UO Thursday

islandmonkey8 · May 2014

brij2006 said:

TheDeaton's said:

brij2006 said:

TheDeaton's said:

More than likely those people are earning more than minimum wage or $10/hour.

If that's the case, then why not require anyone earning under $10/hour to take a budgeting class? Yes, there are many people out there making minimum wage who truly live on nothing and have nothing. Then there are ones who make $10/hour and because they can't stay away from eating out, having a car payment they can't afford, or spending frivolously, they fight that they should make more money because they can't make ends meet.

Will $10/hour minimum wage truly solve anything? The ones who make $10/hour now, won't get a raise to $12/hour because minimum wage increased. The laws of economics will come into play and other items will increase due to employers needing to cover the extra payroll expense and there being a higher demand on things from there being extra disposable income.

Budgeting class? Here's an idea. Why don't you budget your life on 7.25 an hour, How are you going to keep your lights on, roof over your head, and groceries. You won't. You will need assistance. But wait.....you're against that too.

That's the thing, someone on minimum wage IS getting assistance right now. So take out any expense for food or healthcare, and it can be liveable.

This is not true in many cases. The rules for qualifying for assistance do not make everyone making $10/hour get assistance. Additionally, programs run out of money and can't even help everyone who DOES qualify.

BruinsBabe33 · May 2014

Seriously, how sheltered are you? Do you watch a lot of Fox News? Your ignorance is blinding.

TheDeaton's · May 2014

brij2006 said:

TheDeaton's said:

brij2006 said:

TheDeaton's said:

More than likely those people are earning more than minimum wage or $10/hour.

If that's the case, then why not require anyone earning under $10/hour to take a budgeting class? Yes, there are many people out there making minimum wage who truly live on nothing and have nothing. Then there are ones who make $10/hour and because they can't stay away from eating out, having a car payment they can't afford, or spending frivolously, they fight that they should make more money because they can't make ends meet.

Will $10/hour minimum wage truly solve anything? The ones who make $10/hour now, won't get a raise to $12/hour because minimum wage increased. The laws of economics will come into play and other items will increase due to employers needing to cover the extra payroll expense and there being a higher demand on things from there being extra disposable income.

Budgeting class? Here's an idea. Why don't you budget your life on 7.25 an hour, How are you going to keep your lights on, roof over your head, and groceries. You won't. You will need assistance. But wait.....you're against that too.

That's the thing, someone on minimum wage IS getting assistance right now. So take out any expense for food or healthcare, and it can be liveable.

Lol, Not everybody making minimum wage is getting assistance.

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. So they should keep making 7.25 but stay on WIC, Medicare, etc.....but you don't agree that those programs are needed? Have you not said that before?

arj14 · May 2014

This is a game that tries to simulate going through one month on minimum wage:

http://playspent.org/

brij2006 · May 2014

seahorse01 said:

A lot of people don't have access to education, or the skills or opportunity to apply for grants/loans to pay for school. And great paying jobs that require no training or skills aren't just sitting out there waiting for people. I feel like based on a lot of your opinions that you have led a very sheltered life. Some research on minority bias, white privilege and the like would probably be very beneficial.

And I hope you never have to be in the position to take a low paying job and have people that feel the way you do judge you.

$10 an hour isn't a living wage either FWIW.

Just a small town hick getting her white trash on, duh.

There are many places to receive a livable wage, people just have to be willing to do the work to get it. The manufacturing and construction companies are paying a very livable wage, because there are so many people that don't want to do manual labor and want desk jobs instead. Why should someone doing nothing at their job be "entitled" to get paid $10 an hour? When are people going to be held accountable for their decisions in the workplace or their actions? Very rarely do you hear about someone getting paid minimum wage because they've been at their place of employment for 10 years and give effort toward their job.

brij2006 · May 2014

TheDeaton's said:

brij2006 said:

TheDeaton's said:

brij2006 said:

TheDeaton's said:

More than likely those people are earning more than minimum wage or $10/hour.

