
I am pretty annoyed by that. So just b/c I have a child, I can't go places with her b/c other people don't want to listen to a child cry/babble/make any type of noise? My child isn't physically harming anyone.
The first class thing... if I pay big bucks to fly first class, I should be allowed to bring my child just like regular class.
People have kids, and though some choose not to, they should be imposing their wishes on the public. Private place, fine whatever do what you want. public places such as supermarket and chain restaurants... I think it is bad business.
I work with people who are anti children, and I think that us with families get looked at differently and it isn't right. Honestly, this is one area that may get me in a tizzy. I may start to go off if I keep typing so I will stop.
I totally agree with Maria.
In terms of babies on first class... I may not be popular either, but I agree that it should be an adult-friendly area... not that babies should not be on airplanes... of course not... they need to travel too, but it is extremely difficult to have a baby and quiet in the same place and I see no problem with reserving a quiet area for those who can and want to pay for it.
In terms of restaurants, I also agree that restaurants are free to choose their clientele and that fine dining restaurants are not baby friendly. That being said, I do believe an 8 year old can be contained and can be allowed, but the age limit is controversial and of course it depends on parents (I defer to Maria's post on that in terms of parenting).
I think babies should not be allowed in movies period. Now, call me strict or because I'm not a mom, I may get shot here, but any movie, even Lion King, is plain ol' too loud for little baby ears. I think toddlers and kids and stuff are fine, but some parents have no sense... it's bad for babies and for other viewers for babies to be in a movie theater. Just my opinion but I'm open to suggestions and persuasion.
I'm going to offer a different perspective here. If I'm paying big bucks for first class, shouldn't I have the right not to hear children for the duration of the flight? DH and I fly in/out of Orlando all the time. There's ALWAYS children on the planes, which is understandable...Disney's there. However, to escape that, many people fly first class.
Another thing....there's adult only resorts and kid friendly ones. We selected our HM resort because it was adult only...what's wrong with restaurants being adult only too?
I think the problem being that there are parents who don't keep their kids under control. Unfortunately, businesses feel they need to make these rules to keep those kids under control and the ones who inadvertently lose out are those who do have well behaved children.
I'm not going to lie...even now that I'm a parent, if I go on vacation with just DH, it'll be somewhere that is adult only.
Jenny McCarthy = Former Playmate and MTV host
Pediatrician = Doctor with extensive experience and education on children.
Bumpies = Don't get me started!
I know who I get my health advice from!
What are you looking at?
I think that a lot of this debate would be avoided if parents would just be able to use common sense and courtesy in situations. If your child is fussing, crying, screaming, etc and you are in a public place - lets say a restaurant - I think that the "right" thing to do would be to take your child out of the main area and try to settle them down. If the baby is sleeping or the child is well behaved and not disrupting other patrons I don't know what the issue is.
I have to say I also agree with the first class thing. You can't control or predict how your baby/young child will do with airline travel and I know from experience a screaming baby on an 8 hour overnight flight is not fun as another passenger. I'd be even more angry if I was paying extra for first class, but that's just me (and I can never afford first class so it doesn't really apply to me anyway
)
I'm split in half on this issue. I think it has a lot more to do with parenting in specific circumstances. You can't make a blanket statement like that. I've been in restaurants (and movies) with kids screaming hysterically and I found it rude that the parent didn't remove the child because it did ruin the situation for everyone else around. However, a child making noise or fussing doesn't bother me when I see a parent addressing it.
I've never paid to sit in first class, so I can't even fathom whether children should be allowed or not. Although, I'd rather have a quiet and well-behaved one year old next to me than an obnoxious drunk...so let's make a law about that too.
I don't think you can compare this situation to drunks. Incredibly intoxicated/obnoxious drunks are often kicked out of restaurants/bars and even airplanes. Not the same thing IMO...
I should take off drunk and just say obnoxious adults. I think it's too flat of a statement to assume that all babies/young children are going to create problems. I have been next to a drunk on a plane who was not removed, but was cut off from further alcohol service on the flight and it made for a really uncomfortable plane ride.
Perhaps instead of saying that children aren't allowed, they could say that if a child disrupts the environment they will be asked to leave.
I'm sorry, but if you can pay for first class and get a seat, I should be able to fly first class with my child just like regular class. I don't fly first class b/c it is too expensive for my budget. If people have unruly child they should do better at parenting. It isn't my fault that Joe Smoes kid can't behave on a plane. My child can behave and I shouldn't be restricted because I am a parent.
