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I need job advice. Calling the PCE brain trust

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Re: I need job advice. Calling the PCE brain trust

  • image5thOfJuly:
    imagecookiemdough:

    Mommies vs Childless by choice in 3....2....1....

    Nope. Childless by choice and 100% Team Missusbee here. She's asking for totally reasonable accomodations and is getting systemative and pervasive gendered  harassment in return.

    Ditto. The videoconferencing thing is the kicker for me. I'm so sorry, missusbee. :(

  • imagemissusbee:

    I'm just not certain on what grounds I would be able to lawyer up, though. The vast majority of the inappropriate behavior has been in the form of verbal comments, which I can't document. 

    It sounds like my employer doesn't have any legal responsibility to offer me accommodations to breastfeed, particularly the travel part. So if I refused to, and they fired me, it would be legit.

    As for not getting a review and raise, even though I've asked for the review, I'm sure they could just say they were behind and hadn't gotten to it yet. 

    Bossman is a jerk, for sure, but I'm not convinced he's done anything illegal? 

    That's what you need a lawyer for - to tell you if you even have any legal options.  Lawyers will typically either give you a free consult, or sometimes they'll charge a small consult fee (like $200).  It's worth it to at least talk to someone. 
    image
    Anything you can achieve through hard work, you could also just buy.
  • There are limits to how much they need to accommodate you, even for breastfeeding.  Especially if travel is an integral part of your job.  I think you're pushing it w/r/t the travel request.

    I would suggest pumping like a mo fo and storing extra as needed.  You could probably pick up a portable cooler for storing anything you pump on the road.

    Seriously, people. If your faith in humanity is destroyed because your parents told you there was a Santa Claus and as it turns out there is no Santa Claus, you are an ignorant, hypersensitive cry baby with absolutely zero perspective. - UnderwaterRhymes
  • imageMrsAxilla:
    imagemissusbee:

    I'm just not certain on what grounds I would be able to lawyer up, though. The vast majority of the inappropriate behavior has been in the form of verbal comments, which I can't document. 

    It sounds like my employer doesn't have any legal responsibility to offer me accommodations to breastfeed, particularly the travel part. So if I refused to, and they fired me, it would be legit.

    As for not getting a review and raise, even though I've asked for the review, I'm sure they could just say they were behind and hadn't gotten to it yet. 

    Bossman is a jerk, for sure, but I'm not convinced he's done anything illegal? 

    That's what you need a lawyer for - to tell you if you even have any legal options.  Lawyers will typically either give you a free consult, or sometimes they'll charge a small consult fee (like $200).  It's worth it to at least talk to someone. 

    Exactly.  Let them tell you you don't have a case. Or, if you do, deal with that azzhole properly.

     

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  • imagemissusbee:

    The vast majority of the inappropriate behavior has been in the form of verbal comments, which I can't document. 

    You can absolutely document verbal comments.  It's called "contemporaneous notes."  Send yourself an email (to and from your PERSONAL email account) when they happen.  "Today I was in Boss' office discussing X project and he made Y discriminatory comment."
    image
    Anything you can achieve through hard work, you could also just buy.
  • imagesprky79:

    There are limits to how much they need to accommodate you, even for breastfeeding.  Especially if travel is an integral part of your job.  I think you're pushing it w/r/t the travel request.

    I would suggest pumping like a mo fo and storing extra as needed.  You could probably pick up a portable cooler for storing anything you pump on the road.

    It isn't, though. Which is why Boss had an expensive teleconferencing system installed. Which she could easily use instead of traveling, which would save the client money too.
    image
  • imagetartaruga:
    imagesprky79:

    There are limits to how much they need to accommodate you, even for breastfeeding.  Especially if travel is an integral part of your job.  I think you're pushing it w/r/t the travel request.

    I would suggest pumping like a mo fo and storing extra as needed.  You could probably pick up a portable cooler for storing anything you pump on the road.

    It isn't, though. Which is why Boss had an expensive teleconferencing system installed. Which she could easily use instead of traveling, which would save the client money too.

    That's the part that pisses me off the most. If there was no videoconferencing center, then I would make travel and BFing work if I were missusbee. What I would really love to know is if there are other employees who have requested to use the equipment instead of travel and whether their requests were approved.

  • imagemarie427:
    imagetartaruga:
    imagesprky79:

    There are limits to how much they need to accommodate you, even for breastfeeding.  Especially if travel is an integral part of your job.  I think you're pushing it w/r/t the travel request.

    I would suggest pumping like a mo fo and storing extra as needed.  You could probably pick up a portable cooler for storing anything you pump on the road.

    It isn't, though. Which is why Boss had an expensive teleconferencing system installed. Which she could easily use instead of traveling, which would save the client money too.

    That's the part that pisses me off the most. If there was no videoconferencing center, then I would make travel and BFing work if I were missusbee. What I would really love to know is if there are other employees who have requested to use the equipment instead of travel and whether their requests were approved.

