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Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
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Re: 'God Prefers Kind Atheists Over Hateful Christians'
@Sibil, nope, that totally makes sense.
Frankly, in that conversation, I'd want to delve into my friend's "state of gay" as it were and for utter lack of a better way to put it. So being gay is how you were born, right? How do you know? Do you believe you were born gay? Is it genetic? You have no choice about your sexual preference? I'd want to hear about this; it's obviously a hugely important part of my friend's life, one they find to define who and what they are, so I'd want to understand.
I'd ask for the same courtesy, I suppose, in exchange. Why do I believe in God in the first place, let alone one who apparently dictates that a gay person is automatically a sinful person? If being gay is indeed a sin, but it's something I believe is in my genetic code, what does that mean? -- And to that question, I'd say truthfully I really don't know. I don't. I can guess, or I can interpret, but GOD knows and I don't. What I DO know is my life and sins (oh sweet LAWD, the sins I have engaged in) and God's compassion and mercy toward me for those. And my guess would be that if God has enough mercy and compassion to meet me where I have been, He most certainly has the reach to be at the place where my gay friend is - whenever he might want to check Him out or not.
That was incredibly wordy, but there you go.
There's disagreeing, and there's thinking that they're going to hell and pitying them for it. IMO, thinking someone is going to burn for eternity is a pretty hateful thought.
I disagree with Reeve, but I don't think he's going to go to hell because he's wrong. He's going to go to whatever he thinks the afterlife is, or not if he doesn't believe in an afterlife.
I think I've known too many gay conservative Christians, and I see how much pain they've experienced at the hands of even fairly kind conversations, like you're talking about, to see it as anything but hateful, despite intent.
I've known people who've been to ex-gay programs. I've met one of the women who started an ex-ex gay movement. My roommate was an ex-gay who was married to a woman for 12 years. He internalized the "gay is a sin" so much that when he had a crush on a guy who was then killed with his wife in a car wreck, he saw it as a sign from god to punish him for returning to that sin.
Divorce is a one time sin. It may happen again, but you'll do your best to prevent it. I don't see sexuality as anywhere near the same thing. It's not a one time, and there's no preventing, fixing, or working on it. It's who you are, not what you do.
Then you either didn't read or refuse to understand what it is I wrote. So I guess that's all there is.
Click me, click me!
I dunno, its hard for me to really get the offense at being told you're going to Hell, thing, especially if you don't really believe in Hell or that most people (or anyone) would go there if you do believe in it.
I mean, it's like if a person went up to you and asked if you believed that a sentient cup of Coffee farted out the universe 20 years ago, and when you respond no, they tell you, well, because of that, a unicorn will seek you out at the end of your life and shii!t fire in your face as punishment... that's just the facts! Would you actually be offended at that and hurt that they believe a unicorn is going to flame your face with their butt, or are you going to brush it off because the whole thing is just preposterous or even hilarious to you?
I'd smile if I saw it. And moreso if I saw it a lot.
As I posted at the start, I appreciate the sentiment because I think the world in general is better off with more kind people and less hateful people, regardless of religion or anything else. That being said- hateful can be very subjective, and the people its targeted to aren't really going to consider themself hateful, are they? So it's almost.. pointless. If a person truly believes that you can act on homosexual urges and then spend an eternity suffering in hell, or you can repress them and then spend an eternity joyously in heaven, they're not going to view their attitudes and doctrine towards homosexuality as hateful, but rather as the kinder, better stance to take- better to suffer a little in this world and live forever in heaven then sin in this world and suffer forever in hell, sort of thing. Whether you agree with that or not, it's hard to say that that attitude is "hateful", when really it's just a different perspective for better or worse. People who are a lot more... objectively... hateful- people who would like to see gay people murdered, etc are not going to get or care about the message of the sign.
At first blush, my reaction was to not care, bordering on eye-rolly. Then I thought about it more and it feels more negative to me. Basically they're saying, "hey, you may have thought that being an atheist is the single worst thing in the universe, but being a hateful Christian means you're the scum on the bottom of the atheist's shoe!" Does that make sense?
So, no--I don't find it a particularly positive message, regardless of where you fall on the belief scale.
Since there are so many people from every religion, not just Christianity, that think my lack of faith means I can't be a good, decent person, I appreciate the sentiment, that I actually can be kind, decent, and caring. I can be good.
It really really annoys me that people think agnostics and atheists think that either they themselves or the gov't or some other entity is God. Religious people seem to think, "Well, if you don't believe in God than you must be putting some other entity or yourself in His place." No, the whole thought structure is different. Most non-religious people that I know think we are all here on this planet and we need to take care of it and be good to it because there is no place after this, there is no next life, and there is no afterlife, so make the most of what you have. We definitely sit and contemplate with wonder how huge and beautiful and magical the universe is and how small we are in it. We think about how to be good parents, and teachers and citizens and how to make things better for the next generation. Just because I don't believe in God myself doesn't mean I pat myself on the back all day, nor does it automatically mean that I have animosity towards religion in general. I only have animosity when religious people get all judgey.