If restaurants want to limit their clientele that is their choice. Kids being around don't bother me.. .never have. I understand they bother some, and certain places aren't for children. Casinos, fancy places late night movies (or adult movies) - no problem say kids can't come. But if I want to bring Maggie to see Pooh at 11am, I should be able to. Flame away- this is just from my perspective.
I'm of the opinion that there are lots of things about lots of people of all ages that are annoying to others. Old people drive slow, teenagers have awful attitudes, adults can be douchers, babies scream. But why should it be anyone else's job to shield you from all of that? I can get on board with restaurants being selective about their clientele, but other public service things, like stores, transportation, etc. shouldn't be restrictive to anyone.
Why do children have any less of a right to be in public than adults?
It's unfortunate that sh!tty parenting from some ruins it for all. I'd be more supportive of a code that would remove anyone acting in a rude/distasteful/upsetting way, regardless of age, gender, skin color, or sexual preference. Let's be truthful with ourselves, it ain't always the kids causing the problems.
I agree that taking a one year old to see Pooh anytime or any children movie is totally fine. What really irks me is when I see a parent with a 3 month old. First of all, that 3 month old isn't watching the movie and from what I've heard, it's too much noise in a theater for a baby and there is no need...
In addition, even really well behaved children cry and fuss. I mean, they're kids. Babies will be babies... crying isn't a bad thing... they're going to fuss and cry... it's part of life and while it would never bother me in say, a Chili's or on an airplane (assuming the parent is addressing it and keeping it under control), I would totally be on board for SOME places being adult only... knowing I could go out to a nice, fine dining dinner with my hunny and know there is no chance of a fussy baby... it has its draw. That isn't to say that we should start limiting things right and left, but having a few resorts and a few fine restaurants and rated R movies reserved without babies/toddlers... I'm not opposed to that. Now if someone starts talking about banning one year olds to G or PG movies... that's getting a bit out of hand....
In terms of first class... this is a sticky one.... On the one hand, airlines are private and allowed to restrict/deny any clientele, from drunks to obnoxious teens to children... and no matter how good a parent is, babies are going to cry, toddlers are going to whine at times and should someone be able to buy their way out of that if possible... eh, it doesn't matter all that much to me since I never have and never will be able to afford it, but I also am a believer that private businesses, airlines, restaurants, theaters... should be allowed to make their rules to best serve their customers...
In terms of an obnoxious adult... I'd rather he be removed than a child who is just fussing because he's a child... with cabin pressure or a cold or whatever, babies are babies.... apples and oranges to me....
So 'babies are babies' is either a behavior that can be excused or a behavior that should be cracked down on?
Your post confused me as to which side you were arguing.
Again, if we can broaden this to all people of all ages, I'm down with it. Don't just limit sh!tty behavior to children, though.
I agree that people of all ages can be jerks with no manners. I also agree that an 11am showing of a kids movie would be a crazy thing to restrict children from. Refusing to allow kids on any airline would be a bit much.
However, the bans aren't on 11am children's movies and the airlines aren't a total ban... nor are the 1st class bans on mainstream airlines for that matter.
That theatre chain in Texas doesn't show them unless there is a strong adult interest (like Shrek) and they also serve alcohol at all showings. There are also dozens of other theatres in the area that would be happy to admit you and your child.
The restaurants that won't admit children (at least around here) are upscale places that don't offer kid friendly menu choices and people go there for a nice night out with a quiet atmosphere.
As many have already said, most people with good sense don't pay the extra cost to fly first class with an infant/child, don't go out to upscale restaurants for regular family dinners, and hire a sitter if they want to see the latest blockbuster. Why? Because these are not kid friendly things to begin with and bringing them would be inapproprate.
I see no problem with offering adult-only options for those who prefer them and are willing to pay the extra money for it. Nobody is asking mom and dad to shell out extra $$$ to bring the kiddos along... or even turning them away from places that they would typically go. It's not like the McDonald's playplace is being turned into a Starbucks with no kids allowed written on the door.
I've been to an adults only movie and I would go again. It was really nice not to have to worry about someone kicking my seat or screaming. As annoying as adults can be, I can go tell chatty Cathy to shut her pie hole and Squirmy Sam to keep his hands to himself. Say that to a kid that isn't yours and you are the jerk who made a kid cry and risk being chewed out by the jerky parent. For me, it's worth the extra money not to have to deal with it.
