Sorry-SIL responded. Now what?

3.27.04_Helper · March 2012

Sibil:
MisfitMe:
Sibil:

Exactly. It's spread by breathing. No shared airspace for grandma.

I totally get not living in fear of potential exposure. This particular situation moves it beyond random potential and puts it into an entirely different category. It goes beyond what an average adult would be exposed to. Sure, any hypothetical adult in a community could be a carrier, but an unvaccinated child in a school with an outbreak is many many times more likely to be a carrier. The relative risks aren't the same.

Ok this is true and good points.

I just think it depends. I mean, cases in the school of say, 3000 kids, we're they in the same grade as her sils? Same class? Shared areas at least? I went to a k-8 school and I was only ever in contact with my grade for most, with common areas like the cafe for a couple grades but those were cleaned between meals. The op herself said she works with someone who has a kid who was In contact with wc, how is that not the same as the sisters kids who might not even have a shared area?

From what I understand, just the fact that the kids cycle through the same hallways and classrooms is enough exposure. Wiping down the tables probably isn't good enough, either. This stuff is virulent.
Is the OP inviting the unvaccinated coworker's kid?

Very virulent.... I still can't believe I got it.

ringstrue · March 2012

If they are the only kids at that school who are coming to your party, I'd try my best to uninvite them.

If WC is in your community and lots of people coming to your party are in the community, and if even vaxxed people can be carriers - I dunno, I think I'd reconsider the party all together. You can't blame the un-vaxxed kids for every possible party scenario that would wind your kids or others up with WC.

hawaii123 · March 2012

I don't know how long they have been out for spring break-I would assume today is the first day since my CW's kid was in school M-Tu. I think the thing that irritates me the most is that if she chooses not to vaccinate, fine-own it and deal with it. But don't lie to me and tell me that they don't give vaccines to kids >2 or that your kids were out all week because you don't think I know any better and think you are more informed. She also said she hasn't heard anything about it at her kids school-maybe they were out sick? (((bangs head on wall))) As far as exposure, my G-ma lives in a small town about 3 hrs from us-so her exposure is minimal (she doesn't go out much)-I don't know if she has gotten any boosters though. And I don't know what we're going to do yet-we're going to see them the next weekend too.

ringstrue · March 2012

Maybe just watch the local news for updates and see if there is any info on the school website. Sometimes there are scares that don't go anywhere (cuz people address them) so it could help to keep up on it over the next few days and see if the concern is changing at all.

LaPiscine · March 2012

+adamwife+:
Are you not allowing the other adults that aren't up-to-date on their vaccines into your house also?

I would hate to be in your position. I cannot imagine making my husband be the bad guy and cause a family war with his sibling.

I'm assuming that the adults who aren't up to date haven't also been attending a school where there's been an outbreak. THAT is the key issue here. There's been an outbreak; there's a high likelihood that her SIL's kids have been exposed to it and if they have been exposed to it, there's a high likelihood that they HAVE it because of how contagious it is and how NOT VACCINATED the kids are.

This isn't about OP making her husband be the bad guy. SIL is being incredibly selfish and dumb potentially exposing other children and the elderly to a deadly disease. It's not different than cancelling a play date when your LO has been up all night throwing up. You cancel because you could get someone else sick. OP shouldn't even have to ask. If you've decided to make the decision not to vax your kid, there is other behavior that should come with that, like a heightened awareness of whether your kids have been exposed to those disease. She shouldn't have to ask SIL to stay home, SIL should have politely declined the invite because she doesn't want to get anyone else's kids sick while hers are busy building their "natural immunity."

For me, that's where this breaks down. This is only a difficult situation because SIL isn't doing the right thing by voluntarily staying home.

hawaii123 · March 2012

mcgee:
I responded in your other thread before I read this, and I'm too lazy to retype it.

I don't dislike my SIL-this is just one thing we disagree on. And as far as other people at the party from their area, there are no others. Everyone else, including us, live an hour or more from SIL

LaPiscine · March 2012

Sibil:
MisfitMe:
Sibil:

Exactly. It's spread by breathing. No shared airspace for grandma.
I totally get not living in fear of potential exposure. This particular situation moves it beyond random potential and puts it into an entirely different category. It goes beyond what an average adult would be exposed to. Sure, any hypothetical adult in a community could be a carrier, but an unvaccinated child in a school with an outbreak is many many times more likely to be a carrier. The relative risks aren't the same.
Ok this is true and good points.
I just think it depends. I mean, cases in the school of say, 3000 kids, we're they in the same grade as her sils? Same class? Shared areas at least? I went to a k-8 school and I was only ever in contact with my grade for most, with common areas like the cafe for a couple grades but those were cleaned between meals. The op herself said she works with someone who has a kid who was In contact with wc, how is that not the same as the sisters kids who might not even have a shared area?
From what I understand, just the fact that the kids cycle through the same hallways and classrooms is enough exposure. Wiping down the tables probably isn't good enough, either. This stuff is virulent.
Is the OP inviting the unvaccinated coworker's kid?

