To quote MCD - gender semantics discussion

SocialWorker2B · March 2011

kass09:
SocialWorker2B:

lneuner09:
wow, this could have been a really cool and interesting discussion under different circumstances and presented in a different manner. Why did you have to go and ruin it?
I agree.
The problem is I didn't think it WOULD be a discussion. C'mon, you're a social work, you know all this stuff is true.
I thought EVERYONE knew it was true since it was drilled into me all through school. It is introduced on day one of any psych, soc, anthro, WS, fem, etc classes.
I was simply correcting the misuse of a word. I was NOT looking for a debate/discussion.
Really? Because I'm pretty sure your original post states: So, what do people think? Does everyone know that gender and sex are two very different things or is this a new concept for most?
Sounds like the opening for a debate/discussion was there. And, as Nooner pointed out, a rational, adult discussion would have been welcome. But, I am pretty sure you were only trying to start trouble....which is where you always screw yourself.

I was talking about my post in tara's thread on her preg/cervix. I wasn't trying to start a debate.

With this thread, I was looking for people's thoughts - like how they came to knew about the differences in gender and sex.

And, as we've already established, I was incorrect in assuming everyone already knew this.

MBMcC421 · March 2011

SocialWorker2B:
MBMcC421:
SocialWorker2B:
lneuner09:

Sorry, couldn't handle giant quote thread

But see, that's where you are also very narrow minded. I know that sex =/= gender, but I also know that like 75% of the world uses them interchangably. And when someone uses gender when they mean sex, I take it for what it's worth and not look like as ass by correcting them.

Okay, yes, you know that they're different and you know that people don't know that - you don't think it's your responsibility (not as a social worker, but as a person) to educate people? Lack of education is what leads to things like killing a gay high school student or raping a pre op patient.

So using "gender" and "sex" interchangeably makes one a threat to society? Awesome...

Yes. By continuing on, being ignorant of the true definitions of these words, you are allowing these myths to continue on.

And that's the funny part. That you honestly think I'm ignorant of the definitions. Believe me, I'm not. I'm just trying to tell you that you need to chill out and stop getting up everyone's arse. No, I might not have an official undergraduate degree, but the education I do have, in addition to my life experiences, it's all enough for me to know when to let something go and when to make an issue out of it.

This whole thread is an example that any education in the world will not train you enough to muster the social skills needed to have a debate sans fallacy.

SocialWorker2B · March 2011

kass09:
SocialWorker2B:

And, MB?
Ummmm, the dictionary you mentioned............well, um, it agrees that sex and gender are two different things.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gender
It says how gender are the traits society generally associated with sex.
HAHAHA.
Not that I need a dictionary since my years of undergraduate work have told me, over and over again, that gender =/= sex.
Real mature

Well, i was simply responding in the manner that MB had been addressing me.

You get what you give.

SocialWorker2B · March 2011

MBMcC421:
SocialWorker2B:
MBMcC421:
SocialWorker2B:
lneuner09:

Sorry, couldn't handle giant quote thread
But see, that's where you are also very narrow minded. I know that sex =/= gender, but I also know that like 75% of the world uses them interchangably. And when someone uses gender when they mean sex, I take it for what it's worth and not look like as ass by correcting them.
Okay, yes, you know that they're different and you know that people don't know that - you don't think it's your responsibility (not as a social worker, but as a person) to educate people? Lack of education is what leads to things like killing a gay high school student or raping a pre op patient.
So using "gender" and "sex" interchangeably makes one a threat to society? Awesome...
Yes. By continuing on, being ignorant of the true definitions of these words, you are allowing these myths to continue on.
And that's the funny part. That you honestly think I'm ignorant of the definitions. Believe me, I'm not. I'm just trying to tell you that you need to chill out and stop getting up everyone's arse. No, I might not have an official undergraduate degree, but the education I do have, in addition to my life experiences, it's all enough for me to know when to let something go and when to make an issue out of it.
This whole thread is an example that any education in the world will not train you enough to muster the social skills needed to have a debate sans fallacy.

I don't mean education, as in college. I mean education, as in life education.

I could have had a debate, if I was expecting people to think differently than me. I didn't and that was my mistake - again, as we've established a million times by now.

