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Fact: the Air Force doesn't care about working spouses.

2

Re: Fact: the Air Force doesn't care about working spouses.

  • imageMrsOz7:

    I apologize in advance, because this is going to get a little rant-y.

    Maybe I feel this way because so few spouses in our squadron have jobs...but, I constantly feel like the AF is extremely dismissive of spouses who work. First of all, there's the services--which are only really opened banker's hours. Any time I try to make an appointment for anything, I have to get the earliest possible appointment in the day so I can go before work.

    This is what I did yesterday. I got up early to get to the base medical clinic. I had an appointment to get a mirena IUD (an appointment I had to call three times to make). I get there early...check in...and wait. After about 15-20 minutes someone calls my name and comes out to tell me they didn't actually get the mirenas that were ordered for the clinic yet...they just don't have any. And no one could have told me this when I made the appointment...when they called to confirm the appointment...when I checked in or at any other time?

    I was LIVID. Then the nurse (?) apologizes and says they will call me to schedule a new appointment when they get them...She's like "we can get you in the same day"...and I say "I doubt it...because I will have to go to work."

    I guess you're supposed to have so much free time that you can rush in for a day-of appointment whenever they decide they've got their sh*t together?

     On top of that, I'm salty because when my H got back from his deployment about 2 weeks ago, no one was there to meet him since nobody called me. There's an Lt. Col. who's supposed to give all the spouses a 3-hour heads up...then another call about an hour out so we can get on base to meet the returning flights. No one has called me when his last 2 deployments have gotten back.

    On top of all that, I get an email this week about a spouse's flight on H's plane. Like the squadron thinks it would be fun to take all the wives up on a flight--but the time is TBD. And the email says: "we'll try to make it during the school day so you won't have to pay for child care." I read that as "we'll make it in the middle of your work day, so you can't go if you have a job."

    Is anyone else a working mil-spouse? Do you get the same feeling like you're kind of on your own and not really part of the "squadron family?"

     I'm a Navy wife, but I work full time and ALWAYS feel like I'm left out because I work.  Right now my husband is on shore duty at a ROTC unit which is extremely small.  I'm the ONLY spouse that works.  All the spouses go out to lunch atleast once a month and I can never go.

    When my husband was on the ship the last 4 years, they often had family cookouts or wetting downs or hail and farewells that started at 12noon or btw 2-3pm... which I could never make or was always late to.  

    The Navy also has a COMPASS class for new spouses that is a 2 day conference that gives you all sorts of valuable information regarding how the Navy works, how to negotiate through Tricare, services offered on base... but it's always during the work week!!!  I even emailed them and told them how upset I was that they did not offer atleast 1 weekend class a YEAR for full time working spouses.   

    I always took off a day of work to go on the family day cruise though.  That was one thing I definitely didn't want to miss because I really enjoyed them.  But again... during the day and work week.

    It can be very frustrating!!!  But hang in there because it's always very rewarding to have your own career!  :o

    TTC since Jan 2011

    Proud Navy Wife

  • You know who hates everyone with a job? My DMV. M-F 8-4:30. Pssh. I need to register the dude's truck. I'm considering not doing it and letting him handle it when he gets back. If he gets pulled over, he can attempt to show a copy of his orders. 
    Twin boys due 7/25/12
  • imageMallardDucky:
    imageLuluP82:
    imageKiller Cupcake:
    imageLuluP82:
    imageKiller Cupcake:

    imageMrsOjoButtons:
    I'm guessing OP won't be back.

    Im guessing you're right. 

    Yup, if you were referring to me, I have no issues with doctor office hours. In fact, since they're open so early, if I'm able to get the first appointment of the day I don't have to miss any work, whereas when I go to civilian doctors, I usually can't get around it since their office hours are the exact same as mine. I empathized with the OP to the extent that, due to the hours where activities and events are typically scheduled in my experience (which isn't even with the AF), I have also at times felt left out/frustrated as a working spouse. I have felt like the OP before (like the USMC, in my case, doesn't care about including working spouses), so I understood why she would get frustrated. That's all.

    I also told Ojo that I understand why they schedule things when they do. Doesn't change the fact that I personally find it frustrating, especially as in civilian world, work social events are scheduled on weekends and evenings all the time (and civilian workers also have obligations in the evenings and children), so the fact that in my limited experience events are never scheduled in the evenings or weekends makes it seem to me like they assume every spouse will be a stay at home spouse. Which in turn frustrates me as a working spouse.

    But now I'm not understanding your point...

    Why is it okay for a civilian doctors office to have hours that aren't conducive to yours, but when a military facility does it, it's because they don't care about a working spouse?

    I understand being annoyed for things like the working moms class you were referring to, but giving a civilian doctor a pass for having regular 8-5 hours and name-calling the military facility for the same thing doesn't make any sense.  

    I never had an issue with the office hours. What bothered me about the OP's experience was that they assumed she could make a same-day appointment when the Mirenas actually came in, as an excuse for the miscommunication. That's all.

    I didn't name call any military facilities, at all. Especially because no one is forcing anyone to go to an MFT. I just empathized with the OP with the general feeling of no one cares about working spouses.

    I think you are looking to far into the same day appointment.  The office told her they could get her into a same day appointment to be nice because of the error, but that does not mean she has to get it on the same day, she can make the appointment for when she has the time before work.

    Thank you!  Maybe instead of assuming she was a SAHW, they were trying to get her in first so they wouldn't run out again before she was able to get an appointment and be in the situation again.  Maybe they were trying to be appologetic. 

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  • imageAnchoredByLove:
    imageMrsOz7:

    I apologize in advance, because this is going to get a little rant-y.

    Maybe I feel this way because so few spouses in our squadron have jobs...but, I constantly feel like the AF is extremely dismissive of spouses who work. First of all, there's the services--which are only really opened banker's hours. Any time I try to make an appointment for anything, I have to get the earliest possible appointment in the day so I can go before work.

    This is what I did yesterday. I got up early to get to the base medical clinic. I had an appointment to get a mirena IUD (an appointment I had to call three times to make). I get there early...check in...and wait. After about 15-20 minutes someone calls my name and comes out to tell me they didn't actually get the mirenas that were ordered for the clinic yet...they just don't have any. And no one could have told me this when I made the appointment...when they called to confirm the appointment...when I checked in or at any other time?

    I was LIVID. Then the nurse (?) apologizes and says they will call me to schedule a new appointment when they get them...She's like "we can get you in the same day"...and I say "I doubt it...because I will have to go to work."

    I guess you're supposed to have so much free time that you can rush in for a day-of appointment whenever they decide they've got their sh*t together?

     On top of that, I'm salty because when my H got back from his deployment about 2 weeks ago, no one was there to meet him since nobody called me. There's an Lt. Col. who's supposed to give all the spouses a 3-hour heads up...then another call about an hour out so we can get on base to meet the returning flights. No one has called me when his last 2 deployments have gotten back.

