Possibly Flameful: I think the Duggars are selfish, irresponsible jackasses

ScarlettBegonia

Oh that poor baby. I hope against hope that she will be ok, but isnt this going to be a long struggle for her? I have no experience with preemies; but 25 weeks is VERY early

I'm pissed for that baby. I find it irresponsible on the Duggars behalf to continue this nonsense. That poor baby is going to have an uphill struggle, perhaps a painful one; and I think its terribly unfair.  Not to mention selfish.

And what about the kids at home? If you're one of 19; there's no way your parents can/are giving you enough attention. Shouldn't they just focus on the ones they have instead of continuing this clown car insanity? To me that's awfully neglectful. If this was any other woman than wholesome, pious Michelle, more people would be furious. But its OK bc shes a WASP with lots of money-which she wouldn't have if people stopped paying attention to this ridiculousness. good God.

taratru

I want to know if people will bittch about the costs of this baby's NICU care like they do about preemies born early from IVF.

I agree with you completely.  It's time for them to stop.

marriednow06

I hope I am misreading your post, but what did they do that caused their daughter to be born early?  It is one thing to judge the sheer number of kids they have (which I admit freely that I do), but I don't think it is their fault that their daughter was a preemie.  Your wording implies that it is. 

ScarlettBegonia

You know, the cost I'm ok with. The kid is here, we have to attempt to keep her alive-its the fact that her first months will be likely painful for her that really pisses me off. Why get pregnant with your NINETEENTH and risk your child's health? Use some f-ing BC already. Ugh. And I hate how these fundies are getting a pass bc they're on TV and everyone wants to pretend there's something wholesome about this backwoods insanity.

laurenpetro

well, the good news is that there are 23 older siblings to take care of it when she has the next one.

ETA: i don't think it's their fault this happened.  but in the past they have said this is their parenting strategy.

ScarlettBegonia

marriednow06:

I hope I am misreading your post, but what did they do that caused their daughter to be born early?  It is one thing to judge the sheer number of kids they have (which I admit freely that I do), but I don't think it is their fault that their daughter was a preemie.  Your wording implies that it is. 

 

I do think it is their fault-I know that's probably doubly flameful; AND its just my opinion, not backed up by any expertise whatsoever-so maybe I should have said it was more of a 'vent':

But-I dont think  any woman was designed to carry 19 healthy pregnancies. Eventually, they were risking the health of one of these babies-and this is the one who drew the short straw, and she had no choice in the matter. Its so unbelievably unfair to the baby. They're not puppie for gods sake.

Anyway, I hate to post and run, but I have a long meeting this morning. 

MeredithE

I have a good time making fun of the Duggars and I also give them the side-eye because their kids do all the housework and take care of the children. That said, I am having a difficult time agreeing with you. Michelle and Jim Bob had no way of knowing their child's health would be in danger. They had 18?( i have lost count) other healthy children, why would this pregnancy be any different?

Finally Michelle doesn't take BC because she did after having Josh. Her pregnancy following this ended in a m/c. She blames the BC and herself for the m/c. Stop with your repugnance and start to feel sorry for Michelle. 

TefLepOM

I'm sorry, but what is wrong with you????  Seriously, blaming them for having the child early?  While I do think they have too many just from a world view (too much impact on the planet), I don't think that she is to blame in any way, shape or form.

eta: She had gallstones and that could have caused it (through no fault of her own).  I am not sure if this is always the case, but I lost my baby due to surgery because of gall stones (and subsequent perforation of my appendix). Am I to blame as well?  I don't think I have ever said this, but you make me want to puke. Seriously. 

IrishBrideND

MeredithE:

I have a good time making fun of the Duggars and I also give them the side-eye because their kids do all the housework and take care of the children. That said, I am having a difficult time agreeing with you. Michelle and Jim Bob had no way of knowing their child's health would be in danger. They had 18?( i have lost count) other healthy children, why would this pregnancy be any different?

Finally Michelle doesn't take BC because she did after having Josh. Her pregnancy following this ended in a m/c. She blames the BC and herself for the m/c. Stop with your repugnance and start to feel sorry for Michelle. 

 

This.

 

I rag on the Duggers more than most people, but I do not blame them for this.

mysticporter

I feel very, very bad for the new baby, and I hope she is OK. I don't know what caused the pre-term birth, or if her choices increased the risks...having pregnancies at an interval of < 6 months doubles the risk, did she fall in that category?  (I don't know, honestly).

That said, the Duggars are hypocrites.  They won't use birth control because the number of children they have they wish to leave "up to God".  The woman had three C-sections before this one:  they only "allow the hands of God" to work when it damn straight suits what they want to do. If they truly believed what they say they believe, they would have stopped after the first C-section, when it was man and medical intervention, not holy roulette, that brought that baby safely into the world.