SocialWorker2B · March 2011

tarmar81:
Well damn, look what I started. And I used the term "sex" in my post, not "gender" but if you were jumping on someone else for interchanging the words (I didn't notice any specifics last time I read the thread), who the fluck cares?!?! People interchange those words all the time; I really don't think that's causing the problem with society's views towards transgendered individuals.
SW2B, if you went on any of The Bump boards, you'd see the use of "gender" instead of "sex" ALL the freaking time. Some people do correct other posters, but it never turns into this big of a debate. No one's threatening society here. I was an English and linguistics major and I'm a huge grammar Nazi (who is prone to all kinds of typos) and I'm not particularly bothered by this issue at all. There are far worse things to worry about impacting society than switching around "sex" and "gender."

You're wrong. Simple as that.

It is allowing the miseducation surrounding transgendered individuals to continue on. That breeds discrimination which breeds hate.

I don't go on the bump and I would correct people, however, you're right - it doesn't need to turn into a huge debate.

And, I don't know if you used it, I was referring to someone else but I was mainly saying - 'in general.'

Mrs. Mo · March 2011

SocialWorker2B:

Yes, I acknowledge that my delivery killed the prospect of a debate.

However, the point you're missing is that I didn't think my comment was going to lead for a debate so I wasn't trying to set one up.

I do apologize for assuming. Like I said, in my life, it's common knowledge. I would be open to a debate now. Perhaps in a new post.

See, this is the thing you need to understand. Just because it is common knowledge in your life ( ie field), doesn't mean it is for everyone else's. I'm sure that MB could throw out some legal terms/situations that is commone knowledge for her but you had no clue about (or thought differently of). Same for the rest of us. I forget who said it but this is why you come off as the "all knowing social worker." You have to realize that we all studied different things and/or have different fields of expertise. We can easily have an honset and thought out discussion but it would be disrespectful for someone to shove things into others faces just because it wasn't something they were fully aware of.

SocialWorker2B · March 2011

Mrs. Mo:
SocialWorker2B:

Yes, I acknowledge that my delivery killed the prospect of a debate.
However, the point you're missing is that I didn't think my comment was going to lead for a debate so I wasn't trying to set one up.
I do apologize for assuming. Like I said, in my life, it's common knowledge. I would be open to a debate now. Perhaps in a new post.
See, this is the thing you need to understand. Just because it is common knowledge in your life ( ie field), doesn't mean it is for everyone else's. I'm sure that MB could throw out some legal terms/situations that is commone knowledge for her but you had no clue about (or thought differently of). Same for the rest of us. I forget who said it but this is why you come off as the "all knowing social worker." You have to realize that we all studied different things and/or have different fields of expertise. We can easily have an honset and thought out discussion but it would be disrespectful for someone to shove things into others faces just because it wasn't something they were fully aware of.

You're making my point. If I used a legal term incorrectly, I would EXPECT MB to correct me.

SocialWorker2B · March 2011

lneuner09:
SocialWorker2B:
lneuner09:

Sorry, couldn't handle giant quote thread
But see, that's where you are also very narrow minded. I know that sex =/= gender, but I also know that like 75% of the world uses them interchangably. And when someone uses gender when they mean sex, I take it for what it's worth and not look like as ass by correcting them.
I did NOT try to make anyone look like an ass with my OP about all this. It was only after MB looked at the evidence and still thought she was wife, that I was astounded.
Okay, yes, you know that they're different and you know that people don't know that - you don't think it's your responsibility (not as a social worker, but as a person) to educate people? Lack of education is what leads to things like killing a gay high school student or raping a pre op patient.
I didn't say you made the OP look like an ass, I meant you made yourself look like an ass.
And yes, to an extent it is my responsibility to correct misconceptions like this. I deal with it every day with mental health and addiction stigmas. At the same time, I want to behave in socially appropriate manners. And there are times and places when that it more important than my social responsbility. You basic cost-benefit analysis. It was more important to be supportive to Tara. Same if I'm having a conversation at a cocktail party with a bunch of strangers. I'm not going to choose that avenue to "educate the world!" It's not appropriate.

I also didn't say anything about 'an OP.' I said, 'in the OP,' i.e. MY OP.

