Politics & Current Events
Dear Community,
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Re: @ Flameful confession
Hey guys- let's catch up! Not $8k... more like $45k.
And I know I'm in the minority here, but lying is lying. Hiding massive debt (not once, but TWICE) is akin to cheating in my book. Their entire marriage is essentially a lie, as she's pretty much been lying every day of it.
Currently Reading: Don Quixote by Miguel De Cervantes
Um, ditto. He shouldn't have said such hateful things to you. Being suchadick isn't exactly fixing anything. But if I had told my H that I knowingly racked up $8k in debt without telling him, I'd be served with divorce papers. If I had done it previously, and he thought we ha worked through it, and he was betrayed again? Well, he would probably say some hurtful things, too. I wouldnt blame him, because if he had done the same his sh!t would be listed in craigslist and the locks would be changed.
Go to therapy. Ask if he'd be willing to go with you. Don't be surprised if he won't, but do go yourself. You obviously have bigger issues than you can deal with on your own.
And the other thing I wonder...
How high would this latest $8k have gotten if you guys weren't about to refinance and you were FORCED into coming clean?
You would've just kept spending until he discovered it on his own. And you know it. So nobody pat her on the back for it only being $8k. 1. It was a LOT more than that between the two instances and 2. It would've been higher than that if they hadn't decided to refinance at this point in time.
Currently Reading: Don Quixote by Miguel De Cervantes
Yeah, we tend to get a little overly pro-woman without any regard for men on this board. Sometimes, it's warranted and sometimes it's crazy.
He made mistakes and said hurtful, irrevocable things. But the OP made some SERIOUS irrevocable mistakes. OP, you need to get to therapy and a group for compulsive shopping. You have a pattern of very, very harmful behavior, and it needs to stop.
I am sorry that he spoke to you that way, but he's really upset. He was out of line, I agree. This is a big deal.
Your relationship may be over. I am sorry for that.
All of this. The $8,00 isn't chump change, but that's a lot of money the first time.
And he was just starting to trust you again.
If my DH did that I would be 100% livid. Like get out of my house livid.
This might be a deal breaker for me. H knows I have issues with money and debt ( I hate spending and the thought of debt cripples me). So if he committed a huge lie and cover up for years, I'm not sure I'd be able to trust him again. However,if he really said those things word for word, that is ridiculous. I would cry and yell and it would cause insane harm to our marriage, but I do not think I could ever say those things to h.
But yeah, hiding debt is huge. Huge. We would probably be done if h did that.
Of course the money issue is worse and they should figure that out first. I think it is huge what she did. I don't even care about the amount, I think even having a "secret" credit card is bad all on its own.
I think of course his words pale in comparison to the money issue, but part of marriage is communication and after they get past her huge *** up in that area they need to work on his communication as well. I say this as a former dirty fighter myself. Yes at times I still yell. I still curse. (I know in nest world this is not acceptable either but whatever) but I did learn to refrain from saying ridiculously personal stuff in arguments. Mostly because nothing is gained from it, it much harder for the person to get past it and it just proves that confiding about wrongdoings will be met with some over the top fight that can't be dealt with like adults. Then it becomes about who can hurt each other worse, not the issue at hand.
OK. I am the greediest, tightest, most miserly, willshankahoe over my money person I know and I don't think her spending and the resulting lying is an automatic divorce issue. And I am divorced.
She obviously has an issue that she needs help with, just like alcoholism, gambling etc.
Now, if she's not willing to GET that help, then yeah, OK, divorce should probably be on the table, but it sounds like OP is just realizing herself how big a problem she has and that she needs professional help.
Regardless of what your H said to you, you need professional help to deal with your spending addiction.
I hope him divorcing you (which is how I see this playing out) is your wake-up call.
You're lucky that he gave you a second chance but, since you fuuucked up again, now it's time for you to get help.
Yes, I think the number one rule for fair fighting is No Putdowns.
I have a question for the OP (sorry if you mentioned it already):
Did you have this spending problem before you got married/lived with your husband?
i think there's more than enough blame in the fight to go around. are you the catalyst? yes. is that an excuse to verbally abuse someone? no, it's not. do i think this is the only thing going on? unless your DH is off his rocker then no, i don't. there must be a lot more brewing beneath the surface to extract that kind of response.
the first thing you need to to is call the CC companies and put a stop on the cards. no more spending on them.
i honestly think this is a depression thing. if you can't remember what you spent $8K on then you're doing it for the high, not for what you need. if your DH leaves you, you have to be VERY CAREFUL not to do this as a response to your depression.
I was wondering this.
It sounds like you weren't into sharing your financial situation with your H from the start.
Otherwise, ITA with imoan. Hiding debt like this once is godawful. Doing it twice... inexcusable.
I am the 99%.
I totally understand and agree that he should be pissed. I really do.
