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Re: @ Flameful confession
I agree with everyone else that your marriage has more problems than just your spending habits. You're probably blocking them out just like you're blocking out how much you spend.
Also, I'd be livid if my partner told me, for the second time in our relationship, that they'd amassed a considerable debt. Especially if we were still paying off the first debt. I'm not going to lie, I'm fairly certain that a stream of hurtful negativity would be flying out of my mouth.
I'd be livid if my husband revealed to me that he had once again racked up thousands of dollars in debt behind my back, and continued to lie to me about it. I'd be particularly livid if the only reason I found out, *both times*, was because he didn't see any way to keep the lie going. It indicates a lack of remorse...it's really easy to feel really bad after you get caught doing something, but since you didn't own up until backed into a corner for all he knows you would have continued spending a $1000+ in debt a year for the next 20-40 years, and will do it yet again. If it was me, having kids, it would also bother me more, because although the dollar figure isn't insanely large with interest (and again, the potential this could keep going...on top of still paying off the last debt...) I'd view it in some ways in terms of what it was taking from the kids.
He didn't have the right to speak to you like that, and if it's part of a larger pattern of verbal abuse, I'd have a problem with it. If he's only blown up over lack of trust issues, though, and he's typically supportive (I understood you to say he stands up for you to your mom, no?), I'd let him cool his jets, then figure out a way to handle your spending issues and rebuild trust.
What came first, the relationship problems or the addictive spending?
Sounds like a chicken or the egg issue to me.
Those are some hateful words. Is he always like this? Are you dealing with problems in your relationship by compulsively spending?
Counseling. Pronto. If he has abusive tendencies, seek counseling on your own as it may not be safe to address problems in marital counseling.
Good luck.
How much debt was it the first time? Would you have ever told him, either time, if you hadn't been about to be exposed?
How did he react the first time? Was his anger unusual, or is he frequently angry? Did you put a plan into place after the first time to prevent this from happening again?
I'm kind of surprised that people are glossing over her actions here, and focusing on the words he said, out of anger, when finding out that his wife willingly deceived him to the tune of $8K, for the second time - when they're still trying to pay for the first time.
I cannot imagine how betayed I'd feel, and I would certainly be thinking that my H was a selfishass if he pulled something like this - TWICE - and only told me because he was about to be caught.
ETA: I apologize for my record-setting lengthy sentences.
this, 1000%. i read you post and thought "i wish a muthafvcker would"
i had a similar issue (although it was like $700 i put on one of my cards), and once we sat down, went to therapy and really took a hard look at our finances, we made some serious adjustments. our budget was set up so that we both had $X amount for "spending money" every month, but there were certain things i didnt' think should come out of my pending money pot, and should be a joint expense, and those were the things (hair, rx copays, odds and ends for the girls, etc) i was putting on my card. We worked that all out and we can still use our cards (we have joint and separate ones) but the balance can never be above 25% of the limit (although we rarely carry a balance) and the other spouse can ask to see a balance whenever they'd like.
i seriously wish you guys the best.....
this is my thought, too...but I didn't really feel comfortable saying it..
You know how we do
It was about $22K in CC the first time and about $15K in student loan that he didn't know about.
He did the bills for a while but slowly he started giving them to me to do them with him and then about 4 months ago he stopped looking at our accounts all together. We have joint finances and then personal accounts for our fun money. Our paychecks are dumped into the joint and then a transfer goes to the personal weekly.
I've been using that fun money to pay those bills. We would get into arguments because he couldn't understand why I couldn't stay on budget with that money as generous as it was and I always had a way of justifying it to him that it was a joint expense. or would be good for a while and then start back up. I tell him when things would get paid. We never looked at my credit again and he never questioned it when we bought my car or did other financing related things.
I know he said a lot out of anger. I know it doesn't make it right. He generally is very supportive of me. We've grown up together in a lot of respects. I agree we (I) don't communicate well. Part of it is shame because I am supposed to know better. Part that I fear ending up like my parents who are terrible with money too.
Honestly, I was/am surprised too. (One of the reasons I made a new name.)
I just keep thinking of what I would anticipate the response to be if someone posted their H had done this to them - and I am certain people would be yelling to divorce him and that he was selfish and doesn't deserve the wife.
OP - I hope you are able to work through this. Clearly, counseling is in order to understand why you are doing this, and how your family can move forward. I wish you the best of luck.
So you've essentially lied and hidden $45k from your spouse. His reaction was harsh, but honestly I can understand where he's coming from. It's a major, major breech of trust, especially considering it's not the first time you've hidden large amounts of debt.
I really hope you get some counseling for yourself and that you can work through this.
Cripes. No wonder he blew a gasket this time around if you had amassed that amount of debt the first time. I think I'd walk out the door and not return for a while.
Am I reading correctly that you racked up $8k in 4 months?!
You are obviously dealing with a compulsion issue which you need to address whether you stay married or not. If he says you "always f- up a good thing" are you someone who pushes people away if they get too close?
8K is a lot of money to me, and I would've flown off the handle if my spouse had told me this, especially if it's the second time something like that had happened. It sounds like, regardless of what he wants, you need to take a step back and examine yourself and the relationship. Is it making you happy? Are you missing something? And then don't wait around for what HE wants to do. Decide for yourself what you want out of this relationship. Maybe you'll be on the same page and maybe you won't. I hope you're able to work to a resolution.