I don't think ANYTHING is more important than my responsibility to educate others.

tarmar81 · March 2011

SocialWorker2B:
tarmar81:
Well damn, look what I started. And I used the term "sex" in my post, not "gender" but if you were jumping on someone else for interchanging the words (I didn't notice any specifics last time I read the thread), who the fluck cares?!?! People interchange those words all the time; I really don't think that's causing the problem with society's views towards transgendered individuals.
SW2B, if you went on any of The Bump boards, you'd see the use of "gender" instead of "sex" ALL the freaking time. Some people do correct other posters, but it never turns into this big of a debate. No one's threatening society here. I was an English and linguistics major and I'm a huge grammar Nazi (who is prone to all kinds of typos) and I'm not particularly bothered by this issue at all. There are far worse things to worry about impacting society than switching around "sex" and "gender."
You're wrong. Simple as that.
It is allowing the miseducation surrounding transgendered individuals to continue on. That breeds discrimination which breeds hate.
I don't go on the bump and I would correct people, however, you're right - it doesn't need to turn into a huge debate.
And, I don't know if you used it, I was referring to someone else but I was mainly saying - 'in general.'

This is why people can't stand your posts. Telling people "You're wrong," is not the way to look favorable in a debate or to make a point. It makes you look elitist and as if you know everything while all other opinions are invalid. Every time an argument comes up, the entire board has a problem with your comments. That should tell you something.

amelianguy · March 2011

SocialWorker2B:
Amelia -
See, I disagree that the wife is to support the husband while the husband supports the church/christ.
I support my husband in his career and my husband supports me in my work and school.
That's how it should be, I think.

I disagree with certain aspects of Christianity as well, which is why I no longer attend church. But, I had it shoved down my throat for 20 years, so I can discuss it until the cows come home. Moo.

SocialWorker2B · March 2011

Tarmar, I see what you're saying - I do.

However, it is more important for people to know that using sex and gender DOES have disastrous consequences than for them to like me.

SocialWorker2B · March 2011

amelianguy:
SocialWorker2B:
Amelia -
See, I disagree that the wife is to support the husband while the husband supports the church/christ.
I support my husband in his career and my husband supports me in my work and school.
That's how it should be, I think.
I disagree with certain aspects of Christianity as well, which is why I no longer attend church. But, I had it shoved down my throat for 20 years, so I can discuss it until the cows come home. Moo.

So, are you referring to the old testament?

And, Smo is referring to the new testament?

And, that's the difference?

I don't know that much about the bible's specifics.

MBMcC421 · March 2011

SocialWorker2B:

However, it is more important for people to know that using sex and gender DOES have disastrous consequences than for them to like me.

NO. IT. DOESN'T.

At least not on this board.

Get over it already. It's not your life mission to groom us all to think like you.

Dear gods...

lneuner09 · March 2011

SocialWorker2B:

I don't think ANYTHING is more important than my responsibility to educate others.

clearly. This is why you have the social skills of a wet mop. You have no idea when it is socially appropriate to provide education, which is why you're constantly offending people.

And even if it IS a socially appropriate situation, you deliver it in such a manner that it still offends people.

SocialWorker2B · March 2011

lneuner09:
SocialWorker2B:

I don't think ANYTHING is more important than my responsibility to educate others.
clearly. This is why you have the social skills of a wet mop. You have no idea when it is socially appropriate to provide education, which is why you're constantly offending people.
And even if it IS a socially appropriate situation, you deliver it in such a manner that it still offends people.

I deliver it that way on here, since it doesn't matter enough to me to take the time to deliver it in a socially approriate way.

95% of the time, it's appropriate to do so, in my life.

The other 5% of the time, I do it in the most appropriate way possible - yes, people don't often like it but oh well.

steeser03 · March 2011

i cannot get over the fact that just because MB and Tara and KelKlump and myself and whoever else, use sex and gender interchangebly that means we will go out and kill gay high school students and rape pre-op transgender patients.

literally. you made me LOL.

SocialWorker2B · March 2011

MBMcC421:
SocialWorker2B:

However, it is more important for people to know that using sex and gender DOES have disastrous consequences than for them to like me.
NO. IT. DOESN'T.
At least not on this board.
Get over it already. It's not your life mission to groom us to all think like you.
Dear gods...

This board is real life.

The way you guys think about gender - sex on here is also the way you think about it in real life. Therefore, if I can enlighten someone on here, they will probably go enlighten someone else in their life and so on and so on.

SO YES IT DOES.

