UO Thursday

KonaCoffeeBean · May 2014

TheDeaton's said:

brij2006 said:

amandaf6383 said:

Aimothy said:

brij2006 said:
Actually Bruins, H and I have to vote for Democrat and watch our backs on the walk home from the voting poll. Many people in our area listen to Rush Limbaugh and Fox News, but we refuse to listen to them. We're considered very liberal in our area.

Uh. Aren't their curtains at your polling places?

I feel like you live in Footloose town.

Lol. Yes, there are curtains. However, during the smaller elections they ask you Democrat or Republican and you receive a ballot for that side. H and I get the stare down when we say Democrat.

No Footloose crazy town, but there used to be a city ordinance that you couldn't serve liquor within 100 yards of a dance hall. That got thrown out just this year, and was laughable when voted on.

How is that even legal?

I think she is talking about primaries. Also, I'm lost on the whole drunk driving metaphor too.

brij2006 · May 2014

TheDeaton's said:

brij2006 said:

amandaf6383 said:

Aimothy said:

brij2006 said:
Actually Bruins, H and I have to vote for Democrat and watch our backs on the walk home from the voting poll. Many people in our area listen to Rush Limbaugh and Fox News, but we refuse to listen to them. We're considered very liberal in our area.

Uh. Aren't their curtains at your polling places?

I feel like you live in Footloose town.

Lol. Yes, there are curtains. However, during the smaller elections they ask you Democrat or Republican and you receive a ballot for that side. H and I get the stare down when we say Democrat.

No Footloose crazy town, but there used to be a city ordinance that you couldn't serve liquor within 100 yards of a dance hall. That got thrown out just this year, and was laughable when voted on.

How is that even legal?

Guess it is. We did some searching after our first time voting here, and they said it's the way many Townships run their polls. Thankfully it is not for the presidential election.

FutureMrsWright2012 · May 2014

So, out of curiosity... Do you also think that legislation should not be enacted to ensure equal pay for women compared to their male counterparts?

amandaf6383 · May 2014

nfp147 said:

amandaf6383 said:

Aimothy said:

brij2006 said:
Actually Bruins, H and I have to vote for Democrat and watch our backs on the walk home from the voting poll. Many people in our area listen to Rush Limbaugh and Fox News, but we refuse to listen to them. We're considered very liberal in our area.

Uh. Aren't their curtains at your polling places?

I feel like you live in Footloose town.

Marry me.

Okay! :-)

amandaf6383 · May 2014

FutureMrsWright2012 said:

So, out of curiosity... Do you also think that legislation should not be enacted to ensure equal pay for women compared to their male counterparts?

Oooooooooooooh GOOD question!

brij2006 · May 2014

FutureMrsWright2012 said:

So, out of curiosity... Do you also think that legislation should not be enacted to ensure equal pay for women compared to their male counterparts?

I do feel that the pay should be equal, but based on performance. If a man does less work than a woman, then he's getting paid less based on his performance not his sex.

BackseatDriver · May 2014

I heard one argument that if a for profit company pays their full time employees so little that they qualify for assistance then basically we the tax payers are subsidizing the company's profits.

islandmonkey8 · May 2014

I think I need a new job. Myself and a lot of the women I work with do 10 times the amount of work our bosses do and we do it 40 hours/week vs their 25-30 (or less) and make at least 10 times more than we each make. But, a job that actually will pay me enough for the work I do, doesn't exist in my area right now. I think you really just aren't understanding why people who make minimum wage or anywhere near it are working for that wage. Not everyone who makes minimum wage is working these jobs because they are lazy or by choice. It is because a lot of these people do not have any other choice. And sometimes, the time off required just to LOOK for a better paying job would hurt people's income more than they can afford as they live paycheck to paycheck.

I love you brij, but it hurts that you don't seem to understand that the lazy and undereducated aren't the majority of the people. They aren't the ones who we are all here fighting for.

seahorse01 · May 2014

The most upsetting part of all of this is knowing that you aren't the only person who thinks this way.

brij2006 · May 2014

I know that my views are most definitely different than many on this board. We all live in different parts, and predominantly urban areas. However, I'm from the other side where the cost of living is much lower and a single person can make it on minimum wage (not easily but can).

Many people put themselves in these situations (not saying all), and have made the choices to work a minimum wage job without being able to make ends meet. Do I feel that the employer should reward good behavior or someone who goes above and beyond? Yes. Should an employer be forced to pay someone who shows up late and leaves early, more money because they're being forced to? No.

brij2006 · May 2014

seahorse01 said:

The most upsetting part of all of this is knowing that you aren't the only person who thinks this way.

Most definitely not. I'm pretty liberal in comparison to many.

Apollo11235 · May 2014

brij2006 said:
Do I feel that the employer should reward good behavior or someone who goes above and beyond? Yes.
But they often don't.
Should an employer be forced to pay someone who shows up late and leaves early, more money because they're being forced to? No.
They're not. Those are valid reasons for firing someone.

