Married Life
Dear Community,
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Our tech team has launched updates to The Nest today. As a result of these updates, members of the Nest Community will need to change their password in order to continue participating in the community. In addition, The Nest community member's avatars will be replaced with generic default avatars. If you wish to revert to your original avatar, you will need to re-upload it via The Nest.
If you have questions about this, please email help@theknot.com.
Thank you.
Note: This only affects The Nest's community members and will not affect members on The Bump or The Knot.
Re: Feeling like a maid. (Long Post)
Wow, just wow. I think you know that this is not normal, that's why you posted. The fact that you needed confirmation and are keeping a notebook tells me that he is distorting the way you see yourself. You mentioned finding a counseling, I hope you do so quickly and learn to value yourself more. That is probably the first step.
I am a SAHM, so I get that you are home and will do more of the household work. That is normal, but doing everything all the time and then keeping tabs on you is not okay or normal behavior. It is controlling and condescending, you are not his child or employee.
When was the last time he was home with the kids while you did something? He needs a realistic view of a regular day, not the 1-2 hours before bedtime. Assuming he is capable and you don't need to worry about him being abusive, then I think it is probably time for a reality check. Truly your husband should like an a$$, I can't fathom living like that.
Baby Boy loved for 15 weeks, 5/31/11
Baby Girl loved for 16.5 weeks. 3/1/12
I'm definitely going to look into counseling. I do contribute more to the housework and cleaning now that I don't have a job except to be home with my kids. But it's like my husband gives me a list of chores to do and even if I completed every chore, there's still something more for me to do. I have told him before not to leave me "to-do" lists because I know what I need to do.
I've also mentioned that I feel like I'm his child or subordinate because he treats me like so, like I don't know how to clean or be a mother. He responds, "Well if you didn't act like one, I wouldn't treat you this way."
He thinks that he needs to tell me what to do for anything to get done, but he never even gives me a chance to show that I already do what he asks me to do.
I just think that asking me to dedicate 40 hours a week to just cleaning is ridiculous. He doesn't think so. And I'm glad that I have all of you for advice and insight on the situation. I feel a lot better just knowing that I'm not crazy by thinking he's controlling. lol!
This, right there. That is a sign of someone with an abusive personality. I don't have any advice for you except you have my prayers and my sympathy.
Forget everything else in this post(Although, trust me, there's plenty of evidence everywhere in this thread), just based on the bolded statement alone I can tell you that your husband is most certainly an abuser, and you need to take the kids and gtfo immediately ... and not even think about going back without both of you going through tons of individual and couples' counseling.
I'm more than willing to start validating people's ideas when they start having ideas worth validating
We have the benefit of a lot of distance from this situation. From where I'm standing you're are SO far down the rabbit hole of an abusive relationship I hurt for you. Your husband should be your partner. Partners don't talk to each other like one is subordinate. They don't tell each other what to do. They don't demean each other. They also don't struggle to prove to the abuser that they're doing a good job.
Honey, it's time to do more than consider counseling. It's time to GO. On your own regardless of him. That you were willing to put up with so much of this without realizing it is ABUSE screams that you need some outside perspective.
I am saddest for your young children who are learning every day that this is how to treat a woman and a wife. Your daughter is learning that her role is to be treated like dirt. Take action. Teach your children how partners should treat each other: kindness, love, respect.
Just an update on the situation... He apparently talked to his mother at her house for the last two hours and he texted me and said, "My mom just gave me a lot of insight on your perspective. I love you."
This is baffles me because he can understand my perspective through his MOM but not his own WIFE?!
I know what you mean about the kids. I'm seriously thinking about things.
Ok ew. Just ew. I am completely horrified by this. What the actual fuvck?!? He is so far beyond reasonable it isn't even funny.
I've been with an abuser before. I cannot STRESS how much better your life is without the person. Seriously, SO MUCH BETTER.
I would GTFO. Your kids will be better off without him.
OH HE!! NO!!
I would have stabbed his a$$ by now. This whole thread makes me furious!! I'm a SAHM & my H would be dead if he said/ did/ was like this.
Leave him or kill him but get the F away from him. What an (every bad word) here.
Sounds like it's time to go away for the weekend on your own and leave him with the kids and a list of chores you expect to be finished when you get home.
What an asshat. Does he plan on hiring a babysitter to watch the children while you're cleaning 40 hours a week?
Yes, I agree with everyone that your husband sounds like a controlling douchebagg, however - is there anything behind this?
