Politics & Current Events
Dear Community,
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Re: Too late for a vaccine debate?
Yeah Spenjamins' response to that one was pretty good haha.
The CDC changes their recommendations because they aren't God. They use the best science available, and that evolves. However, it's still based on science, whereas most of the arguments against are based on "how someone figures it ought to be" mixed in with a little anecdote, myopic vision, etc.
That said, part of the CDC's job is getting as many people to vaccinate as completely as possible, and because of that their schedule aims to reduce the number of visits to the pediatricians office. We found for older DD that multiple combination vaccines resulted in spikes in fever high enough the pediatrician recommended Tylenol, which diminishes vaccine efficacy. So, we only do a limited number of vaccines at any one time, and return at monthly spacings to get the rest. I do agree with you that there are some people that take anti-anti-vaccine a little far...I've had people rip into me for our "delayed" schedule, even though it was recommended by our pediatrician (and through a few moves has continued to be recommended by more than one office), and we've found our kids get the vaccines in some cases earlier than their peers on the "traditional" schedule who have to delay appointments for vacation scheduling or whatever. I've found a lot more crazies on the other side, though, who seem to forget what it is the vaccines are preventing.
I have no idea why I bothered to respond since I usually don't get involved with these debates, but the "you're hurting my feelings" complaint was getting on my last nerve.
You're not the only one. We skip 3 and don't do flu shots. I also never give more than one at a time and split up combo shots.
I still get vaccines (DD just got her MMR a few weeks ago), but that doesn't mean I'm skeptical and still very paranoid about vaccine injury. I did a lot of praying before and after DD's last shot.
I get so fired up about this 'debate' that I avoided that whole thread b/c it makes me so angry.
I don't get the whole 'this is my parenting choice and you make your own decisions' argument. This isn't the difference between you choosing to use cd's vs. sposies. People who choose not to vaccinate when they should (i.e. no allergies, etc) are putting everyone's kids at risk. What they do directly affects the health of my kid and my family. We all have a stake in this.
Antibacterial soap, please. You could have cured whooping cough with food and nature!
I've seen that woman post a lot on the food allergies board on TB and decided long ago that she's a nutter.
I had to laugh at the "we just don't go near people who look sick" one.
To quote Sheldon Cooper:
If influenza wasn't contagious after symptoms manifested themselves, it would have disappeared a long time ago. Between cave dwelling and tool building, Homo habilis would have figured out to kill the guy with the runny nose.
haha, yes, Sheldon, always appropriate
I need to find the magical food of which you speak.
Major, you should be ASHAMED!!!! wow. smh.
lol.
Exactly. Autism or some other severe "side effect" or "negative reaction" which apparently are super super common.
I'd rather my kid have autism, tyvm.
Click me, click me!
Oh god please know I was being sarcastic about the magic food.
Off the top of my head, I know they have changed their recommendation for pertussis vaccines in pregnancy a few times. At one time, it was said you should not get it while pregnant. Then it was safe to get at any time while pregnant. Now they are saying it is safe during pregnancy, but only in the third trimester. They may change the recommendation again to indicate a recommendation during pregnancy only for women in high-risk fields like health care, however, because now studies suggest that getting vaccinated for pertussis while pregnant may make the vaccine significantly less effective for the child when he or she gets it in childhood. Kaiser Permanente and others are studying this now to see if the waning of pertussis vaccine efficacy they are seeing in children is because of an increase in use of acellular vaccines, an increase in pregnant women getting the vaccine, or both. Depending on the results of these studies, the CDC might switch to recommending only non-acellular pertussis vaccines in pregnancy and/or for children.
Similarly, they have changed the recommendation for the vaccine against meningitis. I don't remember precisely what the schedule used to be, but now they are recommending it as early as nine months. I believe the change was made in June, and the recommendation was previously to give this sometime after the child turns two but before starting kindergarten (again, don't remember the exact age that used to be on the schedule, just that it was not recommended under 2). When the vaccine was first released, it was recommended only for children ten and older.
The rotavirus vaccine was also once pulled by the FDA, and then they released a different version that is now considered safe. Yet, as of October, the FDA was still studying it for the same side effect (intussusception). In European studies, the rate of intussusception for infants in the week immediately after receiving the vaccine is much higher than in the American studies, and a lot of experts think it's because of how the CDC's VAERS system works, small test group sizes, and how/where the data was collected. None of the non-American studies rely on self-reporting, for example, and all of them were done in large hospitals. I will not be surprised if this vaccine's recommendation changes to an older age sometime in the next couple years because of more rigorous studies.
Meanwhile, Fluzone is the only influenza vaccine recommended for use in infants and children 6-23 months of age by many state agencies, but other brands of the vaccine with much higher incidence of febrile seizures are still commonly used because the CDC does not differentiate between different vaccines available in its recommendation (with the exception of the nasal spray during pregnancy). I suspect that this recommendation will also soon change; it is "under review" right now.