Re: "hate the sin, love the sinner"
I guess if that is impossible then God really hates all of us.
Heh Adamwife. Welcome. According to DB, you put words in God's mouth while I hang from the Cross. Together we make an awesome team! ;-)
Are atheists, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc equally lacking because they don't follow Christ, or are atheists lacking more because they don't believe in God while the others are "misguided"?
I've always wanted to know that. I've been under the impression that atheists are the worst because they lack faith, even if their behaviors are MLK, Gandhi and Mother Theresa rolled in one. Is that true?
I find this argument incredibly annoying as well because it is intellectually lazy.
Knutty - As long as you love me, I guess that's all that matters. I forgive you for your intolerance.
And also, as far as my siggy's make you roll your eyes and think I lack critical thinking skills - I've been wanting to say it for a while. I can't for the life of me figure out why you have a picture of two real people (one of which posts on these boards) as your avatar. Everytime I see it I roll my eyes and think about how obsessed you must be with selfie to put a picture of her (in a bikini) in a place that you can see every time you post. Strange.
But I love you even though you're a stalker.
Sibil - Just for the record, I am not anti-gay marriage. I know your thoughts weren't directed completely at me, but I just wanted to clear that up.
We should form some kind of travelling show.
We can tap dance and talk about hating people and being victims.
I like it. It makes no claims on the general state of atheism or Christianity or the afterlife, so I'm not going to project something there that's not. All it's saying is that here and now it's better to be a good person than a hateful person, no matter what creed you profess to believe in. I agree with that wholeheartedly, and it makes me smile that there are others who agree with me (particularly a theist).
I find "well, if you're hateful, you're not really a Christian!" to be a weak cop-out. "If you're hateful, you're not a good Christian", I agree with, but the idea of bogarting the word "Christian" and excluding anyone who doesn't fit your description is as ridiculous as the claims on the word "marriage". You can define what it means to you, but you don't own the word.
*resident Atheist checking in*
I think its a cool sign. I always like churches that have catchy signs, even though most of them around here are rather inflammatory. Just makes you laugh
This is me too.
I feel like I see eye to eye with almost all of DPs commentaries on faith from this board.
AW - I'm also wondering about no hateful Christians. I don't believe that. I still believe that we are flesh and blood of the earth, and born into sin. It doesn't just vanish and all of our hate and just goes out the window. It means, we're still going to screw up, we repent and are forgiven. We wouldn't need the conviction of the Holy Spirit if we didn't have sin/hate in our lives.
Your strength and relationship with God can go deeper the more that you focus on the love and His will over your own, but again, we fall short of that. So, even if you ascribe to the faith and believe Christ is the savior, you can still be a hateful son of a gun. You just need more work on yourself.
Zuma Zoom
I am kind of meh on the sign. I mean since I don't believe in god, I don't really care that a random church thinks that god likes nice atheists over certain christians. But on a different note, the sign kind of smacks of arrogance, I guess.
DD #1 passed away in January 2011 at 14 days old due to congenital heart disease
DD#2 lost in January 2012 at 23 weeks due to anhydramnios caused by a placental abruption
The Bible says, however, that you shall know people by their fruits. It also says that God is love. If you're full of hatred and nastiness, then how can God be in you and therefore, how can you be a Christian?
I'm not saying you have to be perfect and loving and cheerful 24/7 or you aren't a Christian but if people meet you, talk to you, interact with you and all they see is your hatefulness and bitterness, you have a serious problem.
Click me, click me!
I really don't believe there is a scale. I don't think He rates one over the other. So yeah, I guess I think it's all equal.
Click me, click me!
My sentiments on people of other beliefs or no belief is that it is their choice. I would love for people to find the joy and comfort I have with my faith, sharing the same faith. If they're finding that with something else, I'm happy that they've found love and joy. I respect their choice.
Being Christian is a personal decision. I can not force it on anyone. With that in mind, people can believe what they choose. Even God can't force you to believe in him.
I might even sound awful, but I can see where knitty is coming from with her response to AW. It did seem a bit bitter, but I can also understand that.
Zuma Zoom
can i ask why it's necessary to tell people they're full of sin? and specifically call out groups of people to point this out?
here's an idea: if someone asks you anything about your religious beliefs tell them, "well, that's personal. how was your day?" and end it at that.
telling people "i love you but the bible tells me you're a sinner so i hate what you do" only accomplishes one thing: making someone feel like crap. unless this is your intent then i suggest keeping your mouth shut and moving on.
and this goes for christianity at large. inside your church = preach all you want. outside your church = stop giving unsolicited opinions on the afterlife.