If that's the case, then why not require anyone earning under $10/hour to take a budgeting class? Yes, there are many people out there making minimum wage who truly live on nothing and have nothing. Then there are ones who make $10/hour and because they can't stay away from eating out, having a car payment they can't afford, or spending frivolously, they fight that they should make more money because they can't make ends meet.

Will $10/hour minimum wage truly solve anything? The ones who make $10/hour now, won't get a raise to $12/hour because minimum wage increased. The laws of economics will come into play and other items will increase due to employers needing to cover the extra payroll expense and there being a higher demand on things from there being extra disposable income.

Budgeting class? Here's an idea. Why don't you budget your life on 7.25 an hour, How are you going to keep your lights on, roof over your head, and groceries. You won't. You will need assistance. But wait.....you're against that too.

That's the thing, someone on minimum wage IS getting assistance right now. So take out any expense for food or healthcare, and it can be liveable.

Lol, Not everybody making minimum wage is getting assistance.

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. So they should keep making 7.25 but stay on WIC, Medicare, etc.....but you don't agree that those programs are needed? Have you not said that before?

So how will $10/hour minimum wage get rid of these programs?

TheDeaton's · May 2014

brij2006 said:

TheDeaton's said:

brij2006 said:

TheDeaton's said:

brij2006 said:

TheDeaton's said:

More than likely those people are earning more than minimum wage or $10/hour.

If that's the case, then why not require anyone earning under $10/hour to take a budgeting class? Yes, there are many people out there making minimum wage who truly live on nothing and have nothing. Then there are ones who make $10/hour and because they can't stay away from eating out, having a car payment they can't afford, or spending frivolously, they fight that they should make more money because they can't make ends meet.

Will $10/hour minimum wage truly solve anything? The ones who make $10/hour now, won't get a raise to $12/hour because minimum wage increased. The laws of economics will come into play and other items will increase due to employers needing to cover the extra payroll expense and there being a higher demand on things from there being extra disposable income.

Budgeting class? Here's an idea. Why don't you budget your life on 7.25 an hour, How are you going to keep your lights on, roof over your head, and groceries. You won't. You will need assistance. But wait.....you're against that too.

That's the thing, someone on minimum wage IS getting assistance right now. So take out any expense for food or healthcare, and it can be liveable.

Lol, Not everybody making minimum wage is getting assistance.

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. So they should keep making 7.25 but stay on WIC, Medicare, etc.....but you don't agree that those programs are needed? Have you not said that before?

So how will $10/hour minimum wage get rid of these programs?

$110 is a lot of money each week that can do a lot when you are living in poverty. Minimum wage should be the minimum wage one can live on. Not live on in extravagance but pay the necessities. Will is eliminate assistance programs? No, they will always be needed. Will it help some people come off these programs? Maybe. Is it the right thing to do, raising the minimum wage? Absolutely.

arj14 · May 2014

brij2006 said:

seahorse01 said:

A lot of people don't have access to education, or the skills or opportunity to apply for grants/loans to pay for school. And great paying jobs that require no training or skills aren't just sitting out there waiting for people. I feel like based on a lot of your opinions that you have led a very sheltered life. Some research on minority bias, white privilege and the like would probably be very beneficial.

And I hope you never have to be in the position to take a low paying job and have people that feel the way you do judge you.

$10 an hour isn't a living wage either FWIW.

Just a small town hick getting her white trash on, duh.

There are many places to receive a livable wage, people just have to be willing to do the work to get it. The manufacturing and construction companies are paying a very livable wage, because there are so many people that don't want to do manual labor and want desk jobs instead. Why should someone doing nothing at their job be "entitled" to get paid $10 an hour? When are people going to be held accountable for their decisions in the workplace or their actions? Very rarely do you hear about someone getting paid minimum wage because they've been at their place of employment for 10 years and give effort toward their job.

Please tell me you are not talking about customer service jobs.