The issue here is that we're not really talking about either of these groups of people. We're talking about people who are spending 40 hours a week reliably, satisfactorily doing jobs their employers value enough to create and maintain, and aren't being paid enough to support themselves.

brij2006 · May 2014

Apollo11235 said:

brij2006 said:
Do I feel that the employer should reward good behavior or someone who goes above and beyond? Yes.
But they often don't.
Should an employer be forced to pay someone who shows up late and leaves early, more money because they're being forced to? No.
They're not. Those are valid reasons for firing someone.

The issue here is that we're not really talking about either of these groups of people. We're talking about people who are spending 40 hours a week reliably, satisfactorily doing jobs their employers value enough to create and maintain, and aren't being paid enough to support themselves.

But within that equation there will be the people as I described too.

ETA: Also, if they fire that person then they will need to pay for unemployment benefits. Even if that employee deserved to be fired.

BruinsBabe33 · May 2014

So because where you live in a LCOL area that means everyone should be able to survive on that nation wide? Also, CEOs should make billions of dollars, but their employees should have to struggle?

If you had a choice would you pick a minimum wage job and be on assistance or a higher paying job assistance free? Most people would choose the latter.

You keep saying you're not sheltered, but you just made an argument that said where you're from people can do it. You are consistently contradicting yourself.

brij2006 · May 2014

No, not everyone should be able to survive on minimum wage, but shouldn't it be a reason why someone tries a little harder to find something different or work toward a promotion or earning more tips? CEO's make more than their employees because they carry all the risk. What risk does the employee have?

Also not saying that a CEO should treat their employees bad, but you get as good of employees as you pay for them.

lilliesandvino · May 2014

Holy fuck. Seriously. You have to be joking.

You're claiming that you need to watch your goddamn back b/c you're sooooooo liberal in you backwoods Limbaugh loving BFE town? Pull your head out of your ass, do some research on what the world is like for those who can't "get out of debt and have toy cars via the Dave Ramsey method" and get the hell over yourself.

It would at least be less disingenuous if you just came out and said that you think you're better than everyone else.

ETA: rage mixed with fat fingers = typos.

BackseatDriver · May 2014

So you believe that people who work hard should make a liveable wage? If so how do you enforce that without changing minimum wage?

brij2006 · May 2014

lilliesandvino said:

Holy fuck. Seriously. You have to be joking. You're claiming that you need to watch your goddamn back b/c you're sooooooo liberal in you backwoods Limbaugh loving BFE town? Pull your head out of your ass, do some research on what the world is like for those who can't "get out of debt and have toy cars via the Dave Ramsey method" and get the hell over yourself. It would at least be less disingenuous if you just came out and said that you think you're better than everyone else. ETA: rage mixed with fat fingers = typos.

Whew baby! We've been there before, we've known what that's like. That's the thing, people CAN do that. People CAN earn more. People CAN choose better lives for themselves. They have to choose to get their head out of their own asses and realize that maybe the reason they can't make it is the person looking at them in the mirror.

BruinsBabe33 · May 2014

SOME people can. Congrats you did it... Although, from the way you talk, I highly doubt that your situation was as bad as other people.

Also, you're argument is collapsing on itself. "You get as good of employees as you pay for" so CEOs should earn BILLIONS because they carry "all the risk" and employees have nothing to lose. How very wrong you are. Maybe financially the CEOs carry all the risk, but employee's lives rest on their salaries. If a CEO gets fired or loses their job they have something to fall back on in savings. A minimum wage employee loses their job and they are screwed. Minimum wage employees has no risk? Where do you get this stuff? The employees have ALL of the risk.

seahorse01 · May 2014

No.

abt8113 · May 2014

ETA: Also, if they fire that person then they will need to pay for unemployment benefits. Even if that employee deserved to be fired.

Brij sweetie, if you prove that the employee is not doing their job or is in the wrong, they will not receive employment benefits. You just have to document things. Unemployment is for people that are laid off or just terminated. Sure, somemay make it work, but it is a percentage of your pay and only for a limited time.

Also, as someone who works with individuals with mental health and substance use issues (also low income) please don't equate low pay/government benefits with alcoholics. It could be interpreted as really hurtful.

I think you have a good heart, and it is great that you help others, but more education is definitely needed.

BruinsBabe33 · May 2014

Also, stop stereotyping.

mrshall1027 · May 2014

Apollo11235 said:

brij2006 said:
Do I feel that the employer should reward good behavior or someone who goes above and beyond? Yes.
But they often don't.
Should an employer be forced to pay someone who shows up late and leaves early, more money because they're being forced to? No.
They're not. Those are valid reasons for firing someone.

The issue here is that we're not really talking about either of these groups of people. We're talking about people who are spending 40 hours a week reliably, satisfactorily doing jobs their employers value enough to create and maintain, and aren't being paid enough to support themselves.

Sorry @Apollo11235, but I've gotta call you out on this. You can't say that all employers don't do that. I'm a business owner and I strongly believe in compensating my employees for their good work. One of the guys I hired in August has received three 10% raises since he's been here. Now, there's another employee of mine that is doing the bare minimum so he hasn't gotten a raise and is on his way out the door if he doesn't take this last warning he just received to heart.

