If you have had an abortion, please come in.....

j_jaye · February 2012

So if someone uses a forum to ask what it's like to kill somebody else, you won't object? You'll need to just give your personal experience and support their choice.

There are actually forums that do exist that discuss such thing- especially for people who have killed others especially in forced circumstances such as war, assisted suicide, accidents etc. The fact was that the OP didn't ask a question remotely like that she was asking about a procedure and what to expect.

All the crap about forcing a woman to carry out a pregnancy belies a belief that anyone who knows children have a right to live is oppressive of women. Asking that a woman give her child life is the furthest thing from oppressive. What if you didn't fit my definition of a person and I started complaining that our government is oppressive to prohibit me from killing you (after all, you are kind of inconvenient for me )? I'm not threatening, so please don't take it that way, I'm just following your logic here.

I woud say that is your right to believe that (and guess what that does and has happened in the world) and I would have the right to believe that you are misguided and would campaign to ensure that society as a whole does not follow such beliefs (much akin to the likes of the civil rights movement!). If you were to kill me then you would make a choice to break the law and take a life(lets hope nothing bad happens to me in the months to come or you might get a knock at the door!

This is a beautiful example of circular reasoning.

As i said in my above post this is rights granted to all humans from birth as set out in the universal charter of human rights.

There is no evidence that she conceived and aborted children. Jesus accepted people who were considered to be unsavory in society, but in no way condoned the continuation of their lifestyle, and certainly not abortion.

But it could be argued that there is no evidence to she did not! I didn't ask you to condone anyones lifestyle- you may believe what you will, but Jesus accepted people with different beliefs and only preached to those who wanted to hear what he has to say.

That's why I didn't directly embed the photo. No one was being forced to click on it. If you are upset by the fact that the unborn are people, that is your problem, not mine.

But there was no need to put that link in at all- it did not pertain to the OP's question on what it was like to have an abortion or showed her an ounce of support. And you said it was a picture of a baby- so someone who doesn't share the belief that an embryo is a baby could have opened it up expecting a picture of a beautiful bouncing baby yet were shown that picture. Maybe you should have full disclosed what the picture was of instead of saying baby- a whatever week old fetus.

mollybloom · February 2012

one more makes four:
shelovesfrodo:

j_jaye:

So basically the case is this: You believe

That asking a woman to reconsider an abortion is shoving ideals and beliefs down her throat.

That children are of no greater value than animals, and that it is perfectly fine to kill them depending on whether they are "wanted" or not, and which side of their mother's abdominal wall they are currently on.

That because there have been some acts of atrocity in the name of "Christianity," all people who claim to be Christian are thereby oppressive woman-haters.

That acts of racism and genocide are choices that should be respected by everyone, regardless of anything else.

In guilt by association.
I believe:

That the spending millions of nonnegotiable tax dollars on the slaughter of innocent children is shoving ideals and beliefs down my throat.

That every human being, both born and unborn, is imbued with a soul and singular characteristics, which sets us apart from animals as unique and non-expendable. Also that no one has the right to define another person as unwanted, just because they have no voice themselves.

That the wrong committed by some does not condemn the group as a whole.

That acts of racism and genocide are not to be respected in any way.

That association should never be charged as guilty.
It's obvious that I'm not going to convince you, but that's not what I came on here for anyway. I am hoping that the mother of this child will choose to let him or her live. By the way, if anyone wants to see a picture of what the person who's life is in question looks like, you can. Since I know many people are often offended by embedded pictures, I've just pasted the link. Nothing graphic, just a baby.

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j340/shelovesfrodo/embryo-photo-48-days-7-weeks.jpg

This. Exactly this.

Since it was my post that spurred the whole egg debate, I will respond. No, I am not a vegan. I don't value animal life above human life. If you want to throw Christianity into this, God gave people animals to sustain human life. Yet today's society is clearly more invested in saving animals than humans. How many "Save the Whales and Polar Bears" campaigns are there? People become outraged when animals are abused, neglected, becoming extinct, and so on - and rightly so. It's terrible. But we applaud women who choose to kill their babies because it's her "right" to do so. I will never understand this.

Also, to say that Christians have killed others in the name of God is true . . . in the Old Testament when God commanded them to do so.

And I can't even BEGIN to describe how stunned I am to hear anyone defend Hitler's actions as his "right" to murder millions of people. That has got to be one of the most ignorant, insensitive, and heinous things I've read here. You seriously can't believe that, right? Maybe you do . . .

Oh honey, history is your friend. Go read a few books on the history of Christianity. It may help you when you try to make yourself look smart in arguments with girls that are your intellectual superior.