    On top of all that, I get an email this week about a spouse's flight on H's plane. Like the squadron thinks it would be fun to take all the wives up on a flight--but the time is TBD. And the email says: "we'll try to make it during the school day so you won't have to pay for child care." I read that as "we'll make it in the middle of your work day, so you can't go if you have a job."

    Is anyone else a working mil-spouse? Do you get the same feeling like you're kind of on your own and not really part of the "squadron family?"

     I'm a Navy wife, but I work full time and ALWAYS feel like I'm left out because I work.  Right now my husband is on shore duty at a ROTC unit which is extremely small.  I'm the ONLY spouse that works.  All the spouses go out to lunch atleast once a month and I can never go.

    When my husband was on the ship the last 4 years, they often had family cookouts or wetting downs or hail and farewells that started at 12noon or btw 2-3pm... which I could never make or was always late to.  

    The Navy also has a COMPASS class for new spouses that is a 2 day conference that gives you all sorts of valuable information regarding how the Navy works, how to negotiate through Tricare, services offered on base... but it's always during the work week!!!  I even emailed them and told them how upset I was that they did not offer atleast 1 weekend class a YEAR for full time working spouses.   

    I always took off a day of work to go on the family day cruise though.  That was one thing I definitely didn't want to miss because I really enjoyed them.  But again... during the day and work week.

    It can be very frustrating!!!  But hang in there because it's always very rewarding to have your own career!  :o

    It is too bad that the OP has been scared away PP who disagree with her, because I think there is some validity to her comments, and I think an honest, non-flame-y discussion about the pluses and minuses of being a working military spouse would be interesting.

    Re: MTF clinics: Imagine how difficult it would be to get to an appt there if you worked over an hour from the clinic. (We live 15min from the post where H works, and 60min from where I work.) The solution: either sign up for insurance from your own job, or use Tricare Standard, which will allow you to get care at civilian clinics (this is what I do). Of course, I have to pay for some of my medical care (just like the rest of the civilian world!), but this theoretically makes getting to a doctor's appt less inconvenient. I say less inconvenient, because it's ALWAYS inconvenient, as an employed person, to get to a medical appt.

    However, I have to disagree with PPs who say that all doctors' offices have 8-5 hours. Not true. I work at a civilian hospital. Many of our clinics have evening hours or weekend hours. They do this by closing early on one other weekday. It isn't available everywhere, but it does exist.

    As a spouse who works an average of 50hrs a week, plus travel time, plus one weekend a month, I am rarely able to attend the spouse functions at my H's work, even when they are held off-hours. At first this bothered me, especially when I missed daytime functions that my H was expected to attend, and his colleagues' wives were all present. Then I realized that it was strange to assume that I would be friends with the other wives, simply because our husbands work together. I have my own friends, at my own job, people with whom I have things in common that have to do with who I am, not who I am married to.

    Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker
  • imageCK2MD:
    imageAnchoredByLove:
    imageMrsOz7:

     I'm a Navy wife, but I work full time and ALWAYS feel like I'm left out because I work.  Right now my husband is on shore duty at a ROTC unit which is extremely small.  I'm the ONLY spouse that works.  All the spouses go out to lunch atleast once a month and I can never go.

    When my husband was on the ship the last 4 years, they often had family cookouts or wetting downs or hail and farewells that started at 12noon or btw 2-3pm... which I could never make or was always late to.  

    The Navy also has a COMPASS class for new spouses that is a 2 day conference that gives you all sorts of valuable information regarding how the Navy works, how to negotiate through Tricare, services offered on base... but it's always during the work week!!!  I even emailed them and told them how upset I was that they did not offer atleast 1 weekend class a YEAR for full time working spouses.   

    I always took off a day of work to go on the family day cruise though.  That was one thing I definitely didn't want to miss because I really enjoyed them.  But again... during the day and work week.

    It can be very frustrating!!!  But hang in there because it's always very rewarding to have your own career!  :o

    It is too bad that the OP has been scared away PP who disagree with her, because I think there is some validity to her comments, and I think an honest, non-flame-y discussion about the pluses and minuses of being a working military spouse would be interesting.

    Re: MTF clinics: Imagine how difficult it would be to get to an appt there if you worked over an hour from the clinic. (We live 15min from the post where H works, and 60min from where I work.) The solution: either sign up for insurance from your own job, or use Tricare Standard, which will allow you to get care at civilian clinics (this is what I do). Of course, I have to pay for some of my medical care (just like the rest of the civilian world!), but this theoretically makes getting to a doctor's appt less inconvenient. I say less inconvenient, because it's ALWAYS inconvenient, as an employed person, to get to a medical appt.

    However, I have to disagree with PPs who say that all doctors' offices have 8-5 hours. Not true. I work at a civilian hospital. Many of our clinics have evening hours or weekend hours. They do this by closing early on one other weekday. It isn't available everywhere, but it does exist.

    As a spouse who works an average of 50hrs a week, plus travel time, plus one weekend a month, I am rarely able to attend the spouse functions at my H's work, even when they are held off-hours. At first this bothered me, especially when I missed daytime functions that my H was expected to attend, and his colleagues' wives were all present. Then I realized that it was strange to assume that I would be friends with the other wives, simply because our husbands work together. I have my own friends, at my own job, people with whom I have things in common that have to do with who I am, not who I am married to.

    I agree, with especially the bolded part. It's basically why I've been coming back to the thread. I'm not the OP, and I get it's annoying when people just come to complain about military life/tricare/whatever. I usually lurk on here, and I know it comes up frequently.

    However, I think it would have been an interesting discussion. Sure the title of the post was a bit inflammatory, but at the end of the OP, she simply asked if anyone else feels left out because they're working, I completely empathize with that, as that has been my experience as well.

    Are there plusses to having my own career? Absolutely, or I wouldn't do it. Doesn't make it less frustrating, though, to feel left out and isolated, especially if you've PCSed somewhere far away and don't know anyone yet.

    Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker
  • An AD Marine said this to DH once, and I have been waiting for somewhere on the board to fit it in. I thought it was funny TIC, (obviously not my true beliefs)

    "I realized if the military wanted me to have a spouse, they would have issued me one" lolzzzzz.

    but for purposes of this conversation, perhaps we should revamp it to "if the military wanted my spouse to have a job they would have issued him/her one."

    hahaha. I dont think they "care" or "dont care" about spouses who are employed vs not employed. "They" have much more to care about. Altough I should say, I am and have been a working AF spouse, and I have felt cared for by the AF, ftr.

    imageMilitary Newlyweds FAQ Button
    I changed my name
  • We probably wouldn't have all these job fairs at the Airman & Family Readiness Center if the Air Force didn't want to encourage spouses to advance their careers. 
    Twin boys due 7/25/12
  • imageMrsOjoButtons:
    We probably wouldn't have all these job fairs at the Airman & Family Readiness Center if the Air Force didn't want to encourage spouses to advance their careers. 