    And since ALL her coworkers are men, any disparity would look gender-related. 
    image
    Anything you can achieve through hard work, you could also just buy.
  • imagecookiemdough:
    image5thOfJuly:
    imagecookiemdough:

    Mommies vs Childless by choice in 3....2....1....

    Nope. Childless by choice and 100% Team Missusbee here. She's asking for totally reasonable accomodations and is getting systemative and pervasive gendered  harassment in return.

    That is good to know.  It seemed for a minute that we were going down the "her inconvenience is no different than the inconvenience that her co-workers will experience in picking up the slack" road. 

    I'm pretty anti-special privileges for mommies, and I find this whole scenario to be discriminatory evil bullshits.  Not only is her request reasonable, she has a solution that doesn't rely on her coworkers at all.  

    Even if it did, as someone who's railed against my former company's mommies-first attitudes, I'd be more than happy to cover for a short time period for this situation.  What I didn't like about my company was that it was standing policy for any parent in any situation (that they didn't travel, pretty much ever, b/c they had kids).  This is entirely different.

    image
  • imagemissusbee:

    Okay. Thanks all.

    I'm feeling more confident that I can actually pump while out of town. Obviously it will be a logistical nightmare (the cooling/storing of milk is just one part of it; finding places to pump at my clients' won't be fun either), but it sounds like this is doable. So that has been so helpful.

    I guess the kicker for all of this is how totally unnecessary this is.  My boss just invested major $$ in a videoconferencing room for our office--I could easily do my work remotely. Easily. None of this is the point. He is taking this approach to punish me, and he knows it, and I know it, and everyone at my company knows it too. So perhaps that explains why I'm having a hard time with this. There isn't a reason for this level of inconvenience and effort other than to make a showcase out of me, making the irresponsible decision to get pregnant and have a baby. So, in this context, there is still the possibility that I will make it work and still get fired. hence my questions about protections.

    Anyway. Thanks for all of your input. I do appreciate this--you are all so helpful.

    Unfortunately, denying your travel request isn't doing anything illegal, since it's part of your job description.  I can even envision situations where I'd be Team Company on it, but from this, it just sounds like the guy is being a jerk, so that really sucks, and I'm sorry.

    FWIW, I had to travel quite a few times when BFing my kids.  If at all possible, DH and the kids came with me, because it made it a lot easier (only had to pump during the day when I was away, not day and night).  I have to stay gov't rate as well, and I was always able to find a hotel that had a mini-fridge option.  Often even if it doesn't come standard with the room, you can request one either free or at a minimum charge.

    If the kids didn't travel with me, I brought a collapsible cooler.  You do not have to pump and dump, it is very possible (at least for shorter trips) to bring the BM back on the plane.  BM keeps for up to a week refrigerated, so if the trip is shorter than that it's still good when you come back.  Print out a copy of the FAA regulations to have going through security, but you can bring the milk through, baby or no.  The trick is usually the cooling part.  I never had a problem bringing through refreezable packs, but the trick then is getting the hotel to freeze them for you before you come back.  Alternative is to go through security and get ice from a food vendor on the other side.  Longer than a week I always dumped the early part of the trip, but I know people that had the hotel freeze it for them if the flight back wasn't too long.  If you drive on trips, the best thing is a cooler that plugs into the DC socket in the car, one with an AC adapter so you can just bring it into the hotel.

    As PP said, a lot of people are more cognizant of BFing than before, so it's generally not too huge a headache to bring it up to get accomodation to pump.

    Supply can be an issue for some people pumping 24 hours a day.  Fenugreek works like the bomb for me with supply issues.  Also get the absolute best pump you can afford.

    I'm sorry, the situation sounds like it sucks, but travel isn't impossible while BFing.  GL!!


    image
  • imagemissusbee:

    Krystee and Momi--

    I'm one of 10 employees. The boss I am referring to is the President and owner. I am the only woman here, and in the company's 30 year history, the only one to ever have a baby while employed. 

    Nice, eh? There is no HR, no employee handbook. We don't even have a sexual harassment policy. 

    I still wonder if you could do something like fake flu symptoms and ask that to spare your clients from your illness you teleconference instead, when the time comes, ofcourse.

    But I'm sneaky like that. 

     

    image
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  • imagemissusbee:

    I guess the kicker for all of this is how totally unnecessary this is.  My boss just invested major $$ in a videoconferencing room for our office--I could easily do my work remotely. Easily. None of this is the point. He is taking this approach to punish me, and he knows it, and I know it, and everyone at my company knows it too. So perhaps that explains why I'm having a hard time with this. There isn't a reason for this level of inconvenience and effort other than to make a showcase out of me, making the irresponsible decision to get pregnant and have a baby. So, in this context, there is still the possibility that I will make it work and still get fired. hence my questions about protections.

    When you were talking to him about your alternative to travel strategy, did you point out the cost-savings of less travel, more video conferencing? Sorry if this is an obvious question but to me, it seems a no brainer to a jackass like this - less travel = more profit. 