CincodeMayoLove · May 2014

I get that you made this UO to stir discussion and for entertainment . That is the only reason I'm not steaming. My H had a BS and worked at minimum jobs for 7 years. He literally looked for jobs at least. 2 hours a week to find a better job. There was nothing. If I would also have been minimum wage we would have been fucked- like the first 3 years when I was still in school and we got into tons of credit card debt to live and ate a ton of hot dogs and potatoes.

His paycheck only covered benefits and one/month covered rent ( at an affordable housing apartment when I was in school) and the other covered all our bills. Credit cards covered food clothes etc.
When I started working his paychecks covered benefits and the two (paychecks per month) together covered our mortgage. On a good month.
Again, he worked his ass off looking for a better job for 7 years and finally found one ( which ps, he didn't need his degree for...) so tell me how he deserved minimum wage? And all the heartache, stress, and percieved unworthiness he felt?

brij2006 · May 2014

BruinsBabe33 said:

Seriously, how sheltered are you? Do you watch a lot of Fox News? Your ignorance is blinding.

Actually Bruins, H and I have to vote for Democrat and watch our backs on the walk home from the voting poll. Many people in our area listen to Rush Limbaugh and Fox News, but we refuse to listen to them. We're considered very liberal in our area.

I've lived in Chicago, volunteered in the projects, supported myself on $8 an hour while going to school (including apartment, utilities, and food in a suburb of Chicago), am a CASA advocate for abused children in our area (high percentage of children are abused by their parents here). We also live in a county with the highest unemployment rate in Illinois, and administer Financial Peace University at our local church where over 50% of the adults earn $12/hour or less.

So no, I do not view myself as sheltered. More of someone who has broken myself from the sheltered mold that many people in our area are brought up with.

amandaf6383 · May 2014

Brij, you're a sweet girl and that's why I hesitated to comment on this but I just can't stay silent. What you are saying is completely ignorant. I know so many hard workers who have struggled and made minimum wage and BUSTED their asses to get by. I've known women who were single mothers who worked multiple minimum wage jobs while studying their asses off to get a degree, only to get yet another low paying job.

Raising the minimum wage isn't for the lazy people, it's for the good, hard working people. I would rather some lazy asshole benefits so that 1,000 more deserving people can survive. And let's not kid ourselves. $10/hour is hardly going to afford someone a life of affluence. That's like bottom of the barrel survival.

LuckyAngel07 · May 2014

arj14 said:

This is a game that tries to simulate going through one month on minimum wage:

http://playspent.org/

I made it through the month...barely. I couldn't afford to be nearly as generous with either time or money when it came to friend/family needs as I can be right now, and I didn't like that. I also know I didn't eat too well.

brij2006 · May 2014

arj14 said:

brij2006 said:

seahorse01 said:

A lot of people don't have access to education, or the skills or opportunity to apply for grants/loans to pay for school. And great paying jobs that require no training or skills aren't just sitting out there waiting for people. I feel like based on a lot of your opinions that you have led a very sheltered life. Some research on minority bias, white privilege and the like would probably be very beneficial.

And I hope you never have to be in the position to take a low paying job and have people that feel the way you do judge you.

$10 an hour isn't a living wage either FWIW.

Just a small town hick getting her white trash on, duh.

There are many places to receive a livable wage, people just have to be willing to do the work to get it. The manufacturing and construction companies are paying a very livable wage, because there are so many people that don't want to do manual labor and want desk jobs instead. Why should someone doing nothing at their job be "entitled" to get paid $10 an hour? When are people going to be held accountable for their decisions in the workplace or their actions? Very rarely do you hear about someone getting paid minimum wage because they've been at their place of employment for 10 years and give effort toward their job.

Please tell me you are not talking about customer service jobs.

Not any job specifically. Just a general blanket statement asking why someone should get paid more if they're doing the bare minimum.

MRads · May 2014

I have a lot of feelings on mandating minimum wage and a lot of them conflicting, because I know a lot of very small business owners, but I know a lot of people struggling on minimum wage.