    Or even MyCCA

  • imageMrsOjoButtons:
    We probably wouldn't have all these job fairs at the Airman & Family Readiness Center if the Air Force didn't want to encourage spouses to advance their careers. 

     

    True.  But, I think it's fair to mention that it's difficult to maintain a normal career path when you are the trailing spouse.  And there are distinct challenges presented by the unpredictability of the moves and the varied exercises/deployments that take the servicemember out of the house.  Add in the fact that those very moves usually take folks away from their home and family support structure, and it can be very difficult to maintain certain types of careers as a military spouse.

    For example, right now I'm trying to choose between having children, or keeping my job/staying in my career field.  Doing both will be challenging to the point of near impossibility.  However, I'm 33, and if I want to have kids, I probably should start thinking about it soon.  I have just now come to realize that I really do want to do both, and that has me trying to figure out how to manage the travel in my career with the messed up training "schedule" that my husband has.  (it seems to change at least from week to week, sometimes day to day...  there have been times when I have left on a business trip, and found out after leaving that he has a field exercise while I'm away)

    I really need to look into how dual military couples manage this sort of thing - what a family care plan looks like, and how they manage it when their own extended families are far away/unable to help.  I'll admit, though - they at least have the advantage that the both work for the same employer, and their command generally understands the pressures that exist on the other spouse.  My boss has no comprehension of the military, and every time someone connected with DH's work asks me what I do, their eyes glaze over after about 6 words, even when I am using the simplest description of my job...

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  • There's a huge difference between the AF doesn't care and it's hard to be a working/trailing spouse. Because I'll be honest, my company doesn't care that my H has a job. 

    I agree that it's difficult to be a working spouse, but obviously our little family thinks that the benefits (money, a chance to gain good resume experience, a general feeling of self-worth) far outweigh the negatives (opposite hours from H, missing family readiness bunco nights, etc.). 

    I've seen a lot of military surprise homecomings. It wouldn't work on me. I always have my back to the corner and my face to the door. Looking for terrorists, criminals, various other threats, and husbands.
  • Eh I can relate. Our MTF (and I don't have the option of going off base here) really does suck but it's because they suck at time management. I have been left for 1+ hours in the patient room multiple times. After waiting 1+ hours I got asked if I could reschedule to which I said no, I had already taken the afternoon off from work. They made me feel guilty for keeping my appointment. It wasn't because of an emergency, in which case I would have understood.

    My civilian doctor stateside actually had incentives for her to remain on schedule. If she didn't see you within 15 minutes of your start time, you receive your choice of a free treatment from the esthetician or one hour massage to be scheduled at your leisure. She was late one time in all the years I saw her and I was given what I chose. 

    I chalk this up to crappy time management. I want to blame the navy medicine but let's be honest, it's not the navy's fault these people such at their jobs. It's theirs. I've actually had to walk out of appointments after being left too long and said, sorry but I have to go work, I had an appointment and you did not keep it. I generally then call and do a phone consult, explain the issue that I wasn't seen in a timely manner, and get take care of. Is this ideal? HELL NO, but that's life.

    In the future, I say you find a doctor you like off base and stick with them. When we go back to the states, I plan on going back to awesome, free services if she's late, chick. Not only does that perk keep her on time, but her staff if amazing. :)

    image
  • imageSpunkyBlowfish:

    Eh I can relate. Our MTF (and I don't have the option of going off base here) really does suck but it's because they suck at time management. I have been left for 1+ hours in the patient room multiple times. After waiting 1+ hours I got asked if I could reschedule to which I said no, I had already taken the afternoon off from work. They made me feel guilty for keeping my appointment. It wasn't because of an emergency, in which case I would have understood.

    My civilian doctor stateside actually had incentives for her to remain on schedule. If she didn't see you within 15 minutes of your start time, you receive your choice of a free treatment from the esthetician or one hour massage to be scheduled at your leisure. She was late one time in all the years I saw her and I was given what I chose. 

    I chalk this up to crappy time management. I want to blame the navy medicine but let's be honest, it's not the navy's fault these people such at their jobs. It's theirs. I've actually had to walk out of appointments after being left too long and said, sorry but I have to go work, I had an appointment and you did not keep it. I generally then call and do a phone consult, explain the issue that I wasn't seen in a timely manner, and get take care of. Is this ideal? HELL NO, but that's life.

    In the future, I say you find a doctor you like off base and stick with them. When we go back to the states, I plan on going back to awesome, free services if she's late, chick. Not only does that perk keep her on time, but her staff if amazing. :)

    I'll be honest and say free facial doctor sounds awful to me. What if I have questions? What if she misses something because she's rushing?

     

    I've seen a lot of military surprise homecomings. It wouldn't work on me. I always have my back to the corner and my face to the door. Looking for terrorists, criminals, various other threats, and husbands.
  • imageWishIcouldbeinthe'stan:
    imageSpunkyBlowfish:

    Eh I can relate. Our MTF (and I don't have the option of going off base here) really does suck but it's because they suck at time management. I have been left for 1+ hours in the patient room multiple times. After waiting 1+ hours I got asked if I could reschedule to which I said no, I had already taken the afternoon off from work. They made me feel guilty for keeping my appointment. It wasn't because of an emergency, in which case I would have understood.

    My civilian doctor stateside actually had incentives for her to remain on schedule. If she didn't see you within 15 minutes of your start time, you receive your choice of a free treatment from the esthetician or one hour massage to be scheduled at your leisure. She was late one time in all the years I saw her and I was given what I chose. 

    I chalk this up to crappy time management. I want to blame the navy medicine but let's be honest, it's not the navy's fault these people such at their jobs. It's theirs. I've actually had to walk out of appointments after being left too long and said, sorry but I have to go work, I had an appointment and you did not keep it. I generally then call and do a phone consult, explain the issue that I wasn't seen in a timely manner, and get take care of. Is this ideal? HELL NO, but that's life.

    In the future, I say you find a doctor you like off base and stick with them. When we go back to the states, I plan on going back to awesome, free services if she's late, chick. Not only does that perk keep her on time, but her staff if amazing. :)

    I'll be honest and say free facial doctor sounds awful to me. What if I have questions? What if she misses something because she's rushing?

     

    Which was my hesitation at first, so let me explain: Each of her appointments have one hour. Most MTF/private practice see patients for 20 minutes tops and book on top of each other. which is where the "oh crap I'm late if someone has more than one thing they need to talk about" issue comes into play. Most patients of hers take 5 minutes with the PA/nurse and then 30 minutes with her. So in theory she has plenty of time to finish out paperwork, get referrals, write Rx's and then see the next patient. She has the one hour buffer in case her patients do need more time.

    I never felt rushed and always had plenty of time with her. She also has lots of staff in house (dermo, massage therapist, nutritionist, endocrinologist, acupuncture, psychologist, the list goes on).

    One would think medical care like this wouldn't exist but it does. I am the first one to complain about lacking medical care and have zero issues with her practice. 