No I did not.It has been over 3 years.
Never mind that it only took 4 months to breach trust again. I'd be livid, too.
No, I've been paying this out of my personal account over the last 3 years. It started with a bill I got from before the first time that I was afraid to tell him about... I just meant that it seems like he checked out of the bills the last 4 months.
No. I mean yes, you were dishonest and irresponsible.. But the things he said to you are cruel and equally irresponsible. Don't own all the issues by yourself!
I wish you good luck.
I agree totally. I would go nuclear if my husband put our family in a precarious situation because he felt the need to buy crap that no one needed. Twice. And lied about it.
I may be a Cheney, but I wouldn't be shocked if words like that came out of my mouth if I were in her husband's shoes. I would be beyond rage.
Lol, H and I have both joint and separate accounts. We have a certain amount for our personal spending (which includes things like gas money, lunches out, drinks with friends, and treating each other, saving for gifts, all that). This is specifically because I don't want him to raise an eyebrow over my Starbucks spending.
Buuuuut in OPs case I think absolute transparency over all spending is probably a good idea. Not that she can't have a shopping "allowance," but that she doesn't go over that amount. It's also helpful to put a line item in the overall budget for new clothes/shoes, or for gifts, or for entertainment. Then there are specific budgets for each of those things, and the "allowance" if for splurges and extras.
And I agree that what the husband said was diickish. I would not be okay with that. At all.
40/112
While what he said to you wasn't cool, I don't know how I would react if I was in his shoes.
If my H racked up $45K during two separate occasions and hid it from me, only coming clean when he was about to be discovered, he'd be looking for a new place to live.
"I wish I could have sparkly tits every single day of my life." --MUNI
Currently Reading: Don Quixote by Miguel De Cervantes
It could be that you guys need a basic financing course to figure out how to handle certain issues when they come up besides just putting them on a credit card w/o knowing of a way to pay them off.
Have you been over to MM and asked them to look over your budget? I know its a lot to get together and post, but they will highlight your problem areas and help you get down to a livable expense list. It's very possible that you two are simply living over your means and aren't aware of a way to operate any other way.
OP, if I were your husband I would want all the usernames and passwords to your credit accounts (or to tie them to mint.com), and I'd be reading all the mail that came into the house, and I'd be looking at the receipts for everything your brought into the house.
But if you don't get help for this, those actiosn will probably make you even more secretive and drive you to open new accounts. So you need to have someone help you realize that you have broken your husband's trust, and that's why he has a reason to not trust you.
Your husband sounds pretty financially responsible. He wanted to buy a house, now he's refinancing. He's trying to pay off your debt (that's you, singular, not even you both together) and thinks you two are doing pretty well financially. And then you yank his financil security out from under him. Being disciplined with money takes work. He's been working hard. You went out and bought things you can't even remember and paid for things you've long since forgotten and have betrayed his trust and put your family's security at risk. Yeah, he has a reason to be pisssed.
40/112
I am so sorry, for both of you. He shouldn't be speaking to you that way, but you have to give him some time to process the fact that you've been lying to him (again), and that you have betrayed the goals you've set for your family together (again). This is no small matter, and I would have an enormously difficult time getting past the lying--not just once, but twice.
Yes, he said some hurtful things, but you did some hurtful things. I think a cooling off period is in order, followed by a frank discussion of whether you want to find a way forward together. It will require total commitment from both of you, and probably counseling on your part to find out why you need to overspend/shop compulsively. Good luck to you both.
what were you afraid of? so this was before the first time, but you didn't want to fess up about this when you fessed up about the $22k & $15k?
I'm sorry, if it were me, i'd probably be saying a whole lot of WTF's, but what was said to you, no way. Eventually I can calm down and we can work out the $ situation, but you can't take that sh!t back...that's why i yell at my husband while i'm by myself on the way to work.
I honestly think your H should've saved his words and just left you.
You're STILL acting like the victim... even though you SAY you know you were the problem, I still see excuses. And once again, you're going to cling onto what he said to you this time to be the victim yet again.
Hopefully 3 years from now when you have to come clean about another $15k in hidden debt he'll finally come to his senses and cut his ties with you.
I can't imagine how exhausting it must be not to be able to trust your spouse with even a dime and knowing that the moment you give up 100% control, she's going to yank the rug right out from under you.
Currently Reading: Don Quixote by Miguel De Cervantes
It really is awful, and I'd probably be telling her to leave him. This is the same issue that finally broke up my parent's 35 year marriage. I cannot imagine dealing with such betrayal and lies TWICE in the 12 short years OP and her husband have been together. To me, you may as well cheat on me, because you've lied to me every.single.time you've bought something and hid it, hid a credit card statement, lied about what you'd spent or where something came from, etc., etc. I just don't know how I'd get past it, honestly. How would I ever be able to trust them again?
I totally agree with this. Yes he said hurtful things, but I would be absolutely devistated at the betrayal and I am positive that lots of angry words would be coming out of my mouth.
Agree with this. The things he said to you are deserving of someone who raped & killed toddlers, not someone who hid $8k. His words are incredibly abusive, no matter how furious he is at your news.