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'God Prefers Kind Atheists Over Hateful Christians'
A controversial sign was placed outside Rose City Park United Methodist Church in Portland, Ore., last week reading "God Prefers Kind Atheists Over Hateful Christians," and has attracted a variety of responses to the pastor's message.
The Rev. Tom Tate of Rose City Park UMC decided to put up what he calls a "non-churchy" message, the United Methodist Portal reported, and which he hoped would offer passersby a different view of atheist-Christian relations. The sign has garnered attention at a viral pace, thanks to a posting on the church's Facebook page, in which the photo appeared under the heading "This is how WE roll...how do you?"
The Rev. Tate commented on the sign the following day, writing on Facebook, "What's all the fuss about? That God prefers kindness over hate? I would think that's a given. Isn't that the meaning of one of the most often quoted parables: the Good Samaritan? As far as Jesus' crowd was concerned Samaritans were atheists. What was Jesus meaning? Did the Samaritan convert to the 'right beliefs.' Not according to the story. As a matter of fact, it was the teachers of law, those with 'right beliefs' who didn't get it; who 'passed by.'"
"As an atheist, I strongly appreciate this sentiment from you guys, but I am still an atheist. I am glad, though, that you acknowledge that there are a LOT of hateful Christians out there. Thank you Rose City Park United. I would expect nothing less from a Portland church but tolerance," wrote Valerie Kolm.
However, others were unsure of who exactly the Rose City Park church, a 385-member congregation, might have been referencing with "hateful Christians."
"Are people that have 'tradition' in their heart, and 'personal' responsibility in their mind, hateful? I'm unsure of what your definition of a 'hateful' Christian is?" asked Steve Jansen.
Re: 'God Prefers Kind Atheists Over Hateful Christians'
In Matthew 7:21 Jesus says that not everyone who professes belief in Him will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those that do the will of His Father (to love others and love God) will.
A hateful Christian is an oxymoron. Unless of course you're talking about people who simply label themselves as a Christian but don't really believe or aren't filled with the Love of God. Calling yourself a Christian and actually being a Christian are two things. Earlier in Matthew 7 Jesus says that you can tell the difference by their fruit - a true Christian will be full of love and goodness. A false Christian will be full of hate.
As far as it being better to be an athiest than a false Christian, I agree. The Bible supports this idea. Revelation 3:16 says it's better to be cold (without faith) than to be lukewarm (with "faith" but not living it out). God says He will chew up the lukewarm and spit them out of His mouth.
But I think it's dangerous for this Rev. Tate to say that God prefers kindness over hate, period. That's not all the story. I think that God is going to punish the athiest in the same manner that He will the false Christian. That's how it was with the Samaritans. Jesus called them dogs and other offensive names. Sure there were some good people living with the dogs, but it was only the ones with faith in Him (like the Samaritan woman at the well) that will be allowed in His Father's Kingdom.
The parable of the good Samaritan is simply saying that religious knowledge isn't what is important. It's the way you live out your faith that counts. It's not saying that atheism is OK in God's eyes IMO.
And being one of the few that your tiny spiteful god chooses to love, right?
Who "me?"
I fixed it for you. Now it's right.
I should have anticipated that. You have no problem putting words in god's mouth, why not a lowly human's too?
Who "me?"
Yes, I just don't think it's applicable here because Scripture supports my claims.
(Just my opinion)
Eh, I appreciate the sentiment, but personally I'm a "The world is better off with kind people rather than hateful people" of a type of mentality. Then again I'm an atheist who goes to a UU church, so there you go. Sadly, I think the sentiment is lost on the hateful Christians because they don't realize they're being hateful, they think they're being righteous.
Edit: And further, "hateful" is subjective. I'm sure Christians who believe that gays will go to hell or bring the end of days or whatever fully believe they're doing the kinder thing trying to "save" the gays, etc... even if I personally think it's completely backwards and harmful. Society as a whole shapes a rough system of ethics and community morals but there's still a LOT of grey area. I just draw the line at forcing your religion on others (i.e. hate gay people all you want, it doesn't give you the right to deny their rights as human beings).
No. I have no problem reading the Word that came from God and interpreting it for myself, just as most people do. I'd love to hear what words you feel I have put in God's (capital G) mouth. Everyone of faith has their own interpretation of God's Word and what I do is no different from them.
But, yeah, pot meet kettle, since you've put words in mine too.
So untrue though. If you read the bible it's all about form over action. You get into heaven by accepting Jesus as god, and that is IT. No good works, nothing like that matters. Christianity is not about being a good person.