    ETA above it should be 25 minute buffer, not one hour* I've gone the whole hour and FWIW she wasn't late for her next appointment.

    image
  • imageAudette:

    imageMrsOjoButtons:
    We probably wouldn't have all these job fairs at the Airman & Family Readiness Center if the Air Force didn't want to encourage spouses to advance their careers. 

     

    True.  But, I think it's fair to mention that it's difficult to maintain a normal career path when you are the trailing spouse.  And there are distinct challenges presented by the unpredictability of the moves and the varied exercises/deployments that take the servicemember out of the house.  Add in the fact that those very moves usually take folks away from their home and family support structure, and it can be very difficult to maintain certain types of careers as a military spouse.

    For example, right now I'm trying to choose between having children, or keeping my job/staying in my career field.  Doing both will be challenging to the point of near impossibility.  However, I'm 33, and if I want to have kids, I probably should start thinking about it soon.  I have just now come to realize that I really do want to do both, and that has me trying to figure out how to manage the travel in my career with the messed up training "schedule" that my husband has.  (it seems to change at least from week to week, sometimes day to day...  there have been times when I have left on a business trip, and found out after leaving that he has a field exercise while I'm away)

    I really need to look into how dual military couples manage this sort of thing - what a family care plan looks like, and how they manage it when their own extended families are far away/unable to help.  I'll admit, though - they at least have the advantage that the both work for the same employer, and their command generally understands the pressures that exist on the other spouse.  My boss has no comprehension of the military, and every time someone connected with DH's work asks me what I do, their eyes glaze over after about 6 words, even when I am using the simplest description of my job...

    I'd love to speak with you offline. I just made the exact same decision before we TTC. I'm keeping my job (which has lots of travel involved with it) and having the baby.

    Anyway, my boss has no comprehension of the military either, but my job tends to affect our day-to-day lives less. Yes, I travel for work-- and we had to have the conversation that with the baby I'll be much less able to drop everything and go wherever, whenever, I'll need time to plan-- but otherwise, I've got a fairly normal civilian schedule for my type of work.

    My H's command, though, has no conception of what my job entails. Like PP mentioned, eyes glaze over. I usually get a sort of patronizing "Good for you for maintaining your career!" And what makes it even more difficult is, a lot of the guys in charge have no conception of what it's like to be a dual career family, since their wives have either not worked or worked when it was convenient for the family. And that's the hard part.

    Again, my issue has not once been with whether or not the military as an organization "cares" -- it's more like the people within the organization make it harder and more isolating to be a spouse with a more traditional career. That has definitely been my experience, and most of the responses here have reinforced my opinion.

    Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker
  • imageLuluP82:
    imageAudette:

    imageMrsOjoButtons:
    We probably wouldn't have all these job fairs at the Airman & Family Readiness Center if the Air Force didn't want to encourage spouses to advance their careers. 

     

    True.  But, I think it's fair to mention that it's difficult to maintain a normal career path when you are the trailing spouse.  And there are distinct challenges presented by the unpredictability of the moves and the varied exercises/deployments that take the servicemember out of the house.  Add in the fact that those very moves usually take folks away from their home and family support structure, and it can be very difficult to maintain certain types of careers as a military spouse.

    For example, right now I'm trying to choose between having children, or keeping my job/staying in my career field.  Doing both will be challenging to the point of near impossibility.  However, I'm 33, and if I want to have kids, I probably should start thinking about it soon.  I have just now come to realize that I really do want to do both, and that has me trying to figure out how to manage the travel in my career with the messed up training "schedule" that my husband has.  (it seems to change at least from week to week, sometimes day to day...  there have been times when I have left on a business trip, and found out after leaving that he has a field exercise while I'm away)

    I really need to look into how dual military couples manage this sort of thing - what a family care plan looks like, and how they manage it when their own extended families are far away/unable to help.  I'll admit, though - they at least have the advantage that the both work for the same employer, and their command generally understands the pressures that exist on the other spouse.  My boss has no comprehension of the military, and every time someone connected with DH's work asks me what I do, their eyes glaze over after about 6 words, even when I am using the simplest description of my job...

    I'd love to speak with you offline. I just made the exact same decision before we TTC. I'm keeping my job (which has lots of travel involved with it) and having the baby.

    Anyway, my boss has no comprehension of the military either, but my job tends to affect our day-to-day lives less. Yes, I travel for work-- and we had to have the conversation that with the baby I'll be much less able to drop everything and go wherever, whenever, I'll need time to plan-- but otherwise, I've got a fairly normal civilian schedule for my type of work.

    My H's command, though, has no conception of what my job entails. Like PP mentioned, eyes glaze over. I usually get a sort of patronizing "Good for you for maintaining your career!" And what makes it even more difficult is, a lot of the guys in charge have no conception of what it's like to be a dual career family, since their wives have either not worked or worked when it was convenient for the family. And that's the hard part.

    Again, my issue has not once been with whether or not the military as an organization "cares" -- it's more like the people within the organization make it harder and more isolating to be a spouse with a more traditional career. That has definitely been my experience, and most of the responses here have reinforced my opinion.

    This is the discussion I was looking for.

    I will accept that the military wants to encourage spouses to further their education and possibly to work, but not too far. Because if a spouse furthers her career too far, that career starts to take on more weight, both financially and practically, and it takes away from the weight of the military career. My example: I am a physician, and my H is an AD Army officer. My job requires more degrees and more training, and therefore my salary is higher. This makes it difficult to justify, in our minds, the frequent moves that H's job requires, since each time he moves, I have to do a new job search, credential with new insurance companies, get a new state license, etc. This process can take many months. Never mind the fact that I haven't been able to get much out of any company's 401K or other benefits, due to leaving the job before the employer contributions kick in. Because of this, my H will likely separate from the military early (when his current commitment ends), because, both financially and lifestyle-wise, it makes more sense for mine to be the "leading" career. In this instance, the military lifestyle will cost the Army one very hard-working officer. Not that theren't dozens of others who can do the same job as he does, but if all those wives had careers...

    Also, in my career field, the employers DO typically care about spousal employment. When I left training and looked for my first job an an independent physician, other friends in the same position had potential employers ask about their spouses' employment and whether he/she needed any assistance looking for a job in the area. This is common in the medical field, when trying to recruit a physician, but obviously not in most jobs.

    Re: TTC and keep a career: I am currently in the same place and we have had long discussions about this, especially given that we do not know anyone in the same position (all of H's colleagues' wives are SAHM and have a couple kids already). I am interested in talking to anyone who finds themselves in the same position and feels pulled between her career, H's military career, and the prospect of having kids far from family.

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  • imageCK2MD:
    imageLuluP82:
    imageAudette:

    imageMrsOjoButtons:
    We probably wouldn't have all these job fairs at the Airman & Family Readiness Center if the Air Force didn't want to encourage spouses to advance their careers. 