FWIW, I think the rates of side effects are also under-reported through VAERS. I, for example, had a reaction to a flu vaccine and wasn't aware at the time that VAERS existed, and who knows if the pharmacy where I got it ever contacted them. I'm fine now and just get a brand of the flu vaccine that doesn't contain the ingredient I am allergic to (sulfa antibiotics), but to me the troubling thing about it is that it happened at all--my records clearly state that I am allergic to sulfas, and it is a known ingredient in several brands of the flu vaccine, yet I was given one of those brands. This is why I now research the ingredients of vaccines. I didn't before, I got very sick because I didn't, and medical professionals are apparently not aware of the ingredients, either. So, if the CDC does not distinguish between brands of vaccine based on their components, doctors and pharmacists are not aware of possible allergen ingredients, and customers are not necessarily aware either, who would report it when it happens anyways? If you aren't even aware that your symptoms are being caused by a vaccine, why would you call VAERS to report it? I am not against vaccines at all--I just think that people should be more careful and informed instead of necessarily assuming that whatever the CDC says right now is what's best for them and their children.
I think this is a very appropriate and common-sense approach. I think it's something most parents should be open to. I hope that people read this and see that there are choices in between "all vaccines exactly according to the CDC schedule" and "no vaccines at all, ever."
Considering that I've been accused of wanting to kill preemies because I am going to have my LO on an alternative schedule, though, and considering that people have accused me of lying about my vaccine reaction because "they don't happen," my eyebrow starts to lift whenever I see people loudly jumping onto the anti-anti-vaccine bandwagon. Thanks for not being one of "those people."
You weren't serious? What the eff am I supposed to do now?
While I love you all equally, MW, TTT, and IIOY have my favorite responses in that thread. MW "I'm sorry your brother didn't die of mumps and instead lives as an inconvenience to your family" is maybe the most awesome thing I have ever read on the internet.
It was on my FB wall. She is my FB friend. At the risk of getting defriended, I do have to say the line about her son being given 6 months to live is new to me.
<a href="http://www.thenest.com/?utm_source=ticker&utm_medium=HTML&utm_campaign=tickers" title="Home D
Yeah that was new to me too, and I totally give it the
.
Honestly, I do not want to have it out with her anymore. Last time I did it was by refuting her "heard immunity is a myth" statement and she basically told me I was stressing her out and she and "my baby" just didn't need that kind of bad energy. So she took her apple cider vinegar and went home.
I hear ya. At times I find it so hard not to respond, but when I do, I'm reminded that it's just not worth wasting my time.
<a href="http://www.thenest.com/?utm_source=ticker&utm_medium=HTML&utm_campaign=tickers" title="Home D
Cognitive dissonance.
And willful stupidity.
I've seen her family blog that isn't in her siggy anymore and I don't recall any mention of that either.
Start another thread to stir the pot. All of these people who refused to vaccinate because they're afraid it might make their kid retarded, are these the same people who would refuse to get an amnio because it "wouldn't change anything [they'd] do." If you wouldn't abort for Downs, why would you refuse to vaccinate because of the risk of autism, which by the way isn't even a risk. Any child who has "autism" after vaccinations probably has a mitochondrial disorder and I would hope they would be advocating for more research into THOSE conditions rather than forcing the NIH and CDC to spend its resources establishing for the 15,000th time, the nonlink between the MMR and autism.
You know what recommendation they have not changed? That you should get your damn vaccinations and boosters. Timing is one thing; caving to public hysteria simply to increase compliance is one thing. Utterly refusing to vaccinate because you're "skeptical" despite literally mountains of evidence on the safety and efficacy of vaccines is dumb. I'm sorry to be that blunt and yes I did give up being reactionary for Lent, but this is such a huge and consequential public health and safety issue, people who refuse to vaccinate their children really should be ashamed. They should be embarrassed to tell people they haven't vaccinated in the same way if I lost my temper and slapped some stranger's kid in the face, I would be ashamed and embarrassed (and also liable).
You know... my fears of Idiocracy are suddenly evaporating...
Anecdotal information: I got an MMR vax and I am NOT autistic. YWIA.
40/112
This is the best summary of the logic fail that IS the birth month and tri boards. Well done.
I am a runner, knitter, scientist, DE-IVF veteran, and stage III colon cancer survivor.
I don't know. I think the poster on WIC does a pretty good job summarizing the logic fail. Like, "I don't have money for food or health care, so I'm not going to vaccinate. You know, because we totally have the resources to handle a HIB-induced hospitalization."
Reading the tri boards is all anyone should need to know that compulsory vaccination is the only way to solve this problem. What's that saying, "You can't fix stupid." or something?
40/112