However, I literally lol that you suggest that the government shouldn't legislate a higher minimum wage but you should legislate those people on minimum wage should take a class. Are you for govt intervention or against it? Because I'm a little confused.

nfp147 · May 2014

brij2006 said:

arj14 said:

brij2006 said:

seahorse01 said:

A lot of people don't have access to education, or the skills or opportunity to apply for grants/loans to pay for school. And great paying jobs that require no training or skills aren't just sitting out there waiting for people. I feel like based on a lot of your opinions that you have led a very sheltered life. Some research on minority bias, white privilege and the like would probably be very beneficial.

And I hope you never have to be in the position to take a low paying job and have people that feel the way you do judge you.

$10 an hour isn't a living wage either FWIW.

Just a small town hick getting her white trash on, duh.

There are many places to receive a livable wage, people just have to be willing to do the work to get it. The manufacturing and construction companies are paying a very livable wage, because there are so many people that don't want to do manual labor and want desk jobs instead. Why should someone doing nothing at their job be "entitled" to get paid $10 an hour? When are people going to be held accountable for their decisions in the workplace or their actions? Very rarely do you hear about someone getting paid minimum wage because they've been at their place of employment for 10 years and give effort toward their job.

Please tell me you are not talking about customer service jobs.

Not any job specifically. Just a general blanket statement asking why someone should get paid more if they're doing the bare minimum.

I just don't understand where you get your correlation between making minimum wage and doing bare minimum. Why do you assume that everyone making minimum wage is lazy?

nfp147 · May 2014

brij2006 said:

TheDeaton's said:

brij2006 said:

We need some entertainment in here.....

Minimum wage shouldn't go up to $10/hour. If you have minimum skill set, do the minimum, apply yourself minimally in your job, and give the minimum effort, then you are entitled to be paid the minimum. If people want to earn more, then do more and try harder.

This doesn't mean I'm not for minimum wage increasing to keep on par with inflation, but to set it at a "livable" wage doesn't mean those people deserve that wage.

brij2006 said:

nfp147 said:

brij2006 said:

We need some entertainment in here.....

Minimum wage shouldn't go up to $10/hour. If you have minimum skill set, do the minimum, apply yourself minimally in your job, and give the minimum effort, then you are entitled to be paid the minimum. If people want to earn more, then do more and try harder.

This doesn't mean I'm not for minimum wage increasing to keep on par with inflation, but to set it at a "livable" wage doesn't mean those people deserve that wage.

So all people working minimum wage jobs are lazy, non skilled morons who deserve to work minimum wage? Wow. That's harsh.

Plus, I know a lot of lazy, non skilled morons making $100K a year. But they must deserve that wage right?

Didn't say that they're non skilled morons. Just saying that if they don't like getting paid minimum wage, then they can do something about it. By working at a different place that pays more, applying themselves, or proving they deserve more.

Efforts = Earnings

Effors=/= Earnings dear. I know people that bust their ass and just get by and then others that are lazy and make a good living.

And pretty sure you did say that Minimum Wage earners are uneducated morons. At least that's what I read.

More than likely those people are earning more than minimum wage or $10/hour.

If that's the case, then why not require anyone earning under $10/hour to take a budgeting class? Yes, there are many people out there making minimum wage who truly live on nothing and have nothing. Then there are ones who make $10/hour and because they can't stay away from eating out, having a car payment they can't afford, or spending frivolously, they fight that they should make more money because they can't make ends meet.

Will $10/hour minimum wage truly solve anything? The ones who make $10/hour now, won't get a raise to $12/hour because minimum wage increased. The laws of economics will come into play and other items will increase due to employers needing to cover the extra payroll expense and there being a higher demand on things from there being extra disposable income.

I highly doubt anyone making $10/hr is spending "frivolously".

BruinsBabe33 · May 2014

Got it church helping the poor= good. Government helping= bad!