My husband is a SAHD and I sometimes get frustrated with him that the utility room he's been planning to clean for 3 weeks isn't done, the kitchen is a mess, the living room is just livable, I have to clean up dog poop outside before I let the kids out there to play, my prescriptions haven't been picked up and the banking hasn't been done in 2 weeks. Though I get that he is busy throughout the day, I also know that he logs A LOT of time on his computer watching sports highlights, the kids nap for 2 hrs a day and I know that I can get a crazy amount of stuff done in 2 hours - but he doesn't, so it frustrates me.
Is he walking in to the house looking like a war zone, the laundry not done, no cleaning projects done and you just proud of yourself for having kept everyone alive and sane by 6pm? Because if so then yeah, that's frustrating. I hate it when I'm told that he never has time for things to get done, and I've certainly wondered what my husband does during his week hours too.
And for what it's worth I absolutely despise the "SAH is a full time job" argument. Ick. Right now DH is at home with the girls making cupcakes and watching the newest Scooby Doo movie.
My husband. How he suffers.
Chronically hilarious - you'll split your stitches!
I wrote a book! Bucket list CHECK!
http://notesfortheirtherapist.blogspot.co.uk
He responds, "Well if you didn't act like one, I wouldn't treat you this way."
This statement is not okay. Sounds like classic abuse grooming. I wonder if he has been controlling prior to this year you just didn't notice it as much.
I hope that his mom was able to explain things to him and that the reality is he is just a jerk vs an abuser. Either the fact that you fought back made him think about his approach or he thought it would be a good way to manipulate you into thinking he is going to change his approach.
Either way make the call today for an appointment and start working on yourself so that you have the strength to leave if it comes to that. If he is just a jerk maybe he see changes and want to come too.
Baby Boy loved for 15 weeks, 5/31/11
Baby Girl loved for 16.5 weeks. 3/1/12
I'm not convinced that this whole thing hasn't just been blown out of proportion.
You guys are fighting, you claim that what you do is a full time job or more than a full time job, his response is to demand what you do during your full time job and says fine, if you think it is a full time job then write down what you do for a week and then we'll compare, etc.
which has now turned in to holy crap you married an abusive would-be serial killer you should leave him now and be a single parent to 3 children this man has zero redeeming qualities whatsoever I can't believe you married this jerkface you idiot.
Another thing that has been biting at me about your post - you say that he doesn't look after the kids on his own (he sucks) but then you also say that you don't trust him to look after the kids on his own (you suck) because you don't agree with how he parents them (you guys both suck). You two obviously have communication problems and need to co-parent a lot more than you already do - which also means respecting and compromising on how he wants to raise his children as well.
You don't want him to put them in time outs, in their crib, in their room, whatever - but are you giving him effective alternatives? Effective alternatives that are effective for HIM, and that he is fully on board with? Are you two discussing how, as a united parenting team, you want to deal with these things? Or is this contributing to your problem with each other?
Or are you claiming that SAH is your full time job but then he feels that you are doing a crappy full time job with a chaotic house and kids that are out of control, but you aren't willing to work with him on how your kids should be raised, disciplined and how the house should be kept?
I'm not saying that your kids are monsters and your house is a scene from hoarders (put the pitch fork down) - just trying to offer a different perspective on what could be happening here.
Chronically hilarious - you'll split your stitches!
I wrote a book! Bucket list CHECK!
http://notesfortheirtherapist.blogspot.co.uk
Is there another post I am missing? I don't recall OP talking about discipline, leaving him alone, etc. Off to search.
That said your first post sort of struck me a bit. I think being a SAH is easier when they are babies or older. Her kids are 1,2 and 6. One needs her a lot, the other is probably trying to climb and jump off things while the other could be planning how to paint on the walls. Diapers, different nap schedules, etc. Taking care of kids can be exhausting and having someone dictate your day is not okay under any circumstance. Their relationship is dysfunctional at best and if there are other posts then maybe it is not as bleak as it appears.
Baby Boy loved for 15 weeks, 5/31/11
Baby Girl loved for 16.5 weeks. 3/1/12
Uh, no. It's not about him just critizing her. It's about these quotes:
"Just today, he told me that I should dedicate 40-hours" per week cleaning and doing housework with doing no leisure activities in between. He said, "You said that being a stay-at-home parent is a full time job, so I think you should do that...and then having to document it for when he comes home so he can "see" what I've done"
Just to cleaning, with a one year old, three kids, and a household to take care of? Alone this is dangerously clueless, but the documenting thing makes him an . At this point, just a clueless , though.
"he's telling me that when he lived alone and worked a 40-hour per week job that his house was always clean. I told him that I'm trying to clean for FIVE people now plus having to take care of three people in the process and he said, "That's not an excuse.""
