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Disciplining children/pets, on different page than H [kind of long]
I am starting to get nervous about the next couple of years, and maybe I should not be--WDYT?
I have been a nanny, did as much or more work in raising my much-younger sister in her early years than my mother, have helped out a lot with various kids in the family over the years, and worked at a daycare for a little over a year. I also have held jobs in pet sitting. Kids and animals are all really different from each other and the same approach does not work for every pet or every child, but I pretty much think there is one constant--rewarding bad behavior breeds more bad behavior.
My H, who has NO experience with kids and very little with pets other than ours, is really fighting me on how I want to train our pets and how I want to discipline our child in the future. Our pets are not well behaved at all when he is around, because they get really loud as an attention-seeking behavior, and to get them to be quiet, he gives them attention or treats. Sometimes, he yells at them to be quiet, and they get into a sort of shouting match. When it is just me with them, I might get 5-10 minutes of them being loud just to see if it will get a rise out of me, and then they go about their business once they see I will just ignore it. Usually if they are loud for no apparent reason, I find a reason--there is an animal in the yard, one of them has no water in their dish, the UPS man is hanging out on the porch all confused because of a mistake on a label, or something. They do not just get noisy for my attention, though. Last night, we had a long, angry talk about how he can't handle their noise level and I need to do something about it since I am with them the most. I explained to him, as I have before, that they don't act like that with me, and I have no chance to correct behaviors they don't display with me. I said that I would forward him an article about behavior extinction (which I did) and said that if he spent the next few weeks really working on it with me, we might get to see progress before our baby is born. He is really resisting but says he will try it "for a couple of weeks." I said that may not be long enough, and he said I am making excuses.
This of course led me to ask him what he will do if our child acts out for attention as a toddler. I will be a SAHM for at least the first year, so again, I will be spending the most time with her and will be the one most involved in her discipline. Yet, if he rewards misbehavior with her like he does with our pets, it won't matter what I do--she will act out when he's around because she knows papa will give her a cookie or hold her in his lap if she does it. Or, worse, they will get into a cycle of yelling at each other, each trying to make the other finally give up and do what they want. He was very clear that if she acts out like our pets do, in his mind it will be proof that my ideas don't work, and yelling at her to be quiet will be the first thing he tries.
I feel like I've helped care for a LOT of kids, and I never had any complaints from parents about how I took care of them, except for a couple of parents who didn't understand why their kids were so good at daycare all day but then "suddenly" got wild at home. It feels, well, very familiar right now. I know it's different when it is YOUR child vs. somebody else's at a daycare, but I feel like he shouldn't be fighting me on this. It just seems like common sense that if a child or animal yells for attention, and you give that attention, there is no incentive to not yell for attention in the future. I don't even understand how he is disagreeing with me on this.
I'm having nervous thoughts of years and years of fighting with him about this stuff until he maybe one day gets fed up and finally leaves, or I get fed up and do something drastic. 90% of the couples I know who split up have told me differences in child rearing had a lot to do with it, so maybe that's just freaking me out? WDYT? Is there some potential solution to this I am just not seeing?
I have to run a bunch of errands but will be back to check on this later today if anybody has questions. I know you're supposed to stick around when you post a thread like this, but I think if I waited until tomorrow to ask about it here, I'd just sweat more about it in the meantime.
Re: Disciplining children/pets, on different page than H [kind of long]
This is my thought too. Right now I'm trying to figure out if he has something going on that doesn't allow him to rationalize or understand complex ideas.
My advice is to find some books on discipline that back you up but also spell out effective ways to deal w/ kids. I read Parenting w/ Love and Logic and have looked over 123 Magic.
instead of just telling him "this is how I think it should be done", give him a book that from a 3rd party that also helps spell out some effective approaches.
But honestly- the fact that he seems to discount what you have to say, especially when you have YEARS of experience, concerns me. He's showing a total lack of respect for you.
I have a friend whose DH doesn't show her much respect when it comes to dealing w/ their kids, and he takes the lazy approach (giving in and giving the kids a cookie just to shut them up). Their kids absolutely suffer for it. I don't find them to be enjoyable kids to be around. And she's not forceful/strong enough to get him on the same page as her. So she's basically now on the same page as him.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
Well and to be fair because we don't know the other side - the OP is coming across to me as someone who knows everything about how problem solve with children. Which may be the case, but for someone who isn't a parent, that's part of the territory that comes along with parenting. And the DH may feel like he's already at a loss because the OP "knows what's going to be right" without every considering that different circumstances need different actions.
And disciplining dog behavior is not the same as parenting kid behavior.
OP - Are you saying it's your way or the highway here? Are you willing to work with ideas he has or willing to come up with solutions on what's best for your baby and dogs? It's unclear whether you're dictating how it should be or he's just unwilling to have a discussion about it.