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How is flying first class not kid-friendly? Just because others don't want it to be? I would think that if I knew my kid would behave (barring an unpredictable happening), and I had the cash, I'd love to fly first class with them because it means more room. But I've never flown outside coach, so I could just be delusional.
EDIT: I do agree that restaurants putting limits on things isn't an all out ban. Same goes for the movie theaters. I'm just wondering about the basis of the thought behind this movement.
I think that the same holds true for people who take dogs out in public.
I will add that just like people used to pay a little extra to fly "non smoking" on a plane, I would pay extra to sit in an area that was adult only. I cannot even explain the level of frustration and anxiety DH and I experienced on our honeymoon when the child in the row next to us screamed bloody murder the entire time. You should have seen her on the landing portion of the flight. She honestly made us want to scream - and the parents just sat there listening to their ipods and finished their sudoku puzzles... DH doesn't do well when flying, and she made the experienced 10X worse. Plus, it was quite a "klassy" move when the child wet herself and the parents didn't even try taking her to the handicap lavatory close by to clean her up.
And no, this is not the only long distance flight that has been like this for me.
Amen!!
I think some bad apples have ruined the bunch.
Do I think kids should be "banned" from certian areas in socitey? No. Do I think parents should be expected to actually PARENT their children? Yes. I will never understand the mom on the cell phone with her kid in the grocery cart, the dad wearing his iPod when he takes his kid for a walk, or the parent sitting in a chair texting while their kid plays in the park. I am a firm believer in being an active part of your child's life, even if the fact that I talk to my kid non-stop when we shop may make others think I'm nuts.
Honestly, I get annoyed when a kid is having a fit/being whiny/fussy, etc in a public space... and the parent is ignoring it. If you want to parent through ignoring your child, do it at home. In public, you need to take some kind of an action-talking the kid for a walk, changing up the "entertainment", etc....
Re: "nice" restaurants and first class.... I don't think parents need to be stuck to Applebee's and Friendly's in order to take their kids out, and I don't think they HAVE to fly coach (dude, those seats SUCK). We regularly take Anders to nicer restaurants and we take him before his bed time-so we eat at 5-and make sure he is well behaved. We have had to take him on walks, but I can honestly say, we regularly get the "how well behaved" comment. Anders is a good kid, but most of his "good kid" is because we make sure he is getting what HE needs to eat, talking to him, and removing him from the area if he is having an issue. Also, we fly first class when there are flights offering it. Again, we bring toys/food/games and keep our kid entertained. Granted, he's only 13 months, but we have done this from the time he was 10 weeks-12 months. We aren't "super fabulous awesome parents" but we do recognize our child's needs and the need of the public not to want to hear our kid scream.
IDK, my 20 page long point is, it's the parents not the kids. By banning all kids, I believe it's limiting to parents. Some of the places may be "luxury" places right now, but what happens if this becomes a trend and spreads through the middle-class areas as well?
I can totally jump on ehos's soapbox of "bad adults" and yes, you can call some of them out, but you're pretty likely to get sh!t for it from them. I think a lot of America just really needs an overhaul on their public interactions.
I think it's a business decision. If it really does hurt business for the restaurants/airlines/movie theaters, I'm sure they'll get the hint and stop. That being said, I have a feeling it will improve business.
My absolute favorite movie theater does not allow kids under 6 and I love it! They also kick out people for texting and talking during the movie. Midnight Harry Potter was so much more awesome without any screaming babies. It will be tough when our little one comes along, but babies don't really belong in movie theaters anyway. 3-6 year olds are a different story though and it will be annoying when the little one gets bigger.
William born 7/12/2000
Andrew born 10/30/2011 (9lb 4oz at 37 weeks)
I pretty much agree with all of this. You were able to put it in better words than I could.
True. Let me tell you though, I was so shocked by this when I worked in LA. I thought you all thought it was normal. I'm relieved to know that I'm not crazy and real SoCalers find it not okay too.
I was in a nice salon in Marina Del Ray -- so you know "classy" folk and this little dog kept running up and licking/sniffing my feet! I don't want other peoples dogs or kids on my feet!
Jenny McCarthy = Former Playmate and MTV host
Pediatrician = Doctor with extensive experience and education on children.
Bumpies = Don't get me started!
I know who I get my health advice from!
What are you looking at?