     

    True.  But, I think it's fair to mention that it's difficult to maintain a normal career path when you are the trailing spouse.  And there are distinct challenges presented by the unpredictability of the moves and the varied exercises/deployments that take the servicemember out of the house.  Add in the fact that those very moves usually take folks away from their home and family support structure, and it can be very difficult to maintain certain types of careers as a military spouse.

    For example, right now I'm trying to choose between having children, or keeping my job/staying in my career field.  Doing both will be challenging to the point of near impossibility.  However, I'm 33, and if I want to have kids, I probably should start thinking about it soon.  I have just now come to realize that I really do want to do both, and that has me trying to figure out how to manage the travel in my career with the messed up training "schedule" that my husband has.  (it seems to change at least from week to week, sometimes day to day...  there have been times when I have left on a business trip, and found out after leaving that he has a field exercise while I'm away)

    I really need to look into how dual military couples manage this sort of thing - what a family care plan looks like, and how they manage it when their own extended families are far away/unable to help.  I'll admit, though - they at least have the advantage that the both work for the same employer, and their command generally understands the pressures that exist on the other spouse.  My boss has no comprehension of the military, and every time someone connected with DH's work asks me what I do, their eyes glaze over after about 6 words, even when I am using the simplest description of my job...

    I'd love to speak with you offline. I just made the exact same decision before we TTC. I'm keeping my job (which has lots of travel involved with it) and having the baby.

    Anyway, my boss has no comprehension of the military either, but my job tends to affect our day-to-day lives less. Yes, I travel for work-- and we had to have the conversation that with the baby I'll be much less able to drop everything and go wherever, whenever, I'll need time to plan-- but otherwise, I've got a fairly normal civilian schedule for my type of work.

    My H's command, though, has no conception of what my job entails. Like PP mentioned, eyes glaze over. I usually get a sort of patronizing "Good for you for maintaining your career!" And what makes it even more difficult is, a lot of the guys in charge have no conception of what it's like to be a dual career family, since their wives have either not worked or worked when it was convenient for the family. And that's the hard part.

    Again, my issue has not once been with whether or not the military as an organization "cares" -- it's more like the people within the organization make it harder and more isolating to be a spouse with a more traditional career. That has definitely been my experience, and most of the responses here have reinforced my opinion.

    This is the discussion I was looking for.

    I will accept that the military wants to encourage spouses to further their education and possibly to work, but not too far. Because if a spouse furthers her career too far, that career starts to take on more weight, both financially and practically, and it takes away from the weight of the military career. My example: I am a physician, and my H is an AD Army officer. My job requires more degrees and more training, and therefore my salary is higher. This makes it difficult to justify, in our minds, the frequent moves that H's job requires, since each time he moves, I have to do a new job search, credential with new insurance companies, get a new state license, etc. This process can take many months. Never mind the fact that I haven't been able to get much out of any company's 401K or other benefits, due to leaving the job before the employer contributions kick in. Because of this, my H will likely separate from the military early (when his current commitment ends), because, both financially and lifestyle-wise, it makes more sense for mine to be the "leading" career. In this instance, the military lifestyle will cost the Army one very hard-working officer. Not that theren't dozens of others who can do the same job as he does, but if all those wives had careers...

    Also, in my career field, the employers DO typically care about spousal employment. When I left training and looked for my first job an an independent physician, other friends in the same position had potential employers ask about their spouses' employment and whether he/she needed any assistance looking for a job in the area. This is common in the medical field, when trying to recruit a physician, but obviously not in most jobs.

    Re: TTC and keep a career: I am currently in the same place and we have had long discussions about this, especially given that we do not know anyone in the same position (all of H's colleagues' wives are SAHM and have a couple kids already). I am interested in talking to anyone who finds themselves in the same position and feels pulled between her career, H's military career, and the prospect of having kids far from family.

    CK2MD, we have the same life. Except instead of an MD, I'm a JD. I wrote a more coherent response, but the Nest ate it, apparently.

    Happy to discuss the TTC decision-- we made the decision last summer to go for it, but we're still worried about the logistics of it. We definitely feel pulled in many directions right now.

     

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  • imageCK2MD:

    I will accept that the military wants to encourage spouses to further their education and possibly to work, but not too far.

    IMHO I dont think it's the military's obligation to care. I say that as a working spouse and as a potential future service member who may have a civilian spouse if MH separates before I do.

    I am a therapist, so I get having to change licenses and certifications and the whole troubles that come with moving states with a job that requires those things. Its been a giant pain both times I've had to move. But I dont think its the military's obligation to do much about it. It is a pain to not be able to build 401K with employer match all the time, or build up more vacation by working some place for a long time, or move up in a company, or other benefits I forgo because I will be moving a lot. (Actually one reason I am thinking of joining as a psychologist). Its one thing I considered about my future life before I got serious with MH, but overall I decided the benefits of being with him and in the military life was worth it. I still think it is, even if I dont join and have to continue finding new jobs all the time.

    I think they do have a lot of services for spouses. Although not everyone finds them helpful or benefits from them, they have spousal preference programs for jobs, they have employment offices that help you look for jobs or build job skills, resource centers, etc etc. I dont think they care too much on the macro level about losing one officer because the spouse's job ends up being more important to the family system, especially since many RIFs are happening across the board. Its unfortunate that its going to happen in your/his instance, but what are they supposed to do? Agree to never move him to suit your civilian job, even at the cost of his or at a detriment to the military? There are certain MOSs/AFSCs that move far less frequent or more frequent...

    I guess I am just curious what the military is supposed to do for you in the situation of making it hard to work. Yes, I'll agree that it is hard, and I found it difficult myself. But it is, has been, and will continue to be "mission first" and thats not going to change.

     

    ETA: I've never worked for a complany or heard of a company that cared that much about spouses or their employments, so in my experience the military offers way more support in that area. Because although it is mission first, they do want service members to be happy (and their families bc it effects the SM), and they do want families to be stable (because it makes the SM more stable and better able to do their job), but there is really a limit to how far they can go, KWIM? I think it is great that your old companies or your field cares about finding partners a job, but you do realize that is far from the norm, right?

    edited for grammar

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  • Also, the chosing family/career things in regards to living military life.

    Yes, it will be hard to have kids away from my family, but it'll work out. Because we'll just make it work out. Maybe I am just overly independent, but being away from my parents or the ILs doesnt really phase me as far as kids go. We'll just plan visits or skype or whatever. I was very close to several uncles/aunts I had growing up that lived on the other side of the country, and both sets of grandparents moved away from where we lived when I was fairly young, so they were far away. So civilians have to deal with distance too. If it comes down to having to make life choices about leaving military early or whatnot, then that will be something we have to look into.

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  • imageJillyWtP:

    imageCK2MD:

    I will accept that the military wants to encourage spouses to further their education and possibly to work, but not too far.

    IMHO I dont think it's the military's obligation to care. As a working spouse and as a potential future service member who may have a civilian spouse if MH separates before I do.