I can see that the post might go this way, but I have to wonder if maybe all her experience is making it difficult for the DH to have any say? IDK just throwing it out there.
The whole time I was reading I was shaking my head, like, "why would you want to think about parenting anything with this dude?" and then I saw your ticker. So, I guess that ship has sailed.
I guess I ditto ECB - find a book or a third party he trusts to help explain to him why he has no idea how life works.
Personalities play a role in this, and I may be assigning too much of the personality of my friends to this - but as I've seen both sides of this play out, that's why I see this as I do.
But I also can't discount Kuus's take on this either.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
How does he usually solve problems? Is he generally stubborn, or can certain kinds of arguments convince him? I had some trouble getting my husband onto the same page about spanking (in a very theoretical way - our first isn't even a year old). He's got a very scientific mind, though, so we started talking about the research, which changed both our positions a bit. It's actually been an interesting series of conversations, and it's let us get to know a little more about each other.
Point is, you know your husband. Under what conditions is he most open to new ideas? If you do it right, coming to a mutual understanding of discipline could bring you closer together.
~Benjamin Franklin
DS dx with celiac disease 5/28/10
I was thinking the exact same thing as well.
So your H expects all pet/chid development to be your job since you have a background in it.
That sucks. I don't know what to tell you.
I need to know the other side of this too. I'm leaning toward one of three right now...
OP is a "know-it-all". Her H is frustruated because he can't live up to her impossible standards and he has no say in what to do with their dogs and children. She's frustruated because he just won't/can't do what she says.
OP's H has some sort of mental issue, like Kuus said first.
OP's H is a lazy-ass good-for-nothing and the OP is in for a long ride.
This could get interesting. For the sake of arguement, I'm going to lean toward scenario #1. Imma run down to the lunch room and make some popcorn.
http://pandce.proboards.com/index.cgi#general
I think you sound like a know-it-all.
You both need to realize that you are partners in this. Just because you have the experience, doesn't mean that he has no place in making parenting decisions. He's 50% of the child. Maybe you need to look through some books and read them together? You both need to learn how to work together with your kids and your pets.
I can't figure out if your a know-it-all or if your H is lazy. I'm guessing a mix of both. I agree with huber's advice. Be partners and research parenting together.
He deserves to have some input and possibly if you had discussions about how to raise kids/animals rather than you telling him and citing articles to back yourself up he would learn, he would have a say, and it would be easier for him to follow through.
We did basic obedience with our dog together. We both went, both talked to the trainer, and both implemented the techniques at home. DH just reminded me of a technique I forgot the other day when trying to get our new dog to sit.
I would be reading books about raising kids and animals together, doing obedience together, meeting with pediatricians together, and at least ask his opinion and listen. When he complains the animals are too loud ask him what he thinks would be a good solution, don't just tell him it's his fault and they're fine with only you.
Give your husband a chance to learn. Ask him what he thinks should be done and then meet half way. I am not here to offend you, but your post made you sound like you bulldoze your H a bit, OP. Yes, you are knowledgeable, but I am wondering if your husband doesn't feel like an equal partner with how you approach it? Is there some parenting class or book you can read together and discuss?
Good luck.
Taking care of other peoples' children satisfactorily does not make you the only one in your house who knows how to best raise/discipline your own unborn child in the future. Trust me on this.
Taking care of other peoples' pets also does not make you the dog expert in your own home.
Taking on the role of "I know how to do it better than you so you should do it my way" is not the best way to manage a marriage, or children. Or pets, for that matter. Even if it's true.
You are arguing over things that have not happened yet, first off, which is always foolish.Find a training course for your dog, since your dh is not inclined to listen to you, and both of you go, and have the instructor tell you both how to extinguish the behavior. It is generally helpful in these kinds of situations to have an outside 'authority' be the one to lay down the rules. If you are more set on being right than you are extinguishing the behavior, you will not want to do this; same with him. This does not bode well for either of you, or the dog.
When you have the kid, worry about how it is you respond to its concerns/needs/poor behavior at that point; but don't come in with the 'I know more than you so we should do it this way' line. You'll lose. Even if you're right.
He is actually a very smart man, but he knows jack about kids and his interpersonal skills work much better for business than for kids. I think if you were to ask him, he'd say the other side is that all those other kids were not our kid, and since every child is different, much of my experience may not apply to our family.
And he would be right.
I am voting #1 in SRS's "3 Scenarios".
He is a very technical problem-solver. If babies were computers, we would be set for any challenge. If I could make a systems flow chart of operant conditioning or something, and demonstrate that other "business units" have used those systems successfully, he'd get it. Since he is really suspicious of child care and parenting books though, I am not really sure how to do this.