And, in fact, denying the holy spirit is utterly unforgivable, so all of this prosetylising they do is pointless, because if you have ever refused to believe in it, you're doomed. No amount of sucking up can ever ever ever get you into heaven. Of course, admitting that up front would be bad for the collection plate, so they don't advertise it. But it's in there.
I'm sorry, I was just kidding. I didn't mean to offend anyone or come off as being idiotic.
Anything you can achieve through hard work, you could also just buy.
i think that is a fair statement.
i would rather surround myself with kind people, i believe god will too.
Why? What do you need that you find at church?
I don't believe this is true. Faith without action is dead. Good works are a result of true faith, since one is reborn when they become a true believer.
James 2:14-26 talks about the difference between faith with and without action.
Click me, click me!
I have a hard time believing that God loves us all as His precious children but would condemn perfectly good people to hell for exercising the free will He gave them. That's like giving your child up for adoption and pretending they never existed at all l because they get bratty and yell at you "I bet you're not even my real dad!". Children are defiant and stupid, so if we're God's children, it stands to reason we can be pretty defiant and stupid. It comes across as really crappy on God's part that instead of "parenting", He would just give up on us.
Some people don't have to try to believe, they just do- the same is for people who don't believe.. some people just don't or can't. There's very little "choice" in it.
I fall into the latter category and used to worry about it a lot. What if there is an afterlife? What if I am missing something profound and important? And then I got more comfortable- if God is so awesome and all-loving that I should want to be with Him (if he exists) when I die, He'll forgive me my atheism I think, and judge me by my actions and thoughts and my life. If He's not actually all-loving and would condemn me to hell for something I really had no choice in without considering anything else at all, well, I don't really want to be around that huge of an A-hole.
My Catholic H pretty much believes the same, though I realize this sounds pretty sacrilegious, lol.
I don't disagree. I tend to take someone's word for it, since I don't know what they truly believe. If you say you're a Christian, I believe you.
I was just saying that Jesus told us that there are a lot of people out there that are labeling themselves as a Christian that He will turn His back on in Heaven because of their lukewarm faith.
Stop putting words in God's mouth, HAB. Geesh.
This is why I have a problem with "rewards and punishment in the afterlife" based religions. No real accountability.
Anything you can achieve through hard work, you could also just buy.
Lots of stuff: *sorry in advance for the novel*
Unitarians talk a lot about a lot of different faiths and belief systems, so I think of it as a never-ending spiritual/religious education.
It's a time taken out of my week for a structured period of reflection- on myself and my life, but also the world around me, the future, society, etc... as well as potential things and messages I hadn't considered before.
It's a community of similarly thoughtful people, so if I need support, be it mental/emotional, or I need help with something else, I have a whole group of people who are willing to step up.
I don't have children but when I do, it's important to me that they have some guidance about religion, spirituality, and all that stuff. We live in a pretty complicated world re: religion, and I don't think it's entirely fair for me to just raise them atheist and not let them explore and experience and really make a decision for themselves. I've felt a lot of angst over being atheist and I'd rather my kids come into religion or non-religion of their own choices and will and not my influence.
Finally, there's a lot of humanist/social work that's done through the church. My church teams up with lots of other groups both secular and religious to do charitable works and projects throughout the year. I don't have a lot of money to donate but I like having easy access to a means to donate my time and love and give back to my local community as a whole.
You can say whatever you want, but I don't feel it's that black and white. What does anti-gay mean to you?
I am an agnostic who attends a UU church and this sums up exactly the reasons I go. I actually started going after reading about the UU church on this board.
I agree you'd have to define what a person means if they say they're anti-gay. Are they anti-gay-people, as in they avoid them and judge them? In that case, Mr. Christian is screwed because he took on God's job of judging that person because of their sin in spite of their own blanket of sin. If, on the other hand, Mr. Christian is anti-sodomy, as in they don't agree with it and see it as a sin, but can still accept that person with love knowing they themselves are no better nor worse than a gay person, I'd say that person is being more Christ-like or Christian.
I have more to say, but South Park is on. Put that in your holy pipe and smoke it.
Actually, in most churches I've ever been to, "love the sinner, not the sin" is applied to sin across the board.
I think DP expressed how I feel about it - someone can be genuinely loving despite disagreeing with certain behavior. I think it depends on whether or not you recognize that your sin is the same and because of that are no better than them.
And you don't feel at all belittled or scorned if I tell you that I love you, but your faith is repulsive, reprehensible and disgusting, and that every time I see one of those smarmy unintentionally funny sigs of yours I pity that you were born without the ability for critical thought, and blame you for the revolting crimes against humanity your kind has commited throughtout history? But I love you.