    I am a therapist, so I get having to change licenses and certifications and the whole troubles that come with moving states with a job that requires those things. Its been a giant pain both times I've had to move. But I dont think its the military's obligation to do much about it. It is a paing to not be able to build 401K with employer match all the time, or build up more vacation by working some place for a long time, or move up in a complany, or other benefits I forgo because I will be moving a lot. (Actually one reason I am thinking of joining as a psychologist). Its one thing I considered about my future life before I got serious with MH, but overall I decided the benefits of being with him and in the military life was worth it. I still think it is, even if I dont join and have to continue finding new jobs all the time.

    I think, they do have a lot of services for spouses. Although not everyone finds them helpful or benefits from them, they have spousal preference programs for jobs, they have employment offices that help you look for jobs or build job skills, resource centers, etc etc. I dont think they care too much on the macro level about losing one officer, especially since many RIFs are happening across the board. Its unfortunate that its going to happen in your/his instance, but what are they supposed to do? Agree to never move him to suit your civilian job, even at the cost of his? There are certain MOSs/AFSCs that move far less frequent or more frequent...

    I guess I am just curious what the military is supposed to do for you in the situation of making it hard to work. Yes, I'll agree that it is hard, and I found it difficult myself. But it is, has been, and will continue to be "mission first" and thats not going to change.

    Personally, I don't feel they "owe" me anything, and I hope I'm not giving off that impression. I know in our experience, however-- we were in the DC area, and I was employed there. My H's MOS has positions available in that area. But there was literally no one he could talk to about requesting to stay put due to my job. Naturally, if there was nothing available, we'd understand deal with it (as we ultimately did when he did get orders to move). It's just the lack of any sort of structure put in place that is frustrating to me. Doesn't have to be a guarantee (like they do with special needs family members) but it would be nice to at least be able to request. Note-- I think this is USMC specific since my H's Navy colleagues all seem to be able to make these requests.

    Now, we're facing the career designation decision (his MOS automatically gets it, because they really, really need them to stay in). Out of everyone H started with, only like one hasn't mentioned leaving...and I hate to say it, but he's the least qualified out the group. He's concerned he won't be able to get another job. Due to my field, I can't help but try to analyze how they could be more efficient, so it confuses me a bit. If you want people to stay in, make it easier on them and their families as much as possible (out of all the guys-- and for some reason there are no women in the group-- who are speaking of leaving, the #1 reason is their wives and fiances want to pursue careers. One is a dentist, a couple are teachers, a few are lawyers, a couple are in finance or consulting. Other than the teachers, the families could survive just fine on just the wives' income if need be, and following the wives' career would mean the husband could have one too, although not in the service). The only thing they offer is a fairly meager financial incentive in the grand scheme (they could literally make that much $$$ in bonuses in the private sector in much less time than the new commitment would be.).

    They don't have to sacrifice the mission for it. A few very small tweaks would make it easier/more welcoming/less frustrating. Again, just one opinion, and it's very specific to my personal situation.

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  • imageLuluP82:
    My H's MOS has positions available in that area. But there was literally no one he could talk to about requesting to stay put due to my job. Naturally, if there was nothing available, we'd understand deal with it (as we ultimately did when he did get orders to move). It's just the lack of any sort of structure put in place that is frustrating to me. Doesn't have to be a guarantee (like they do with special needs family members) but it would be nice to at least be able to request. Note-- I think this is USMC specific since my H's Navy colleagues all seem to be able to make these requests.

    I obviously dont know jackcrap about the USMC, but there isn't someone who is in charge of writing orders and assignments? I find that hard to believe. I know AF has something like that, and I am sure someone can come in and remind me what the term is, but I know DH wanted this training/follow on assignment so he got many people involved to make it happen, the guy in charge here, the guy above that guy, a general in DC, the general at his old base, and the guy in charge of his orders. I mean, he had everyone under the sun involved. IDK. I'm not saying your H didnt do enough or whatever, just that you can sweet talk people and get things like that done if its availible (they obviously cant make assignments where there arent any)

    Also, maybe this is cynical(having trouble spelling) but maybe they dont care about keeping people if they're wanting out. They are cutting costs like crazy, and if a SM leaves early, thats less in retirement or other benefits they pay, and they can pay a lower ranking SM less. Obviously they cant just do this all over the place because they need the older/higher ranking people for things. But a subset of people, and they then avoid RIFing people who want to stay in? probably a drop in the bucket to them.

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  • imageJillyWtP:
    imageLuluP82:
    My H's MOS has positions available in that area. But there was literally no one he could talk to about requesting to stay put due to my job. Naturally, if there was nothing available, we'd understand deal with it (as we ultimately did when he did get orders to move). It's just the lack of any sort of structure put in place that is frustrating to me. Doesn't have to be a guarantee (like they do with special needs family members) but it would be nice to at least be able to request. Note-- I think this is USMC specific since my H's Navy colleagues all seem to be able to make these requests.

    I obviously dont know jackcrap about the USMC, but there isn't someone who is in charge of writing orders and assignments? I find that hard to believe. I know AF has something like that, and I am sure someone can come in and remind me what the term is, but I know DH wanted this training/follow on assignment so he got many people involved to make it happen, the guy in charge here, the guy above that guy, a general in DC, the general at his old base, and the guy in charge of his orders. I mean, he had everyone under the sun involved. IDK. I'm not saying your H didnt do enough or whatever, just that you can sweet talk people and get things like that done if its availible (they obviously cant make assignments where there arent any)

    Also, maybe this is synical but maybe they dont care about keeping people if they're wanting out. They are cutting costs like crazy, and if a SM leaves early, thats less in retirement or other benefits they pay, and they can pay a lower ranking SM less. Obviously they cant just do this all over the place because they need the older/higher ranking people for things. But a subset of people, and they then avoid RIFing people who want to stay in? probably a drop in the bucket to them.

    They do have someone in charge. The person in charge, though, is not of my H's MOS necessarily, and doesn't seem to even know what is available. I know at least while he was at TBS, there was literally no one they could talk to. Trust me, he tried because at the time his biggest concern was that I'd end up somewhere I hated and couldn't even work.

    We're fairly new in the system-- this is something my H had a hankering to do as a 2nd career and we agreed to try it out. Now, as the decision approaches, he's having lots of conversations as well with everyone under the sun to try and see what he can do, who he can talk to, etc. But during TBS, he couldn't do that. (his Navy peers were able to, my husband just got a form to fill out. The form said East Coast, West Coast, OCONUS, and asked them to rank them 1-3. That was it. It used to be that based on your class rank, you could go and pick your spot, so my H worked his butt off to graduate with honors to be the first pick, but they changed that system).