ScarlettBegonia

MeredithE:

I have a good time making fun of the Duggars and I also give them the side-eye because their kids do all the housework and take care of the children. That said, I am having a difficult time agreeing with you. Michelle and Jim Bob had no way of knowing their child's health would be in danger. They had 18?( i have lost count) other healthy children, why would this pregnancy be any different?

Finally Michelle doesn't take BC because she did after having Josh. Her pregnancy following this ended in a m/c. She blames the BC and herself for the m/c. Stop with your repugnance and start to feel sorry for Michelle. 

I feel like they've been playing Russian Roulette with the babies. Thats why I'm furious. And I feel bad for the baby, and all of the children. I do not for one second feel bad for Michelle. Again-I find their behavior now, and leading up to this, very neglectful and irresponsible toward their children.

 

groovingirl

Someone in the post on MM said she's 43.  So right there is a higher risk of a problem pregnancy.  On top of the fact that her body has carried/birthed 18 other babies.  While I don't know statistics or anything on what effect having that many children has on the body, I don't think it's that farfetched to think that the combination of EIGHTEEN prior pregnancies, plus her age, equal a possibility that that contributed to the fact that her baby was born prematurely.

And as a disclaimer, I totally judge them for being a Quiverfull family.

ETA: "eta: She had gallstones and that could have caused it (through no fault of her own). "  If that's the case, then fine that's the case, and whether it is or isn't the case, it's terrible that their baby is going through all this, and I do hope the baby and Michelle recover and the baby thrives.  I still think, though, that in general, 43yrs old +18 pregnancies = greater chance you will have a problem pregnancy if you continue getting pregnant.

marriednow06

ScarlettBegonia:

marriednow06:

I hope I am misreading your post, but what did they do that caused their daughter to be born early?  It is one thing to judge the sheer number of kids they have (which I admit freely that I do), but I don't think it is their fault that their daughter was a preemie.  Your wording implies that it is. 

 

I do think it is their fault-I know that's probably doubly flameful; AND its just my opinion, not backed up by any expertise whatsoever-so maybe I should have said it was more of a 'vent':

But-I dont think  any woman was designed to carry 19 healthy pregnancies. Eventually, they were risking the health of one of these babies-and this is the one who drew the short straw, and she had no choice in the matter. Its so unbelievably unfair to the baby. They're not puppie for gods sake.

Anyway, I hate to post and run, but I have a long meeting this morning. 

Ew.  I think you better add this post to the one below about getting flamed on the nest. 

taratru

I won't start feeling sorry for Michelle.  She knowingly makes these choices.  I will feel sorry for this baby who has a long ass battle ahead of her. 

And no, her parents didn't cause her to be born early, but they did choose to have a NINETEENTH child.  Did they really think they wouldn't run into problems at some point? 

MeredithE

ScarlettBegonia:

I feel like they've been playing Russian Roulette with the babies. Thats why I'm furious. And I feel bad for the baby, and all of the children. I do not for one second feel bad for Michelle. Again-I find their behavior now, and leading up to this, very neglectful and irresponsible toward their children.

 

So a woman doesn't use BC because of being mentally traumatized by a previous m/c and you don't feel sorry for her? 

Jesus , Mary, KC and Jojo take the wheel!!!!!

Katie_F

I'll write what I wrote in the other post: you have no idea what caused the premature birth.  There is nothing so far to indicate that it has anything to do with her prior pregnancies.  Try not to jump to conclusions before you actually have facts.

KateAggie

Wow.  Judge them for the number of kids they have?  Sure.  Blame them for a child being born at 25 weeks?  Sickening.  I have no words for how repungnant I find that line of thinking.

ScarlettBegonia

groovingirl:

Someone in the post on MM said she's 43.  So right there is a higher risk of a problem pregnancy.  On top of the fact that her body has carried/birthed 18 other babies.  While I don't know statistics or anything on what effect having that many children has on the body, I don't think it's that farfetched to think that the combination of EIGHTEEN prior pregnancies, plus her age, equal a possibility that that contributed to the fact that her baby was born prematurely.

And as a disclaimer, I totally judge them for being a Quiverfull family.

 

This is what I was trying to say-thank you for making it more articulate. 

 

taratru

MeredithE:

ScarlettBegonia:

I feel like they've been playing Russian Roulette with the babies. Thats why I'm furious. And I feel bad for the baby, and all of the children. I do not for one second feel bad for Michelle. Again-I find their behavior now, and leading up to this, very neglectful and irresponsible toward their children.

 

So a woman doesn't use BC because of being mentally traumatized by a previous m/c and you don't feel sorry for her? 

Jesus , Mary, KC and Jojo take the wheel!!!!!