What you and the frodo chick fail to realize is that you are wasting your time. I get that this thread gives you a forum on which you can expound your nonsense, and people like you love to pound your self-righteous b.s. into others...but, this is a topic that people have strong feelings for. You know that you are not going to change anyone's mind and the OP clearly did not address you. So, you responded for one of two reasons

1) You wanted to start something with people

or (and what I think is the reason)

2) You are just one of those people that thinks that their way is the right way and that everyone should know your amazing and insightful opinion and how much better you are than everyone else.

one more makes four · February 2012

j_jaye:

I repeat I never condoned Hitler's actions or said it was his right to kill people- I said it was a choice he made and that it was every humans right to have freedom to make choices. As I said even though there are laws people still choose criminal behaviour and they have to live with those consequences. Children choose to be naughty, individuals choose whether they support fair trade or not , individuakls choose to follow a certain religion etc etc etc.

And again it is you right to believe what you like but it is not your right to tell others what to believe. Maybe you should read the universal declaration of human rights so you can understand that it is everyones right to choose their beliefs and actions.

And yes again you have the right to believe whatever you like- even that God gave animals to humans for sustance but it doesn't mean that I or anyone else has to believe that. As I said if you want change then take positive steps towards change rather than harassing an individual.

This is exactly what you said:

"Have people not forgiven that and understand that the times and thinking were different when those historical events occurred. As were the times
and thinking through other not so great times in history like Hitler?s reign. He made choices based on his belief system and whilst people do not have to agree with it, they should respect that it was his choice to make. I am not debating the rights or wrongs of the choice/course of action, just that it is an individual?s choice to decide what they do. Even though there are laws people choose to break."

I DO NOT have to respect the decision Hitler made to massacre millions of people. Yes, he made that choice. And it was a horrendous, evil choice. To respect it would be deplorable.

No one spoke up to defend the Jew, the handicapped, the homosexual, and so on when they were being systematically murdered until it was too late. Yet I think we can agree that there are very few people today who believe what he did was just. If you want to bring the Holocaust up as an example of choice, then let's make the comparison to the topic at hand. How many millions of innocent lives - the unborn - are going to be murdered before the world wakes up and says, "Enough"?

j_jaye · February 2012

This is exactly what you said:

"Have people not forgiven that and understand that the times and thinking were different when those historical events occurred. As were the times
and thinking through other not so great times in history like Hitler?s reign. He made choices based on his belief system and whilst people do not have to agree with it, they should respect that it was his choice to make. I am not debating the rights or wrongs of the choice/course of action, just that it is an individual?s choice to decide what they do. Even though there are laws people choose to break."

I DO NOT have to respect the decision Hitler made to massacre millions of people. Yes, he made that choice. And it was a horrendous, evil choice. To respect it would be deplorable. Your correct as I have said numerous times now you do not have to respect the actions/decision that Hiltler made but you have to respect that it was his choice to make. Can you really not see the difference?

No one spoke up to defend the Jew, the handicapped, the homosexual, and so on when they were being systematically murdered until it was too late. -I would argue that many people actually did defend the Jews and so on through the underground resistance movement that help many Jews and so on to escape the Nazi regime.

Yet I think we can agree that there are very few people today who believe what he did was just. And thats the word- did- an action not a belief. He made a choice/course of action based on his beliefs the same way a prolifer according to their beliefs shot dead a doctor who proformed abortions or a president decides to drop a H bomb on a country killing innocent people. They were all free to make a choice and to face the consequences of that choice.

If you want to bring the Holocaust up as an example of choice, then let's make the comparison to the topic at hand. How many millions of innocent lives - the unborn - are going to be murdered before the world wakes up and says, "Enough"?

But that is your belief, you choose to believe this and others do not. Some people do not believe that abortion is murder for various reasons- it is their choice to believe that.

I am not going to comment again because clearly you will never respect someones right to believe something different which is really sad for you because you will spend your life angry over others peoples choices which you have no control over.

shelovesfrodo · March 2012

mollybloom:
Oh honey, history is your friend. Go read a few books on the history of Christianity. It may help you when you try to make yourself look smart in arguments with girls that are your intellectual superior.

What you and the frodo chick fail to realize is that you are wasting your time. I get that this thread gives you a forum on which you can expound your nonsense, and people like you love to pound your self-righteous b.s. into others...but, this is a topic that people have strong feelings for. You know that you are not going to change anyone's mind and the OP clearly did not address you. So, you responded for one of two reasons

1) You wanted to start something with people

or (and what I think is the reason)

2) You are just one of those people that thinks that their way is the right way and that everyone should know your amazing and insightful opinion and how much better you are than everyone else.

Since you're so astute and obviously better than us simple-minded church mice, maybe you should read a few books on the history of paganism and humanism.

No one is being pounded with self-righteous b.s. We are just saying that a scientifically correct definition of human life does not preclude that which is in the womb, and that destroying it is murder. Whether it is wanted or not is beside the point.