    Slainte!
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  • Honestly, here's the advantage to lawyering up, and lawyering up now.

    It sounds to me like this guy is in process of making your life miserable. And it's only going to get worse. Like, a lot worse. A lot. He doesn't like that you dared to make a baby while you were working for him, and he's p!ssed about it. And, it sounds like his attitude toward women who work for him is "cute" to begin with. So, yeah.

    I'm telling you, it's not going to get better. It's going to get worse. 

    If you lawyer up now, a good lawyer will be able to help things not get worse. A good lawyer, one who knows her schitt, will have strategies for these situations, that may well save your job, and make it so you don't have to file a lawsuit.

     

     

    Oh, and EEOC wouldn't have jurisdiction in this case, too few employees. You'd need to contact MCAD.

    The Girl is 5. The Boy is 2. The Dog is 1.

    imageimage

    I am the 99%.
  • imagemysticporter:
    imagemissusbee:

    Okay. Thanks all.

    I'm feeling more confident that I can actually pump while out of town. Obviously it will be a logistical nightmare (the cooling/storing of milk is just one part of it; finding places to pump at my clients' won't be fun either), but it sounds like this is doable. So that has been so helpful.

    I guess the kicker for all of this is how totally unnecessary this is.  My boss just invested major $$ in a videoconferencing room for our office--I could easily do my work remotely. Easily. None of this is the point. He is taking this approach to punish me, and he knows it, and I know it, and everyone at my company knows it too. So perhaps that explains why I'm having a hard time with this. There isn't a reason for this level of inconvenience and effort other than to make a showcase out of me, making the irresponsible decision to get pregnant and have a baby. So, in this context, there is still the possibility that I will make it work and still get fired. hence my questions about protections.

    Anyway. Thanks for all of your input. I do appreciate this--you are all so helpful.

    Unfortunately, denying your travel request isn't doing anything illegal, since it's part of your job description.  I can even envision situations where I'd be Team Company on it, but from this, it just sounds like the guy is being a jerk, so that really sucks, and I'm sorry.

    FWIW, I had to travel quite a few times when BFing my kids.  If at all possible, DH and the kids came with me, because it made it a lot easier (only had to pump during the day when I was away, not day and night).  I have to stay gov't rate as well, and I was always able to find a hotel that had a mini-fridge option.  Often even if it doesn't come standard with the room, you can request one either free or at a minimum charge.

    If the kids didn't travel with me, I brought a collapsible cooler.  You do not have to pump and dump, it is very possible (at least for shorter trips) to bring the BM back on the plane.  BM keeps for up to a week refrigerated, so if the trip is shorter than that it's still good when you come back.  Print out a copy of the FAA regulations to have going through security, but you can bring the milk through, baby or no.  The trick is usually the cooling part.  I never had a problem bringing through refreezable packs, but the trick then is getting the hotel to freeze them for you before you come back.  Alternative is to go through security and get ice from a food vendor on the other side.  Longer than a week I always dumped the early part of the trip, but I know people that had the hotel freeze it for them if the flight back wasn't too long.  If you drive on trips, the best thing is a cooler that plugs into the DC socket in the car, one with an AC adapter so you can just bring it into the hotel.

    As PP said, a lot of people are more cognizant of BFing than before, so it's generally not too huge a headache to bring it up to get accomodation to pump.

    Supply can be an issue for some people pumping 24 hours a day.  Fenugreek works like the bomb for me with supply issues.  Also get the absolute best pump you can afford.

    I'm sorry, the situation sounds like it sucks, but travel isn't impossible while BFing.  GL!!

    I think you have a lot of good advice in this response. 

    Seriously, people. If your faith in humanity is destroyed because your parents told you there was a Santa Claus and as it turns out there is no Santa Claus, you are an ignorant, hypersensitive cry baby with absolutely zero perspective. - UnderwaterRhymes
  • Can't help with the whole brestfeeding thing, but I use insulin so when I travel I use one of these. I'm not sure if it would work for milk, but its been a huge lifesaver for me becuase it requires no cooling only water (I'm guessing it won't work but hey thought I'd mention it).
    The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page.
  • imagemaggie78:
    Can't help with the whole brestfeeding thing, but I use insulin so when I travel I use one of these. I'm not sure if it would work for milk, but its been a huge lifesaver for me becuase it requires no cooling only water (I'm guessing it won't work but hey thought I'd mention it).

    I've used those for my kids epi-pens when we went to Mexico.  I don't think they would keep milk cold enough.

  • I think there is a lot of good logistic advice in this thread (admittedly I skimmed much of it).

    My advice would be to document everything in case something happens and to start looking for a new job. You may have to stick it out for a while until you find something, but your boss sounds awful and like he's not going to get any more family friendly as the years go on. I'm sure there will be many other things you don't want to miss with your child and it doesn't sound like you'll have much say in scheduling around them or having an otherwise flexible schedule.  

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