"he says that what I have to do isn't something spectacular or out of the ordinary and that any woman already contributes 40+ hours per week of just cleaning and housework, while taking care of 3 kids."
Assholey clueless still...and unable to see differences
"He just told me last night that he lies on his time sheet because he'd be in trouble is his boss knew he goofed off most of the day. And I brought that up to him and he said that it doesn't matter. "
Aaaand now we verge into the abuser territory. A double-standard making her lazy no matter what.
"And yes, he makes me feel worthless, but not directly saying it. And when I tell him how I feel, he just saying I'm over-thinking the situation. But I've NEVER felt like this in my entire life! He keeps telling me he wants to see the confident girl he fell in love with, but it seems almost impossible with how he makes me feel like I'm not good enough."
Making you feel worthless without directly saying it? Classic abusive. Making her feel bad about feeling worthless? Classic abusive.
"I actually worked two full time jobs and he told me to quit them because we couldn't afford daycare and he wanted me to be a stay-at-home mom... I used to be a very independent person. He makes me feel like I HAVE to rely on him for everything, but in the next breath, he's telling me that he hates that I rely on him."
DING DING DING! Taking an independent woman, making her reliant and then lambasting her for it? That ALONE would be a huge red flag making me think that she needed to back up and take a look around her. Combined with the other stuff, ABUSER.
"Yes, I actually have a notebook of "what I did on [insert date here]".:
My guess is you would never make your husband keep a notebook to make himself feel like he wasn't a lazy person, Tofu.
"He hardly helps with the kids. My mom said something to him once when I had my hands full with the baby and the oldest one asked my husband to tie her shoe and he said, "Go ask mom to do it." "
Again, not something any loving partner would do, whether or not the other person's primary role was SAH.
"But it's like my husband gives me a list of chores to do and even if I completed every chore, there's still something more for me to do."
She IS doing everything he tells her. And it's not enough.
"I've also mentioned that I feel like I'm his child or subordinate because he treats me like so, like I don't know how to clean or be a mother. He responds, "Well if you didn't act like one, I wouldn't treat you this way."
This is SO WRONG I don't even know where to start. It speaks for itself.
It can be hard to pick up on abusive patterns if you haven't been in a situation directly dealing with an abuser, especially since they're subtle. I think that the fact that a lot of people with direct experience(and even some who don't) are reacting the way they are is telling. I personally don't throw the term around, either.
Btw, please read about the CYCLE OF ABUSE, OP!
It was this one - that she doesn't trust him to take care of the kids at all because he chooses to discipline differently, that makes me think that there are larger things at play that have caused this to unfold the way it has.
Chronically hilarious - you'll split your stitches!
I wrote a book! Bucket list CHECK!
http://notesfortheirtherapist.blogspot.co.uk
Sorry about the quote-war, I don't know how to make it smaller.
I'm not disputing that taking care of 3 young kids is difficult - of course it is. However, it's not comparable (to me - or apparently to OP's husband) to a full time job outside of the home. One is not "harder" than the other - they are both very different with very different demands and emotional tolls. Yes, diapers and feedings and nap schedules are challenging and frustrating - but so are the demands of bosses, clients, commutes, work place stressors, workplace competition and relationships, the physical and mental demands of that job, etc.
I'm just trying to look at it from the other side of the coin and feel that maybe, just maybe, OP's is doing the "but SAH is a full time job and I'm working HARDER THAN YOU and her husband's reaction was one of fine - then treat it like a full time job, be accountable for your time and productivity, like you would have to be in a job outside the home, which has now turned into "ZOMG he is ABUSING ME by asking me to be productive and accountable!!"
Do I think that SAH parents should submit a timesheet to their working spouses for validation? God no. It isn't a competition, FFS. I'm just saying that OP has made it seem like her douchebagg husband came up with this out of the blue and we are only getting one side of the story - if I'm right, this could be workable and she may not need to run off to a battered women's shelter with 3 young kids tomorrow, no?
I know that you guys may not agree with me here, but I'm learning that it is always beneficial to look at other angles of an issue.
Chronically hilarious - you'll split your stitches!
I wrote a book! Bucket list CHECK!
http://notesfortheirtherapist.blogspot.co.uk
I agree- but be careful with that one. My SAH husband went off golfing for a weekend and came home to a ridiculously clean house, there was stuff in the freezer, shopping had been done, all bills were paid, the couch cushions were cleaned, the closets had all been cleaned out and the kids had had playdates and done painting, etc. I went off the deep end to be a right cow and prove to him that it is possible to be super productive while home with the kids (and twin 2.5 year olds at that). I think I even shampooed the dog.