For all the talk of tolerance and respect, you people have let slip one undeniable fact: you are very tolerant- until you encounter something or someone contradictory to the way you want to feel about yourself and the world around you, in which case you fight it tooth and nail.

If I had a pregnant dog that I wanted spayed, and had her puppies- pardon me - fetal tissue, chemically burned, cut apart piece by piece, and thrown away with other medical waste, (which is legal where I live) imagine the outcry that would be raised by anyone who heard of it. Someone would probably even make an FB page and write a petition stating how evil and disgusting I was. I could turn right around and say that they were disrespecting my precious right to torture and kill innocent animals.

Maybe I am wasting my time, but to not object to the act of abortion is not an option for me. Anyone who can honestly say that an unborn baby is not a person is either pathetically ignorant, or has killed their conscience.

mollybloom · March 2012

shelovesfrodo:
mollybloom:

Oh honey, history is your friend. Go read a few books on the history of Christianity. It may help you when you try to make yourself look smart in arguments with girls that are your intellectual superior.

What you and the frodo chick fail to realize is that you are wasting your time. I get that this thread gives you a forum on which you can expound your nonsense, and people like you love to pound your self-righteous b.s. into others...but, this is a topic that people have strong feelings for. You know that you are not going to change anyone's mind and the OP clearly did not address you. So, you responded for one of two reasons

1) You wanted to start something with people

or (and what I think is the reason)

2) You are just one of those people that thinks that their way is the right way and that everyone should know your amazing and insightful opinion and how much better you are than everyone else.

Since you're so astute and obviously better than us simple-minded church mice, maybe you should read a few books on the history of paganism and humanism.

Why?

No one is being pounded with self-righteous b.s. We are just saying that a scientifically correct definition of human life does not preclude that which is in the womb, and that destroying it is murder. Whether it is wanted or not is beside the point.

I am very grateful that the majority of Americans and the courts realize the error of your way of thinking.

For all the talk of tolerance and respect, you people have let slip one undeniable fact: you are very tolerant- until you encounter something or someone contradictory to the way you want to feel about yourself and the world around you, in which case you fight it tooth and nail.

Oh please! You came into a thread that did not ask for your anti-choice retoric. She wanted support for the difficult decision she is facing. And you and your cronies took the oppurtunity to spout your crap. Why are you people not tolerated? Because people don't have the sense to mind your own damn business.

If I had a pregnant dog that I wanted spayed, and had her puppies- pardon me - fetal tissue, chemically burned, cut apart piece by piece, and thrown away with other medical waste, (which is legal where I live) imagine the outcry that would be raised by anyone who heard of it. Someone would probably even make an FB page and write a petition stating how evil and disgusting I was. I could turn right around and say that they were disrespecting my precious right to torture and kill innocent animals.

Abortion is legal, in case you didn't know.

Maybe I am wasting my time, but to not object to the act of abortion is not an option for me. Anyone who can honestly say that an unborn baby is not a person is either pathetically ignorant, or has killed their conscience

So says the Christian girl that ignores the bible's teaching on judging others. Aren't you typical to pick and choose what fits into your life?

I guess Rick Santorum is getting your vote, eh?

.

shelovesfrodo · March 2012

mollybloom:
shelovesfrodo:
mollybloom:

Oh honey, history is your friend. Go read a few books on the history of Christianity. It may help you when you try to make yourself look smart in arguments with girls that are your intellectual superior.

What you and the frodo chick fail to realize is that you are wasting your time. I get that this thread gives you a forum on which you can expound your nonsense, and people like you love to pound your self-righteous b.s. into others...but, this is a topic that people have strong feelings for. You know that you are not going to change anyone's mind and the OP clearly did not address you. So, you responded for one of two reasons

1) You wanted to start something with people

or (and what I think is the reason)

2) You are just one of those people that thinks that their way is the right way and that everyone should know your amazing and insightful opinion and how much better you are than everyone else.

Since you're so astute and obviously better than us simple-minded church mice, maybe you should read a few books on the history of paganism and humanism.

Why? Because if you knew the first thing about them, you would see the evidence of the rampant human sacrifice, glorification of death, and destruction of the innocent by these groups throughout history.

No one is being pounded with self-righteous b.s. We are just saying that a scientifically correct definition of human life does not preclude that which is in the womb, and that destroying it is murder. Whether it is wanted or not is beside the point.

I am very grateful that the majority of Americans and the courts realize the error of your way of thinking.
Majority opinion =/= correct. There was a time when the majority of the world believed that the sun revolved around the earth. They weren't right, were they?

For all the talk of tolerance and respect, you people have let slip one undeniable fact: you are very tolerant- until you encounter something or someone contradictory to the way you want to feel about yourself and the world around you, in which case you fight it tooth and nail.