Aimothy · May 2014

brij2006 said:
Actually Bruins, H and I have to vote for Democrat and watch our backs on the walk home from the voting poll. Many people in our area listen to Rush Limbaugh and Fox News, but we refuse to listen to them. We're considered very liberal in our area.

Uh. Aren't their curtains at your polling places?

amandaf6383 · May 2014

Aimothy said:

brij2006 said:
Actually Bruins, H and I have to vote for Democrat and watch our backs on the walk home from the voting poll. Many people in our area listen to Rush Limbaugh and Fox News, but we refuse to listen to them. We're considered very liberal in our area.

Uh. Aren't their curtains at your polling places?

I feel like you live in Footloose town.

brij2006 · May 2014

MRads said:

I have a lot of feelings on mandating minimum wage and a lot of them conflicting, because I know a lot of very small business owners, but I know a lot of people struggling on minimum wage. However, I literally lol that you suggest that the government shouldn't legislate a higher minimum wage but you should legislate those people on minimum wage should take a class. Are you for govt intervention or against it? Because I'm a little confused.

****Stuck in the box****

The way that I view it is that it's like giving a drunk a drink. They know there's a problem, they know they should do something about it. By giving them a drink you are enabling them to continue the behavior. Why not instead give them the tools to make different decisions. Just like you would direct a drunk to AA and not give them a drink.

caseyandlizzie · May 2014

I just can't stop rolling my eyes here.

nfp147 · May 2014

amandaf6383 said:

Aimothy said:

brij2006 said:
Actually Bruins, H and I have to vote for Democrat and watch our backs on the walk home from the voting poll. Many people in our area listen to Rush Limbaugh and Fox News, but we refuse to listen to them. We're considered very liberal in our area.

Uh. Aren't their curtains at your polling places?

I feel like you live in Footloose town.

Marry me.

brij2006 · May 2014

amandaf6383 said:

Aimothy said:

brij2006 said:
Actually Bruins, H and I have to vote for Democrat and watch our backs on the walk home from the voting poll. Many people in our area listen to Rush Limbaugh and Fox News, but we refuse to listen to them. We're considered very liberal in our area.

Uh. Aren't their curtains at your polling places?

I feel like you live in Footloose town.

Lol. Yes, there are curtains. However, during the smaller elections they ask you Democrat or Republican and you receive a ballot for that side. H and I get the stare down when we say Democrat.

No Footloose crazy town, but there used to be a city ordinance that you couldn't serve liquor within 100 yards of a dance hall. That got thrown out just this year, and was laughable when voted on.

TheDeaton's · May 2014

brij2006 said:

amandaf6383 said:

Aimothy said:

brij2006 said:
Actually Bruins, H and I have to vote for Democrat and watch our backs on the walk home from the voting poll. Many people in our area listen to Rush Limbaugh and Fox News, but we refuse to listen to them. We're considered very liberal in our area.

Uh. Aren't their curtains at your polling places?

I feel like you live in Footloose town.

Lol. Yes, there are curtains. However, during the smaller elections they ask you Democrat or Republican and you receive a ballot for that side. H and I get the stare down when we say Democrat.

No Footloose crazy town, but there used to be a city ordinance that you couldn't serve liquor within 100 yards of a dance hall. That got thrown out just this year, and was laughable when voted on.

How is that even legal?

arj14 · May 2014

brij2006 said:

arj14 said:

brij2006 said:

seahorse01 said:

A lot of people don't have access to education, or the skills or opportunity to apply for grants/loans to pay for school. And great paying jobs that require no training or skills aren't just sitting out there waiting for people. I feel like based on a lot of your opinions that you have led a very sheltered life. Some research on minority bias, white privilege and the like would probably be very beneficial.

And I hope you never have to be in the position to take a low paying job and have people that feel the way you do judge you.

$10 an hour isn't a living wage either FWIW.

Just a small town hick getting her white trash on, duh.