The co-workers kid wasn't unvaccinated (IIRC). That's just how OP got the info that there was an outbreak at SIL's school. And I believe OP also noted that we're not just talking about shared hallways, we're talking about a shared locker room because both the original sick kid and the SIL's kids are on sports teams.

MisfitMe · March 2012

I thought the coworkers kid was in the shared locker room, not the sil kids?

cookiemdough · March 2012

LaPiscine:
+adamwife+:

Are you not allowing the other adults that aren't up-to-date on their vaccines into your house also?

I would hate to be in your position. I cannot imagine making my husband be the bad guy and cause a family war with his sibling.

I'm assuming that the adults who aren't up to date haven't also been attending a school where there's been an outbreak. THAT is the key issue here. There's been an outbreak; there's a high likelihood that her SIL's kids have been exposed to it and if they have been exposed to it, there's a high likelihood that they HAVE it because of how contagious it is and how NOT VACCINATED the kids are.

This isn't about OP making her husband be the bad guy. SIL is being incredibly selfish and dumb potentially exposing other children and the elderly to a deadly disease. It's not different than cancelling a play date when your LO has been up all night throwing up. You cancel because you could get someone else sick. OP shouldn't even have to ask. If you've decided to make the decision not to vax your kid, there is other behavior that should come with that, like a heightened awareness of whether your kids have been exposed to those disease. She shouldn't have to ask SIL to stay home, SIL should have politely declined the invite because she doesn't want to get anyone else's kids sick while hers are busy building their "natural immunity."

For me, that's where this breaks down. This is only a difficult situation because SIL isn't doing the right thing by voluntarily staying home.

all of this

Sibil · March 2012

LaPiscine:
The co-workers kid wasn't unvaccinated (IIRC). That's just how OP got the info that there was an outbreak at SIL's school. And I believe OP also noted that we're not just talking about shared hallways, we're talking about a shared locker room because both the original sick kid and the SIL's kids are on sports teams.

Sorry, that wasn't clear. I was trying to point out that the coworker's kid is neither unvaccinated nor invited, so that was completely irrelevant. I've been up since 430 for no good reason, and it apparently is showing.

MrsAJL · March 2012

hawaii123:
She responded that kids don't get vaccinated for that after age 2. In other words she thinks we're stupid. Her kids have not been vaccinated for WC. But then she says her kids have been on Spring break this week (?) so they haven't been around other kids anyway. Wwyd?

Probably invite them, honestly.

The reports are that there a some students at the school her kids go to that have pertussis. Her kids aren't vaxxed. It looks like it's been established that they could be carriers, but so could anyone else that comes to the party. Adults and older children are the most common spreaders of pertussis.

I think there is a lot of hysteria going on in this post. If you don't want her to come, then tell her you don't. Tell her the truth about why you don't want her to come and then take whatever lumps come with it.

The likelihood that her kids ARE infected with pertussis and will infect others are the party isn't strong. They have no symptoms. They are not currently sick or showing signs of sickness. Neither are probably most of your guests, but by the logic in this thread, they could also be carriers.

If you don't want to invite her because you don't agree with her parenting practices of not vaxxing her kids, then do so. I don't think there is enough evidence to not invite her because of a some cases of pertussis at her kids' school.

Coworker's kid's sports team member with pertussis is irrelevant.

LaPiscine · March 2012

Sibil:
LaPiscine:
The co-workers kid wasn't unvaccinated (IIRC). That's just how OP got the info that there was an outbreak at SIL's school. And I believe OP also noted that we're not just talking about shared hallways, we're talking about a shared locker room because both the original sick kid and the SIL's kids are on sports teams.

Sorry, that wasn't clear. I was trying to point out that the coworker's kid is neither unvaccinated nor invited, so that was completely irrelevant. I've been up since 430 for no good reason, and it apparently is showing.

Ha! Well, I'm having a hard time following all the details of this thing, too, so there IS that.

pixy_stix · March 2012

MrsAJL:
The likelihood that her kids ARE infected with pertussis and will infect others are the party isn't strong. They have no symptoms. They are not currently sick or showing signs of sickness. Neither are probably most of your guests, but by the logic in this thread, they could also be carriers.