Also, I have to admit that my employees probably work harder than I do, but you know what? I started this company over 10 years ago, worked my ass off barely making enough to pay my bills, had to move in with my parents and almost had to close the company 3 separate times. So, yeah, sorry but I'm going to pay myself for all my hard work.

CincodeMayoLove · May 2014

brij2006 said:

lilliesandvino said:

Holy fuck. Seriously. You have to be joking.

You're claiming that you need to watch your goddamn back b/c you're sooooooo liberal in you backwoods Limbaugh loving BFE town? Pull your head out of your ass, do some research on what the world is like for those who can't "get out of debt and have toy cars via the Dave Ramsey method" and get the hell over yourself.

It would at least be less disingenuous if you just came out and said that you think you're better than everyone else.

ETA: rage mixed with fat fingers = typos.

Whew baby! We've been there before, we've known what that's like. That's the thing, people CAN do that. People CAN earn more. People CAN choose better lives for themselves. They have to choose to get their head out of their own asses and realize that maybe the reason they can't make it is the person looking at them in the mirror.

Some people can do that. Some people. Please refer back to my precious posts. If I wouldn't have gotten student loans (which I'm no where CLOSE to paying off even with my doctorate degree) or credit cards, we wouldn't have eaten for 3 years. And we were blessed to have family that helped us when we needed some months too. Rage. This went from me getting that you want a discussion to remembering your ignorance that is continuing to fuel your ridiculous fire.

KonaCoffeeBean · May 2014

ystaalenburg said:

Apollo11235 said:

brij2006 said:
Do I feel that the employer should reward good behavior or someone who goes above and beyond? Yes.
But they often don't.
Should an employer be forced to pay someone who shows up late and leaves early, more money because they're being forced to? No.
They're not. Those are valid reasons for firing someone.

The issue here is that we're not really talking about either of these groups of people. We're talking about people who are spending 40 hours a week reliably, satisfactorily doing jobs their employers value enough to create and maintain, and aren't being paid enough to support themselves.

Sorry @Apollo11235, but I've gotta call you out on this. You can't say that all employers don't do that. I'm a business owner and I strongly believe in compensating my employees for their good work. One of the guys I hired in August has received three 10% raises since he's been here. Now, there's another employee of mine that is doing the bare minimum so he hasn't gotten a raise and is on his way out the door if he doesn't take this last warning he just received to heart.

Also, I have to admit that my employees probably work harder than I do, but you know what? I started this company over 10 years ago, worked my ass off barely making enough to pay my bills, had to move in with my parents and almost had to close the company 3 separate times. So, yeah, sorry but I'm going to pay myself for all my hard work.

@ystaalenburg, That is really awesome. There are a lot of employers who do not acknowledge or reward the contribution of their employees, and it really sucks to be in an employment situation like that. I wish more businesses would follow your example.

cinderin · May 2014

1. You are talking about primaries - not a small election (what is a small election?)

2. I have conflicting views on the minimum wage myself. Based on my experiences as an employee and working for a small business.

3. I am in Washington state and our minimum wage is almost $10 already (it goes up each year) and the city of Seattle is going to up the minimum to $15.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

I worked for a while in HR (I am still in HR) for a smallish family owned retail company.

They ran a number of stores and paid above minimum wage, though not significantly above minimum wage (to start - after a couple years or with a promotion it was much more money). And they offered benefits to FT people (and they had mostly FT retail employees).

Anyway, the way that the stores worked was that the manager had a budget for labor. A dollar amount.

So if minimum wage goes to $15, then that manager is not going to be able to give the employees there very many hours. This will reduce the number of employees and/or reduce people from 40 hours to 20 or 30. Which will mean less people working and less hours for those who do work. And possibly make some employees not eligible for benefits.

Maybe it will work out - maybe those with reduced hours can get a second job somewhere else and make up the difference. Maybe those who loose their jobs will find other work, maybe those who loose their benefits will have enough money to buy their own benefits on the exchange. I don't know. But maybe it will hurt people as well.

I do think some businesses will close, others will automate jobs (checkout at the grocery store anyone?). And I think there will be less hours/jobs overall for unskilled labor. Just my guess.

inyouruterus · May 2014

Perhaps I missed it....has anyone here told Brij she's white yet? BEING WHITE IS SO AWESOME.

cinderin · May 2014

inyouruterus said:
Perhaps I missed it....has anyone here told Brij she's white yet? BEING WHITE IS SO AWESOME.

Until you get a sunburn.

Aimothy · May 2014

inyouruterus · May 2014

cinderin said:

inyouruterus said:
Perhaps I missed it....has anyone here told Brij she's white yet? BEING WHITE IS SO AWESOME.
Until you get a sunburn.

Staying on topic, there are lots of economic theories that counter the theories you've listed above. Aside from theory, historically, raises in the minimum wage have resulted in increases in jobs, not the other way around (in the late 90s). So, just something to think about.

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