Oh please! You came into a thread that did not ask for your anti-choice retoric. She wanted support for the difficult decision she is facing. And you and your cronies took the oppurtunity to spout your crap. Why are you people not tolerated? Because people don't have the sense to mind your own damn business.
You stand up for what you believe.

If I had a pregnant dog that I wanted spayed, and had her puppies- pardon me - fetal tissue, chemically burned, cut apart piece by piece, and thrown away with other medical waste, (which is legal where I live) imagine the outcry that would be raised by anyone who heard of it. Someone would probably even make an FB page and write a petition stating how evil and disgusting I was. I could turn right around and say that they were disrespecting my precious right to torture and kill innocent animals.

Abortion is legal, in case you didn't know.
This would be perfectly legal as well, so you'd better not object.

Maybe I am wasting my time, but to not object to the act of abortion is not an option for me. Anyone who can honestly say that an unborn baby is not a person is either pathetically ignorant, or has killed their conscience.

So says the Christian girl that ignores the bible's teaching on judging others. Aren't you typical to pick and choose what fits into your life?
Romans 1:28a And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind
I don't have to judge anyone. It's already there in writing.

I guess Rick Santorum is getting your vote, eh?
Because you'd like another reason to hate me and "my kind," right?

.

mollybloom · March 2012

Oh Frodo...I don't hate you. How could I? That is just silly.

No, I don't hate you, I feel bad for you.

But if it would make you feel more like the martyr that you so want to be seen as, I could pretend to hate you.

shelovesfrodo · March 2012

mollybloom:
Oh Frodo...I don't hate you. How could I? That is just silly.

No, I don't hate you, I feel bad for you.

But if it would make you feel more like the martyr that you so want to be seen as, I could pretend to hate you.

You really are patronizing, for someone who's out of high school.

As I can see you clearly think yourself smarter and far superior to anyone who might object to what you see as liberty and justice, I'm not going to dignify your vitriol with further response. If there is anybody who would like to talk about this issue by use of reasoning that holds water, carry on.

Liz4444 · March 2012

j_jaye:

This is exactly what you said:

"Have people not forgiven that and understand that the times and thinking were different when those historical events occurred. As were the times
and thinking through other not so great times in history like Hitler?s reign. He made choices based on his belief system and whilst people do not have to agree with it, they should respect that it was his choice to make. I am not debating the rights or wrongs of the choice/course of action, just that it is an individual?s choice to decide what they do. Even though there are laws people choose to break."

I DO NOT have to respect the decision Hitler made to massacre millions of people. Yes, he made that choice. And it was a horrendous, evil choice. To respect it would be deplorable. Your correct as I have said numerous times now you do not have to respect the actions/decision that Hiltler made but you have to respect that it was his choice to make. Can you really not see the difference?

No one spoke up to defend the Jew, the handicapped, the homosexual, and so on when they were being systematically murdered until it was too late. -I would argue that many people actually did defend the Jews and so on through the underground resistance movement that help many Jews and so on to escape the Nazi regime.

Yet I think we can agree that there are very few people today who believe what he did was just. And thats the word- did- an action not a belief. He made a choice/course of action based on his beliefs the same way a prolifer according to their beliefs shot dead a doctor who proformed abortions or a president decides to drop a H bomb on a country killing innocent people. They were all free to make a choice and to face the consequences of that choice.

If you want to bring the Holocaust up as an example of choice, then let's make the comparison to the topic at hand. How many millions of innocent lives - the unborn - are going to be murdered before the world wakes up and says, "Enough"?

But that is your belief, you choose to believe this and others do not. Some people do not believe that abortion is murder for various reasons- it is their choice to believe that.

I am not going to comment again because clearly you will never respect someones right to believe something different which is really sad for you because you will spend your life angry over others peoples choices which you have no control over.

The fact that anyone is trying to defend Hitler in any way sickens me.

OP, I am sorry you are dealing with this. I have not had an abortion, but I wish you the best.

twokidsmom · March 2012

mighteemouth:
It is a decision that will be with you DAILY for the rest of your life. Be careful of making this decision. Let NO MAN (or woman) judge you. Do what you feel is best for you, your spouse, and children (including the one in your tummy). Just know that just like a parent is a parent every day of his/her life, so is the parent of an aborted one. You will feel their presence with you daily. Best of luck in this tough decision. I will pray for your peace.

I couldnt disagree more. I miscarried about 5 years ago and I do not feel the presence. I did go trough with my procedure last Friday and I do not feel the presence either. And by the way, i was only 7 weeks along so technically it is still an embryo...not a fetus!

If you have had an abortion, please come in.....

Re: If you have had an abortion, please come in.....

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