There are many places to receive a livable wage, people just have to be willing to do the work to get it. The manufacturing and construction companies are paying a very livable wage, because there are so many people that don't want to do manual labor and want desk jobs instead. Why should someone doing nothing at their job be "entitled" to get paid $10 an hour? When are people going to be held accountable for their decisions in the workplace or their actions? Very rarely do you hear about someone getting paid minimum wage because they've been at their place of employment for 10 years and give effort toward their job.

Please tell me you are not talking about customer service jobs.

Not any job specifically. Just a general blanket statement asking why someone should get paid more if they're doing the bare minimum.

What are these jobs then? Because when I think of jobs I know that are minimum wage, like fast food / customer service / retail / waiting tables... I can't think of anything where people could get by just doing the minimum.

seahorse01 · May 2014

BruinsBabe33 · May 2014

Omg. You just compared people on assistance to alcoholics. Lololololololol is this real life?

MRads · May 2014

On good lord, I've seen it all. Are you literally comparing people who make minimum wage to drunk drivers?

Yes. The issue is people who make min wage need to be fixed. Not that our whole economic system is broken.

caseyandlizzie · May 2014

MRads said:

On good lord, I've seen it all. Are you literally comparing people who make minimum wage to drunk drivers? Yes. The issue is people who make min wage need to be fixed. Not that our whole economic system is broken.

Hey now, all dependencies are the same, yo.

Apollo11235 · May 2014

brij2006 said:

Minimum wage shouldn't go up to $10/hour.

(...)

This doesn't mean I'm not for minimum wage increasing to keep on par with inflation (1), but to set it at a "livable" wage doesn't mean those people deserve (2) that wage.

Just saying that if they don't like getting paid minimum wage, then they can do something about it (3). By working at a different place that pays more, applying themselves, or proving they deserve more.

I'm going to see if citing some sources will do any good?

(1) According to the US Department of Labor and Bureau of Labor Statistics, if this was actually happening, the minimum wage would already be $10. So yes, you are actually "not for minimum wage increasing [...] with inflation.".

(2) Really? "Those people" deserve no more than a wage they can't live on? I think this is an opinion that needs examining on your part. Look, I agree that budgeting could really help a lot of people, but a) it could help a lot of people with higher incomes just as much, so I think it's far from fair to single out and shame those working for minimum wage further by forcing it on only them; and b) $7.25 an hour, full time, is about $1200/mo before taxes. In the biggest city in my state (population 900k, where the minimum wage is set at the national level), the cheapest 1-bedroom apartments are around $500/mo. That's pretty cheap nationwide, and I know that you know that spending more than 25-28% (this is not a HCOL area) of your take-home pay on total housing (rent, utilities, insurance...) is too much. You do the math there. $7.25 is not livable, even for a single person. But someone who spends nearly half of their waking hours working for you and others doesn't deserve to spend the rest of those hours with their family instead of being forced to work a second job and/or search for a better one that probably doesn't exist right now?

(3) In 2013, there were 1.2 million minimum wage workers in the US over the age of 30. You really think none of them have been working hard for a decade for a corporation that knows they're replaceable but what little wage the job pays isn't? Ideally, sure, the demand for labor would mean these people could go somewhere else, but that just isn't always the case. You suggest that people find manual labor jobs, but what about those with medical conditions making that impossible? Do we let them suffer because we think others should be taking those jobs and leaving the desk jobs for them?

(4) Not everyone on minimum wage is eligible for assistance. Having dependent children is practically required in my state in order to qualify for anything more than $100-200 in total monthly aid. So someone who's just getting started or whose kids are 18 is supposed to live on $1300-1400/mo? The math still doesn't work. I'll pay an extra dollar or so for my pizza if it means the person making it so yummy for me can afford to cook for themselves when they get home.

At the heart of all of this for you, I think, may be a desire to believe that life is fair, that bad things don't happen to good people, people get what they deserve, some deity has a plan, etc. But only if we examine injustices can we actually do anything about them. Poor-shaming to avoid adjusting your faulty worldview just isn't right.

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