I imagine that this is a problem that she feels a lot of shame about, hence hiding and lying. I find myself tempted to do that with H on occasion and really sometimes have to force myself not to do so, and it's not b/c he'd be mad but b/c I'm so hard on myself that I don't want to deal with someone else's disappointment on top of that.
So, I could potentially see myself in a parallel situation, where I knew I messed up, early, but the shame of it kept me wanting to hide it forever, and then it would spiral into an uncontrollable lie. It's something I've actually covered in counseling, although that was before H. Apparently it's served me well b/c I haven't really done that to him, but I can still see the potential for it.
I think I'm far more forgiving, though, that most of nest-land. Errors that can be rectified and worked on to prevent a relapse are forgivable. Lack of respect isn't. His words show he doesn't respect you, but from his POV you disrespected him, not just erred, and I can't see him forgiving that.
If it was a pattern of his to put her down, then I'd agree with you. This sounds like a one time, whole world just blew up in his face, kind of deal. He'd probably been holding it in to save her feelings and had thought they'd finally gotten to a better place. Then she tells him that she's fvvcked up yet again.
I don't blame her husband one bit. Should he have said it? No, but that doesn't make a pattern of abusive behavior like some want to claim it is in this thread.
As for the student loan, I wonder if she took it out and never attended school. Wouldn't that amount be approx a semester of out of state tuition for a college?
See sibil, I see what she did as a major lack of respect as well. They cam duo with a financial plan and she not only ignored it,but she hid it for years nd continued to make it worse.
I do not condone what he said at all. If that is whatnhensaud, then there is no excuse. None. But what she did is bad too. And everyone sees it differently but for me trust is all a marriage is, in the end. So something like this, as a repeated and chronic thing, would be hard to recover from,
OP, I really don't think that you have a true sense of just how much you have betrayed your husband. Your husband thought that he was finally getting to a place where he could trust you with finances. Then he finds out that you have been lying and incurring more debt FOR YEARS. And you only "came clean" because he was going to find out anyway.
You are focused on how your husband reacted. What about focusing on your own actions? You prioritized spending over your family, financial stability and having a trusting marriage.
You say that you are in shock. What about him? He just learned that you have betrayed him in this way for the second time. You haven't even paid off the first debt. If my husband did this to me, I don't know that I would even be able to look him in the eyes.
Your husband's words were inappropriate and hurtful. Unless verbal and emotional abuse is typical of him, I think his communication issues could quickly be resolved. I view them as a radical (and inappropriate) response to a huge bombshell that was dropped on him.
Seriously, if OP was the one that flipped sh!t over her husband's secret debt in this scenario, I doubt anybody would be saying she "over-reacted" even the slightest.
If my husband essentially said to me "BTW, remember how a few years ago I totes hid that I was $30k+ in debt and only told you because we were buying the house and I didn't want you to find out AT the bank when they ran a credit check? Yeah, well ... I may be almost $10k in debt again. I'm only telling you now so you won't find out AT the bank when they run a credit check" ... I have no qualms admitting that I would flip epic levels of sh!t on him, and kick him out of the house. Permanently.
I'm more than willing to start validating people's ideas when they start having ideas worth validating
I can't get passed the words he used with her. They were really over the line IMHO. "waste of skin" along with the non-threat of divorce? You're not good enough to divorce? What does that even mean?
OP - were the first debts yours from before you got married that you just didn't talk about? I don't think SL's are shameful at all. If your H asked you and you hid it - that is bad but not really uncommon.
As for the $8000 - was this all "fun" money stuff or stuff for the household? Is it possible that OP and her H's division of money/bills is unbalanced.
I just feel like his reaction was way beyond what is reasonable even considering the circumstances.
It would be one thing if she bought one thing and hid it. Ecause she felt guilty. That's not ok, but Ivan understand how that happens. Then the lie just spirals. But she racked up debt over several years...multiple times. It's not one mistake she hid....she kept choosing to make the same mistake over an over and hid it from her h.....and it has happened before.
I hope she gets help, but I don't think we can project our own issues on her situation either. Just because some have had anxiety issues with not wanting to disappoint people ( which I can relate to) doesn't make this less bad.
I think thenop gets that she needs help, through, and I hope she gets it. I hope they get help as a couple as well.
The student loan debt was for my masters. I was embarassed that I had to take it out to do it. I never told him about it. I do have a masters degree to show for it.
Thank you for all the advice. I have a lot to work on and I will do what ever it takes to make it work for my family. I have a call into a counselor for my own issues. It is up to him whether he wants to go for us as well. I can't change what I have already done but I can change what I do going forward.
There is no excuse what I've done. We have some time apart due to work over the next couple of days. I plan to get some stuff in order. I want to be ready to talk when he gets home and tells me he is ready.
Our kids are with his mom. He left the house and we have texted back and forth but for the most part he is taking some time to think.