    I do know in my husband's MOS in particular, they have a huge retention problem. It's not that easy to get good lawyers, especially experienced ones, to go in and stay in. It negatively affects the mission to have a bunch of straight out of law school rookies and that's it. It's an apprenticeship profession-- you learn on the job. If you're not on the job long enough-- and as it is, the vast majority of them are only on the actual job for 2.5 years before their first tour is up, and the majority of them get out, because they can get better paying, more flexible jobs elsewhere-- then you don't know enough to actually be able to help people effectively. As it is, most of the officers who are above captain (they pick up captain very fast since they get credit for law school years) are previously enlisted or officers who had different MOSs before going to law school. Senior officers based on time served, but who don't have any significant legal experience.

    ETA-- the Navy and Air Force seem to be much better about this, and have fewer retention issues. H has met peers in both branches, and they run their process much more efficiently. For starters, they have a senior lawyer running the assignment process, instead of just some random guy. My husband can get sent to do anything, with no notice-- recruiting, whatever. Doesn't appear to happen in the Navy or the AIr Force-- we haven't met any Army. Which is probably why we're doubly frustrated with the way the USMC does it, since if it's possible for other branches to do it...

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  • imageJillyWtP:

    IMHO I dont think it's the military's obligation to care. I say that as a working spouse and as a potential future service member who may have a civilian spouse if MH separates before I do.

    I am a therapist, so I get having to change licenses and certifications and the whole troubles that come with moving states with a job that requires those things. Its been a giant pain both times I've had to move. But I dont think its the military's obligation to do much about it. It is a pain to not be able to build 401K with employer match all the time, or build up more vacation by working some place for a long time, or move up in a company, or other benefits I forgo because I will be moving a lot. (Actually one reason I am thinking of joining as a psychologist). Its one thing I considered about my future life before I got serious with MH, but overall I decided the benefits of being with him and in the military life was worth it. I still think it is, even if I dont join and have to continue finding new jobs all the time.

    I think they do have a lot of services for spouses. Although not everyone finds them helpful or benefits from them, they have spousal preference programs for jobs, they have employment offices that help you look for jobs or build job skills, resource centers, etc etc. I dont think they care too much on the macro level about losing one officer because the spouse's job ends up being more important to the family system, especially since many RIFs are happening across the board. Its unfortunate that its going to happen in your/his instance, but what are they supposed to do? Agree to never move him to suit your civilian job, even at the cost of his or at a detriment to the military? There are certain MOSs/AFSCs that move far less frequent or more frequent...

    I guess I am just curious what the military is supposed to do for you in the situation of making it hard to work. Yes, I'll agree that it is hard, and I found it difficult myself. But it is, has been, and will continue to be "mission first" and thats not going to change.

     

    ETA: I've never worked for a complany or heard of a company that cared that much about spouses or their employments, so in my experience the military offers way more support in that area. Because although it is mission first, they do want service members to be happy (and their families bc it effects the SM), and they do want families to be stable (because it makes the SM more stable and better able to do their job), but there is really a limit to how far they can go, KWIM? I think it is great that your old companies or your field cares about finding partners a job, but you do realize that is far from the norm, right?

    edited for grammar

    Yes, yes yes, Jilly.  You've stated, very eloquently, the ideas I've been trying to type.  Well said.

  • Killer-- Well at this point, we have a year before we decide if H is staying in or not. But yes, it's his first tour. I realize it's slightly different for the 2nd or subsequent, but from speaking with others who've been in longer in this MOS it's not substantially different just becase of the way it's run. In other branches, there is someone who specifically deals with JAGs, who is also a JAG and so understands a lot of concerns which only JAGs would have (i.e. types of law they are interested in exploring). For some reason, in the USMC, they're thrown in with all the other Os. So a lot of things they do make no sense.

    Example-- they'll throw someone in a trial billet who has no interest in being a trial lawyer. And then someone really wants to be a trial lawyer, and has the same rank, but they'll throw him/her in a non-trial billet. It affects everyone, not just the SMs in the billets, since the rest of the Marines and their families are the ones getting services. And, like I explained before, they have retention issues. I know they're getting people out all over the place, but for JAG specifically, they just announced higher bonuses if people will career designate and stay in. The problem with JAG in particular is, they get paid more in the private sector quite easily, so the money isn't much of a draw. It's a very specific problem which would be easy to solve with a couple of tweaks (but this has nothing to do with the difficulties of being a career spouse, though I know for us, it would be easier to decide that H should career-designate if they would at least act like they'll entertain the thought of sending us where we want to go, but thus far, we've had no luck).

    ETA-- sorry for monopolizing the thread, especially as now it's moved on so beyond the OP.

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  • I didn't read all the responses, or even your whole post to be honest, but I'm a working spouse and yes, while it sucks that they have events during the day and you're at work, that doesn't mean you can't plan your own things OR take a long lunch during that time.

    There's that whole saying that if the military wanted you to have a wife (or a husband for those female SMs), they would have issued you one. It's true. Yes, I'm married to a SM and I wasn't issued, but I also accept that not all spouses work (civilian or military) and I choose to work so I might miss out on other fun stuff. That's the choice I made.

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  • imageKiller Cupcake:

    It's okay. Convos flow like that.

    Yeah, I get why that's annoying. I know for H, he doesn't have a specific career monitor. There's just a "career monitor" and he/she deals with all E MOSs. So when a specific issue regarding his lat move came up, the answers were really unclear and sometimes outright incorrect. H would typically seek out people already in the MOS to talk to instead. I think it just comes down to numbers, honestly. The MC is smaller and therefore they don't have the people to designate to jobs like specialized monitors. 

    Yup, it sounds like it's exactly the same for O and E, then. I definitely know they're approaching my H and want him to stay (he's being taken out by colonels and lt. colonels and asked what he wants to do, what questions they can answer, etc.) so hopefully we'll be able to get some clarity before he has to tell them his decision. It's especially frustrating when the monitor doesn't know the answer, and just blurts out "Needs of the MC!" Not exactly a career counselor response Smile We just want answers! But I know it's a learning process.

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  • imageJillyWtP:

    Also, the chosing family/career things in regards to living military life.

    Yes, it will be hard to have kids away from my family, but it'll work out. Because we'll just make it work out. Maybe I am just overly independent, but being away from my parents or the ILs doesnt really phase me as far as kids go. We'll just plan visits or skype or whatever. I was very close to several uncles/aunts I had growing up that lived on the other side of the country, and both sets of grandparents moved away from where we lived when I was fairly young, so they were far away. So civilians have to deal with distance too. If it comes down to having to make life choices about leaving military early or whatnot, then that will be something we have to look into.

    It's not that I have a problem having children and living away from family.  It's that my job requires a minimum of at least 25% travel, which can go up to almost 50% in busy years.  (I'm in Thailand for two weeks this month, TX for two weeks next month, a one week trip to Hungary is on the horizon before easter, and a week-long trip to Germany is scheduled in May.  That's what is currently on the calendar for the first part of this year.  I'm currently in discussions with folks in India and Brazil that may lead to 1-2 week trips being added in when we can finally get to an agreement on things...  I'm not talking about going out of town for a day here or there...)