The thing is, you need to find a balance with him between what is possible and what is reasonable for a happy home for all of you guys.
Chronically hilarious - you'll split your stitches!
I wrote a book! Bucket list CHECK!
http://notesfortheirtherapist.blogspot.co.uk
It's NOT just "he doesn't look after the kids and expects things to be done" though. Look at the quotes I quoted. She specifically completes his lists! And he won't even tie his kid's shoe!
I feel strongly about this because it takes one person to encourage someone to stay in a bad situation.
No, of course not. But it is something that I can imagine someone would say in the heat of an argument about it, as in "fine, if you think you're so overworked then write down what it is you do in a day" kind of thing. The fact that she actually DID it - is he forcing her to do it (abuse) or is she doing it out of spite (communication issues, among other things)? Is he coming home demanding to see her notebook? Or is he coming home and she is thrusting it in his face screaming SEE! SEE! 3:07-3:19 cleaned shyt and jam off the radiator! 3:19-3:27 read Dora's Princess Adventure, interrupted 7 times by 2 year old asking for a pony. SEE!!!
On one hand yes, he does sound abusive. However, we are only getting one side.
I don't know. Me being the one that works outside the home with my husband at home with the kids makes me think about this stuff differently, I guess, and I can very easily see how this might be a communication issue between them that the OP has a part in too, rather than just her husband is an abusive dickface.
Chronically hilarious - you'll split your stitches!
I wrote a book! Bucket list CHECK!
http://notesfortheirtherapist.blogspot.co.uk
I appreciate that you feel strongly about it - I don't feel that I am encouraging her to stay in an abusive situation. I'm just trying to provide a different viewpoint on it.
I think I have a healthy, happy marriage - but I do sometimes give my husband to-do lists. Otherwise, he goes all ADD and I come home to find that the kids are still in pj's and they've been eating frozen pizza like wild dogs and the cat has turned the laundry pile into a nest of domination and terror. If I don't give him a grocery list or a meal plan the guy will completely forget sun blushed tomatoes, despite buying them every week for the last year. He will not pick up prescriptions without a text from me asking him to do so. He's got two two year olds - some days he's lucky if he can remember to brush his own teeth. Does that make me controlling?
We are assuming A LOT here. What are the tasks on OP's actual lists? I don't think asking that the living room get a hoover and beds being made is actually too much - or getting something ready for the weekend. Or is it a list of "re-grout bathtub, fold my underwear into perfectly symmetrical triangles, bake brownies and put on make-up"?
Chronically hilarious - you'll split your stitches!
I wrote a book! Bucket list CHECK!
http://notesfortheirtherapist.blogspot.co.uk
I do agree with you - he hardly sounds like someone that I would want to be with. However, I just think that it is perhaps worth trying to improve these things before throwing in the towel completely. It doesn't sound to me like OP has tried counseling, working on their communication, having a frank and honest (come to Jesus?) talk with her husband, leaving him with his children for a day or weekend or anything other than keeping a log of what she does all day every day. And before I make any judgement on that I'd rather know if the book is out of force or out of spite, that's all.
Chronically hilarious - you'll split your stitches!
I wrote a book! Bucket list CHECK!
http://notesfortheirtherapist.blogspot.co.uk
I feel like I want to get a side bet going with you...
Chronically hilarious - you'll split your stitches!
I wrote a book! Bucket list CHECK!
http://notesfortheirtherapist.blogspot.co.uk
I will not quote so that this response is shorter. Tofu, I get what your saying and thanks for the kids quote. I just don't like that OP feels worthless and it appears that she cannot win. When you get in a situation where you cannot do anything "right" and your spouse it belittling what you do daily then it is emotional abuse.
Every situation and marriage is different, different expectations and you need to work those out when the status changes. It's possible that they never discussed expectations when OP became a SAH and they've allowed things to snowball out of control. You did point out the parenting issues, it could be parenting miscommunication or he wants silent obedient kids. Really there is no way to know without clarification.
There are a lot of things going on in this post. He has clearly crossed a line b/c of her feelings of worthlessness and his comments about needing to treat her like a child b/c she acts like one. It just doesn't sit well with me.
Baby Boy loved for 15 weeks, 5/31/11
Baby Girl loved for 16.5 weeks. 3/1/12
Take a day off. Then he will see what you do all day....because none of it will be done!
This makes you sound like an a$$.
Did you feel superior? This is all sorts of screwed up.