Please read one more time - the children have been directly exposed to whooping cough. It can be transmitted before you show any symptoms. Again, directly exposed to *known* cases of WC. Not random people who may or may not have been exposed. She's dealing with a known entity here.

caden · March 2012

Sorry I haven't read all the responses yet but my kids were exposed to WC when they were around 1 yr old (I think that was the age). My Pedi said b/c they were up to date on their vaccines that it was extremely unlikely that they'd get it. And they didn't, they were fine. I'm not sure how old your child is, but if he is current on his shots I would just suck it up and risk it. It's tough I know, but I think the risk to you is small, so long as your son is vaxed. Your SIL's kids on the other hand are just begging for it.

MisfitMe · March 2012

pixy_stix:
MrsAJL:
The likelihood that her kids ARE infected with pertussis and will infect others are the party isn't strong. They have no symptoms. They are not currently sick or showing signs of sickness. Neither are probably most of your guests, but by the logic in this thread, they could also be carriers.
Please read one more time - the children have been directly exposed to whooping cough. It can be transmitted before you show any symptoms. Again, directly exposed to *known* cases of WC. Not random people who may or may not have been exposed. She's dealing with a known entity here.

I must've missed that they've been directly exposed, is that in the other thread?

MrsAJL · March 2012

pixy_stix:
MrsAJL:
The likelihood that her kids ARE infected with pertussis and will infect others are the party isn't strong. They have no symptoms. They are not currently sick or showing signs of sickness. Neither are probably most of your guests, but by the logic in this thread, they could also be carriers.
Please read one more time - the children have been directly exposed to whooping cough. It can be transmitted before you show any symptoms. Again, directly exposed to *known* cases of WC. Not random people who may or may not have been exposed. She's dealing with a known entity here.

The post did not say that. It said, "CW told me that on Monday, all the kids got sent home with letters from the school saying that there have been reported cases of whooping cough..."

Cases have been reported. We don't know who the cases are. We don't know what in what grades. We don't know when or at what point during the infection. There is not enough information provided from a tertiary source to determine a direct exposure.

All the information that was provided is that there are reported cases of whooping cough.

mysticporter · March 2012

First, I would ask your CW if they really are on spring break this week. If not, your SIL is a liar, and she may also lie about if the kids have symptoms. That would push me immediately into not inviting her.

LaPiscine · March 2012

MrsAJL:
pixy_stix:
MrsAJL:
The likelihood that her kids ARE infected with pertussis and will infect others are the party isn't strong. They have no symptoms. They are not currently sick or showing signs of sickness. Neither are probably most of your guests, but by the logic in this thread, they could also be carriers.
Please read one more time - the children have been directly exposed to whooping cough. It can be transmitted before you show any symptoms. Again, directly exposed to *known* cases of WC. Not random people who may or may not have been exposed. She's dealing with a known entity here.
The post did not say that. It said, "CW told me that on Monday, all the kids got sent home with letters from the school saying that there have been reported cases of whooping cough..."
Cases have been reported. We don't know who the cases are. We don't know what in what grades. We don't know when or at what point during the infection. There is not enough information provided from a tertiary source to determine a direct exposure.
All the information that was provided is that there are reported cases of whooping cough.

We also know that the SIL's kid shares a locker room with one of the kids who was known to be infected. For me, that's kind of a critical detail considering how contagious WC is. It's not just "Yeah some kids at the same school..." Now we know it's kids who are sharing close, damp, dirty rarely, sanitized space, probably frequented at roughly the same time as each other if not actually in there together. Unless grade schools have gotten fancier than when I went to them and each team has its own locker room now.

mysticporter · March 2012

hawaii123:
I don't know how long they have been out for spring break-I would assume today is the first day since my CW's kid was in school M-Tu. I think the thing that irritates me the most is that if she chooses not to vaccinate, fine-own it and deal with it. But don't lie to me and tell me that they don't give vaccines to kids >2 or that your kids were out all week because you don't think I know any better and think you are more informed. She also said she hasn't heard anything about it at her kids school-maybe they were out sick? (((bangs head on wall))) As far as exposure, my G-ma lives in a small town about 3 hrs from us-so her exposure is minimal (she doesn't go out much)-I don't know if she has gotten any boosters though. And I don't know what we're going to do yet-we're going to see them the next weekend too.

Wait, what? She *said* they are/have been recently ill?

hawaii123 · March 2012

mysticporter:
hawaii123:
I don't know how long they have been out for spring break-I would assume today is the first day since my CW's kid was in school M-Tu. I think the thing that irritates me the most is that if she chooses not to vaccinate, fine-own it and deal with it. But don't lie to me and tell me that they don't give vaccines to kids >2 or that your kids were out all week because you don't think I know any better and think you are more informed. She also said she hasn't heard anything about it at her kids school-maybe they were out sick? (((bangs head on wall))) As far as exposure, my G-ma lives in a small town about 3 hrs from us-so her exposure is minimal (she doesn't go out much)-I don't know if she has gotten any boosters though. And I don't know what we're going to do yet-we're going to see them the next weekend too.
Wait, what? She *said* they are/have been recently ill?