    Match that with a spouse in the military, and suddenly we need to get really creative with ways to make sure the kids have a place to stay with adult supervision when I'm out of town for work, and DH has a field exercise, or a early call because some doofus got a DUI, or whatever...

    If we had family nearby, we would at least have the option of asking family to help.  But, because we don't - we'll need to figure out alternates.  And with the frequent moves, that means finding new people we would trust with our children after every move.

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  • imageLuluP82:

    Personally, I don't feel they "owe" me anything, and I hope I'm not giving off that impression. I know in our experience, however-- we were in the DC area, and I was employed there. My H's MOS has positions available in that area. But there was literally no one he could talk to about requesting to stay put due to my job.

    They don't have to sacrifice the mission for it. A few very small tweaks would make it easier/more welcoming/less frustrating. Again, just one opinion, and it's very specific to my personal situation.

     

    This is the part I agree with - if it were not for the frequent moves, and the utter lack of scheduling/planning/forward thinking that seems to happen in the army, we'd have a lot fewer issues.

    All I'd want is a bit of stability.  We've been married 6 years.  We have lived in four states during that time.  If I could trust that we'd stay in one place for more than a year, I could potentially look for work in my field that doesn't have as much travel as the job I have (the travel is the key reason why telecommuting works for the job I have right now - one airport is mostly the same as another).  But no one is going to high a mid level engineer if they can't be sure they'll get at least 2-3 years, preferably 5-6 years out of her.  It's not economically reasonable for them.

     

    It's a tweak, and it's one that we have heard was in the plans for ages, but we have yet to see any sign of it actually happening.

     

    I don't think the military owes me anything, but I do think that my husband's service puts me in a very difficult career position - any position my husband would take that requires this type of frequent move/instability would have the same challenges.  We made the concious decision that DH would be the primary job spouse, and I would be the trailing spouse, and I am OK with that decision.  But, it's a slap in the face every time someone mentions how much the army does to help spouses get jobs, because most of it is crap unless you want a GS job, or a service job, neither of which would be rewarding for me. (mentally, emotionally, etc)  I have met too many spouses with highly prized skills that can't use them because the moves preclude them from the employee pool that would be considered for the types of jobs that would use those skills.  Many with math and science backgrounds that the job market is currently screaming for, even, but they aren't marketable in their field because they have no locality stability.  And it's sad to see.

     

    Frankly, it's been a source of discussion in our household about DH getting out early.  Just like others on this board, I could easily support our household with DH as a stay at home dad (even though he actually has very marketable skills).  For us, it's a consideration that we need to keep in mind when we are looking at our options.  Right now, we are choosing to have DH stay in (he has less than a year's obligation at this point), but the impact to my career is a factor in our decision making. 

    The army may discover it loses out on some very skilled and useful people because this type of decision has driven people from continuing their service.  And that is where I grow concerned - the impact may not be what is best for the army...  Yes, they want to reduce numbers, but they do want to retain the best, and this sort of thing may keep that from happening.

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  • While I've got a few more spare moments...

     

    I do sometimes find it frustrating that many of the spouse activities are during the day.  But, I can deal with that - DH's first unit was actually pretty good about having evening things occassionally, and the current unit is, too.  At the last base, though, there were literally _no_ activities in the evening, and it was pretty isolating - it was a small training base with a relatively low population base in the surrounding area, so there wasn't much opportunity to meet folks on my own.  I managed to do it, after a few abortive attempts, but because I missed all the day-time activities, I also missed out on _information_ - like when the darn ball was going to be, or what days DH might get off early, or what assistance was available for certain things, etc.  They had zero dissemination of this information other than by attending things during the day.

    I tried getting on email lists, or getting into a key calling list, or whatever.  Nothing worked.  I just spent the entire time we were there not knowing when anything was going on, or what events were happening on base, or such...  There were a few embarrassing moments because I missed out on something that everyone else knew about and folks were confused how I hadn't received the information.  I'd explain that I didn't get any emails/phone calls to let me know, and that just generated more confusion.  It was very obvious that a _huge_ assumption was being made there that I was not working, and was available during the day.  That was frustrating - at least have some form of communication about things that everyone can access, especially if you expect them to know the information.

     

    Thankfully, we've moved to a different base, and this one seems to be more like the base prior to the bad one.  Maybe it's an issue with training bases - we were only there 6-7 months, so it was somewhat unusual I had a job...

     

    ETA: That sucked at conveying what I was trying to say - basically, I don't care if I miss coffees or other social outings.  I do care when I miss out on important information that I am expected to know, simply because they can't be bothered to get that information out in a method other than attendance at something during my workday.

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  • Wow, this topic got a lot of comments. I am just now sitting down to read some...

    To answer a few...the issue at the med clinic is more in them not calling me to tell me not to bother coming in--and their quick fix is a "same-day appointment" that I won't be able to do anyway. In case anyone cares, they still haven't called me for that.

     

    On the topic of socials: It would be nice if the one thing I would like to go to (the flight) were at a time I could go. The stated purpose of the flight is "so you can see what your husbands do"...and most of the non-working spouses and SAHM already know and have been on these flights before because  they are super-involved. Plus, in the email, the stated reason for having it during the day is "so you don't have to pay for childcare"...I'm sorry, but my day's lost wages are probably more than it costs for a baby-sitter.

     

    As for the calls: After my H's first deployment with this squadron, they stopped mid-way home and he called me and gave me a time when he would arrive. I was able to meet him, but I did mention to him and the commander's wife that I hadn't been called. It's not the key spouses who call in our squadron, it's the DO. We had a change of command and I told the new commander's wife I had this problem in the past. This time...no call again. And no notice either because H had last talked to me the night before. H checked with the DO to see the phone number they had on file...and it was right. So that's pointing to an "operator error."

     

    Glad there seems to be a few other people who see my frustrations on here. And I totally get that a lot of people don't understand because they don't work.

     

     

  • Audette, your schedule sounds similar to mine. I telecommute also, and I spent most of the past 2 years since H has been in flying places. Luckily we appear to have a bit more stability at this point. But, I had to look for a nanny that was willing to stay overnight and travel if necessary (found one) and I was able to convince my boss that I could do what I do from home and on teleconferences as much as possible.  I'm lucky I have a skillset that my boss isn't willing to give up easily, but I don't make as much as I could (which is okay) and I'm spending a fortune on childcare, since I can't just take my baby to a daycare.

    You are also much better at expressing what I was trying to say-- the assumption that I'm not a working spouse is what makes it isolating. I get it that most of the spouses in H's unit at least don't work. But come on, it's 2012-- is it really that weird that I have a career, too?

    And yup, I also agree with the resources available. It's great they are there, and I'm glad they exist for those they do help, but they do nothing for me. Even spousal preference-- it's actually not for any job I'd be qualified for/interested in, it's mostly for clerical/entry-level type positions. Which I'd never be hired for due to my skill set and education level.

    Baby Birthday Ticker Ticker
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