In fact, I am not good at calmly explaining things like developmental stages, which is probably not helping. I thought my brain might explode when I had to explain why we need a baby gate for the stairs before she can walk. I am just used to talking with people who already have a certain level of understanding about kids, so it's really hard for me to explain something from a really basic level.
And now I'm justified in my assumption that you're a know-it-all.
Your H would be correct if the bolded is what he would say. What you've learned in your childcare experiences may not be what works best in your own household with your own (unborn) child.
Ease up and let the man have an opinion and a say in how to raise his own child.
http://pandce.proboards.com/index.cgi#general
Dood, why is this even an issue right now? You haven't even given birth yet. Don't attack your home with baby gates until you need them. They're a PITA. I can't wait to get rid of the goddamn things.
When your (unborn) child is 9/10 months old, crawling and starting to toy with the idea of playing on the stairs, then he'll see the need for the baby gates. Until then it's a non-issue and he (and I) see no reason to obstruct the stairwell.
http://pandce.proboards.com/index.cgi#general
If you two split up one day, it won't be because of child rearing issues, it'll be because you treat him like a barely functioning idiot.
Yeesh.
So, you mean he might look at the baby crying and think "huh. maybe I need to do something about this?"
Yeah, he's an idiot.
I think you are a jerk.
Currently Reading: Don Quixote by Miguel De Cervantes
How dare you say that imoan! She has SO much experience. Surely she knows how to handle every.single.type.of.situation that could possibly come about with a child.
That kind of thinking can be very helpful. Don't discourage it. You'd be surprised how many parents make their lives harder because they flail about while they try to problem-solve. My husband was extremely methodical when it came to trouble-shooting our daughter's sleep issues, and he deserves a lot of the credit for our manageable routine.
As PP's said, don't go looking for trouble. This isn't an issue now, at least with the baby. If it comes up later, play to his strengths. Ask him to trouble-shoot. Brainstorm some ideas together and test them out so you can see what works and what doesn't. Results will speak for themselves, but be open to trying things you don't think will work. You might surprise yourself by changing your mind.
Even if he "doesn't know jack" as you say, he'll figure it out when the baby gets here. A lot of people know nothing about children before having their own. And they do just fine.
I had a friend who "knew" everything about babies. Never mind she had not had her own yet. We were hanging out with a group of friends, and DS couldn't stop crying because he needed to burp. She actually grabbed him out of my arms and said, "you need to do THIS." A few months later, she gave birth. When asked how life was going with baby, all she would say was, "it's a lot harder than I thought it would be." She has not since said a word about how I handle DS. Humble pie, indeed.
You remind me a bit of her.
I actually have handled hellions pretty well. I managed to not yell at a toddler after she gave me a fat lip when we had a disagreement over who the car keys belonged to and whether or not it was acceptable to hit people in the face with them. I have remained calm through pee accidents in almost every conceivable location and have had so much barf in my car, it looked like they filmed a sequel to The Exorcist in there. I never felt like I didn't know what to do or couldn't handle it.
It's those creepy kids who are super independent and just look at you all Children of the Corn when you want to help them tie their shoes or whatever that I have the problems with, usually. It's just like...what do you do? They don't want anything except to be left the hell alone, but you can't really do that because of course if you do, that will be the day some psycho tries to show them the "puppies" in the back of his van. I don't know what I will do if my kid doesn't want my help with anything and learns to give me the FFS eyeroll before she learns to walk. I'd sort of rather have a kid who wants to tantrum over breakfast cereal than a kid who doesn't want/need me for anything.
What jumped out at me was the statement that he's frustrated and said that it's YOUR J.O.B. to get the dogs quiet when he's around. That's its your job since you are around the dogs more.
First, that's just insane - how is it your j.o.b., he needs to do it. And second, if he's making it your job and you keep saying "then ignore them, consistently ignore them, never give a cookie" then why isn't he doing THAT and getting good results?
I think a big part of this is that he wants to yell and scream - and be right. He doesn't really care about being effective. At all. And that's a problem.
So, maybe you guys just had a fight and he came-off irrational in the heat of the moment (because frankly, saying that 'if she acts out like our pets do, in his mind it will be proof that my ideas don't work, and yelling at her to be quiet will be the first thing he tries' is irrational).
Everyone is entitled to be irrational from time to time, but if you don't feel confident that he has a better approach to parenting than "yelling at her" then you need to really deal with it. And not by becoming the expert. By becoming the person who insists he educate himself. Because a part of this sounds like a rebellious teenager who say "fix it" and part of this sounds like a spoiled brat who says "I'm right". And neither way is helpful to parenting.