MBMcC421 · March 2011

steeser03:

i cannot get over the fact that just because MB and Tara and KelKlump and myself and whoever else, use sex and gender interchangebly that means we will go out and kill gay high school students and rape pre-op transgender patients.

literally. you made me LOL.

I know right? Clearly it is from our lack of education that will never amount to hers...

Mrs. Mo · March 2011

SocialWorker2B:
Mrs. Mo:
SocialWorker2B:

Yes, I acknowledge that my delivery killed the prospect of a debate.

However, the point you're missing is that I didn't think my comment was going to lead for a debate so I wasn't trying to set one up.

I do apologize for assuming. Like I said, in my life, it's common knowledge. I would be open to a debate now. Perhaps in a new post.

See, this is the thing you need to understand. Just because it is common knowledge in your life ( ie field), doesn't mean it is for everyone else's. I'm sure that MB could throw out some legal terms/situations that is commone knowledge for her but you had no clue about (or thought differently of). Same for the rest of us. I forget who said it but this is why you come off as the "all knowing social worker." You have to realize that we all studied different things and/or have different fields of expertise. We can easily have an honset and thought out discussion but it would be disrespectful for someone to shove things into others faces just because it wasn't something they were fully aware of.

You're making my point. If I used a legal term incorrectly, I would EXPECT MB to correct me.

Actually, no I'm not. I know that MB has enough social skills/class to know when is the proper time & place to correct someone. Just as Neuner said, you wouldn't start a discussion like this at a party just like you shouldn't in a post where someone needs support. Also, the way you worded the OP with "Does everyone know that gender and sex are two different things?" came off as very condescending. If you wanted a proper discussion, you should have worded it more in a non-threatening/call-out way.

SocialWorker2B · March 2011

steeser03:
i cannot get over the fact that just because MB and Tara and KelKlump and myself and whoever else, use sex and gender interchangebly that means we will go out and kill gay high school students and rape pre-op transgender patients.
literally. you made me LOL.

Hopefully, you won't.

But, as I have explained many times already -

ignorance leads to discrimination which, almost always, leads to hate.

MBMcC421 · March 2011

SocialWorker2B:
steeser03:

i cannot get over the fact that just because MB and Tara and KelKlump and myself and whoever else, use sex and gender interchangebly that means we will go out and kill gay high school students and rape pre-op transgender patients.

literally. you made me LOL.

Hopefully, you won't.

But, as I have explained many times already -

ignorance leads to discrimination which, almost always, leads to hate.

Thanks, Yoda.

SocialWorker2B · March 2011

Mrs. Mo:
SocialWorker2B:
Mrs. Mo:
SocialWorker2B:

Yes, I acknowledge that my delivery killed the prospect of a debate.
However, the point you're missing is that I didn't think my comment was going to lead for a debate so I wasn't trying to set one up.
I do apologize for assuming. Like I said, in my life, it's common knowledge. I would be open to a debate now. Perhaps in a new post.
See, this is the thing you need to understand. Just because it is common knowledge in your life ( ie field), doesn't mean it is for everyone else's. I'm sure that MB could throw out some legal terms/situations that is commone knowledge for her but you had no clue about (or thought differently of). Same for the rest of us. I forget who said it but this is why you come off as the "all knowing social worker." You have to realize that we all studied different things and/or have different fields of expertise. We can easily have an honset and thought out discussion but it would be disrespectful for someone to shove things into others faces just because it wasn't something they were fully aware of.
You're making my point. If I used a legal term incorrectly, I would EXPECT MB to correct me.
Actually, no I'm not. I know that MB has enough social class to know when is the proper time & place to correct someone. Just as Neuner said, you wouldn't start a discussion like this at a party just like you shouldn't in a post where someone needs support. Also, the way you worded the OP with "Does everyone know that gender and sex are two different things?" came off as very condescending. If you wanted a proper discussion, you should have worded it more in a non-threatening/call-out way.

I already apologized for doing it in this post. So, let that go.

And, yes, I could have worded it better - I think I was still so surprised. I was also thinking that maybe it was only MB and everyone else did know.

SocialWorker2B · March 2011

MBMcC421:
SocialWorker2B:
steeser03:

i cannot get over the fact that just because MB and Tara and KelKlump and myself and whoever else, use sex and gender interchangebly that means we will go out and kill gay high school students and rape pre-op transgender patients.
literally. you made me LOL.
Hopefully, you won't.
But, as I have explained many times already -
ignorance leads to discrimination which, almost always, leads to hate.
Thanks, Yoda.