No no-It was tongue and cheek because I can't figure out why Sil's kids have been out on spring break supposedly, but their school only started being off today. The letters were sent home on Mon and Tues and she claims to know nothing about it

MisfitMe · March 2012

Is it possible she doesn't? Maybe they only sent it out to that grade? Eta, might be going a bit far, but have you thought to call the school?

I might be reading wrong, but it seems like you don't really like her anyway. If you don't and don't care, just tell her your not comfortable with her coming, no?

laurenpetro · March 2012

LaPiscine:

We also know that the SIL's kid shares a locker room with one of the kids who was known to be infected. For me, that's kind of a critical detail considering how contagious WC is. It's not just "Yeah some kids at the same school..." Now we know it's kids who are sharing close, damp, dirty rarely, sanitized space, probably frequented at roughly the same time as each other if not actually in there together. Unless grade schools have gotten fancier than when I went to them and each team has its own locker room now.

from what i read in the OOP, it's the CW's child that shares the locker room, not necessarily the SIL's kids.

laurenpetro · March 2012

MisfitMe:

Is it possible she doesn't? Maybe they only sent it out to that grade? Eta, might be going a bit far, but have you thought to call the school?

I might be reading wrong, but it seems like you don't really like her anyway. If you don't and don't care, just tell her your not comfortable with her coming, no?

we had a whooping cough outbreak in our school system. it was only reported in the high school. i got a letter even though DD is in 1st grade and my sister got a letter even though her kids are in the catholic school.

edited for spelling.

mysticporter · March 2012

hawaii123:
mysticporter:
hawaii123:
I don't know how long they have been out for spring break-I would assume today is the first day since my CW's kid was in school M-Tu. I think the thing that irritates me the most is that if she chooses not to vaccinate, fine-own it and deal with it. But don't lie to me and tell me that they don't give vaccines to kids >2 or that your kids were out all week because you don't think I know any better and think you are more informed. She also said she hasn't heard anything about it at her kids school-maybe they were out sick? (((bangs head on wall))) As far as exposure, my G-ma lives in a small town about 3 hrs from us-so her exposure is minimal (she doesn't go out much)-I don't know if she has gotten any boosters though. And I don't know what we're going to do yet-we're going to see them the next weekend too.
Wait, what? She *said* they are/have been recently ill?
No no-It was tongue and cheek because I can't figure out why Sil's kids have been out on spring break supposedly, but their school only started being off today. The letters were sent home on Mon and Tues and she claims to know nothing about it

Gotcha. IDK, it could be entirely innocent and somehow she doesn't know, but you and your DH know her. If you think she's not being honest about her kids not getting the letter and/or saying they weren't in school when they were, that would bother me more than anything, because I wouldn't trust her to not bring the kids if they were showing signs of illness that day.

LaPiscine · March 2012

laurenpetro:
LaPiscine:

We also know that the SIL's kid shares a locker room with one of the kids who was known to be infected. For me, that's kind of a critical detail considering how contagious WC is. It's not just "Yeah some kids at the same school..." Now we know it's kids who are sharing close, damp, dirty rarely, sanitized space, probably frequented at roughly the same time as each other if not actually in there together. Unless grade schools have gotten fancier than when I went to them and each team has its own locker room now.

from what i read in the OOP, it's the CW's child that shares the locker room, not necessarily the SIL's kids.

All three of them are in the locker room. Or that's how I'm reading this from the other thread:

CW's son got a separate letter from his sports team that said a kid on the team had it (nephew plays a different sport but would have used the same locker room)

Knitty · March 2012

She just got herself uninvited. The schedule has a booster at 4 or 5, and there is a pertussis vax for adults, too.

MrsAJL · March 2012

LaPiscine:
All three of them are in the locker room. Or that's how I'm reading this from the other thread:

CW's son got a separate letter from his sports team that said a kid on the team had it (nephew plays a different sport but would have used the same locker room)

Ahh! I didn't read that clearly. Yeah, I'm on Team Uninvited.

emisi · March 2012

I'm on team uninvited. Your SIL made the choice not to vax her kids and depend on herd immunity - obviously, it was a poor choice. You don't want to risk vulnerable people getting WC, so it's SIL's own fault for her anti-vax paranoia. It's the price she has to pay for that.