You're welcome.

MBMcC421 · March 2011

SocialWorker2B:
Mrs. Mo:
You're making my point. If I used a legal term incorrectly, I would EXPECT MB to correct me.

Actually, no I'm not. I know that MB has enough social class to know when is the proper time & place to correct someone. Just as Neuner said, you wouldn't start a discussion like this at a party just like you shouldn't in a post where someone needs support. Also, the way you worded the OP with "Does everyone know that gender and sex are two different things?" came off as very condescending. If you wanted a proper discussion, you should have worded it more in a non-threatening/call-out way.

It's true. Yes

amelianguy · March 2011

SocialWorker2B:
amelianguy:
SocialWorker2B:
Amelia -
See, I disagree that the wife is to support the husband while the husband supports the church/christ.
I support my husband in his career and my husband supports me in my work and school.
That's how it should be, I think.
I disagree with certain aspects of Christianity as well, which is why I no longer attend church. But, I had it shoved down my throat for 20 years, so I can discuss it until the cows come home. Moo.
So, are you referring to the old testament?
And, Smo is referring to the new testament?
And, that's the difference?
I don't know that much about the bible's specifics.

Precisely. I was referring to old testament law, Smo was referring to new testament law. A certain sect of Christianity believes that the old laws (old testament) has passed away, and is only there for reference. They believe that the new testament is the new "guidelines", so to speak. I would venture to say that Smo probably belongs to one of these denominations. Nothing wrong with that, of course.

Others believe that the entire bible should be followed. It really depends on what denomination you take your teachings from.

SocialWorker2B · March 2011

amelianguy:
SocialWorker2B:
amelianguy:
SocialWorker2B:
Amelia -
See, I disagree that the wife is to support the husband while the husband supports the church/christ.
I support my husband in his career and my husband supports me in my work and school.
That's how it should be, I think.
I disagree with certain aspects of Christianity as well, which is why I no longer attend church. But, I had it shoved down my throat for 20 years, so I can discuss it until the cows come home. Moo.
So, are you referring to the old testament?
And, Smo is referring to the new testament?
And, that's the difference?
I don't know that much about the bible's specifics.
Precisely. I was referring to old testament law, Smo was referring to new testament law. A certain sect of Christianity believes that the old laws (old testament) has passed away, and is only there for reference. They believe that the new testament is the new "guidelines", so to speak. I would venture to say that Smo probably belongs to one of these denominations. Nothing wrong with that, of course.

Others believe that the entire bible should be followed. It really depends on what denomination you take your teachings from.

Hmmm, very interesting.

This intrigues me - I am going to do more research on this.

Thanks for the jumping off point!

amelianguy · March 2011

MBMcC421:
SocialWorker2B:
steeser03:

i cannot get over the fact that just because MB and Tara and KelKlump and myself and whoever else, use sex and gender interchangebly that means we will go out and kill gay high school students and rape pre-op transgender patients.

literally. you made me LOL.

Hopefully, you won't.

But, as I have explained many times already -

ignorance leads to discrimination which, almost always, leads to hate.

Thanks, Yoda.

Do or do not, there is no try.

MBMcC421 · March 2011

SocialWorker2B:

And, yes, I could have worded it better - I think I was still so surprised. I was also thinking that maybe it was only MB and everyone else did know.

.... seriously? Confused

SocialWorker2B · March 2011

MBMcC421:
SocialWorker2B:
And, yes, I could have worded it better - I think I was still so surprised. I was also thinking that maybe it was only MB and everyone else did know.
.... seriously?

As I said, I thought everyone knew.

When you didn't knew.......well, you know my opinion of you.........I thought everyone else did.

MBMcC421 · March 2011

amelianguy:
MBMcC421:
SocialWorker2B:
steeser03:

i cannot get over the fact that just because MB and Tara and KelKlump and myself and whoever else, use sex and gender interchangebly that means we will go out and kill gay high school students and rape pre-op transgender patients.

literally. you made me LOL.

Hopefully, you won't.

But, as I have explained many times already -

ignorance leads to discrimination which, almost always, leads to hate.

Thanks, Yoda.

Do or do not, there is no try.

The Force is strong in this one.

To quote MCD - gender semantics discussion

Re: To quote MCD - gender semantics discussion

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