When someone shows me that taking b/c causes miscarriages, I might listen to her spiel about it.  However, I doubt very much the mental trauma caused by a miscarriage over 20 years ago is still fueling their choices to try to repopulate the planet.

cme25

mysticporter:

I feel very, very bad for the new baby, and I hope she is OK. I don't know what caused the pre-term birth, or if her choices increased the risks...having pregnancies at an interval of < 6 months doubles the risk, did she fall in that category?  (I don't know, honestly).

That said, the Duggars are hypocrites.  They won't use birth control because the number of children they have they wish to leave "up to God".  The woman had three C-sections before this one:  they only "allow the hands of God" to work when it damn straight suits what they want to do. If they truly believed what they say they believe, they would have stopped after the first C-section, when it was man and medical intervention, not holy roulette, that brought that baby safely into the world.

That's a decent point. She may have had emergency C-sections to save her life and the life of the baby, which I would certainly do in the same situation, but if they truly left their lives in the hands of God, wouldn't they avoid the medical intervention?! I'm not sure, and I can see both sides on that issue.

Their wikipedia site doesn't say that the previous 2 C-sections were emergency situations, and she had delivered twins vaginally in the past, but I don't know any details of the pregnancies/situations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Duggar

However, as irresponsible as I think it is for women to keep trying to get pregnant in their mid-40s (she's 43), I can't imagine this situation is their fault at all.

Oh, and she became pregnant with #19 approximately 4-5 months after her previous pregnancy.

TefLepOM

taratru:

MeredithE:

ScarlettBegonia:

I feel like they've been playing Russian Roulette with the babies. Thats why I'm furious. And I feel bad for the baby, and all of the children. I do not for one second feel bad for Michelle. Again-I find their behavior now, and leading up to this, very neglectful and irresponsible toward their children.

 

So a woman doesn't use BC because of being mentally traumatized by a previous m/c and you don't feel sorry for her? 

Jesus , Mary, KC and Jojo take the wheel!!!!!

When someone shows me that taking b/c causes miscarriages, I might listen to her spiel about it.  However, I doubt very much the mental trauma caused by a miscarriage over 20 years ago is still fueling their choices to try to repopulate the planet.

If you have not had a m/c...back off.  That is all.  If you have, then you should know it is something you NEVER GET OVER.

laurenpetro

i know women who can't take hormones for b/c.  they don't have 19 childten.  it's called a condom.  or if you're against them, there's NFP.  it's not 100% safe but there's no way it would fail 18 times.

btw: are there really more than 19 in a quiver?  i'd have thought those could only hold 12, tops.

brideymcbriderson

Where's mer's takes a seat .gif?  Appropriately enough, I found this on TLC's website.  Don't mind if I do enjoy a mid-morning snack:

Katie_F

taratru:

I won't start feeling sorry for Michelle.  She knowingly makes these choices.  I will feel sorry for this baby who has a long ass battle ahead of her. 

And no, her parents didn't cause her to be born early, but they did choose to have a NINETEENTH child.  Did they really think they wouldn't run into problems at some point? 

When you have a premature child I will remember to blame you for it.  There is always a chance of a child being born to early.  You could run into problems at some point.  By your logic no one should procreate.  

MeredithE

taratru:

When someone shows me that taking b/c causes miscarriages, I might listen to her spiel about it.  However, I doubt very much the mental trauma caused by a miscarriage over 20 years ago is still fueling their choices to try to repopulate the planet.

 You must have missed the episode where she cites the m/c as the reason she doesn't take BC. Whether or not BC causes m/c's( which I know isnt true) is inconsequential in this situation. Its what she believes based on a traumatic experience. 

monkaloo

I'm a longtime lurker, but as a mother to two premature babies, I feel compelled to post something here.

Premature births happen for many many reasons.  I was 26, healthy, and had never been pregnant before when my daughter was born almost 2 months early.  We still don't really know why.  I was 29, healthy, and taking all preventative measures during my second pregnancy when my son was born just over a month early.  Again, there is no clue why.  I simply can't make it to term.

What about people like us who have premature babies right off the bat?  Did we do something wrong, too? Are we responsible as well?  Or is it just parents of many kids that deserve to be blamed when there are problems?

TefLepOM

monkaloo:

What about people like us who have premature babies right off the bat?  Did we do something wrong, too? Are we responsible as well?  Or is it just parents of many kids that deserve to be blamed when there are problems?

No, because you have the preapproved number of kids.  Double-digits, you must be asking for it.

KateAggie

monkaloo:

I'm a longtime lurker, but as a mother to two premature babies, I feel compelled to post something here.

Premature births happen for many many reasons.  I was 26, healthy, and had never been pregnant before when my daughter was born almost 2 months early.  We still don't really know why.  I was 29, healthy, and taking all preventative measures during my second pregnancy when my son was born just over a month early.  Again, there is no clue why.  I simply can't make it to term.

What about people like us who have premature babies right off the bat?  Did we do something wrong, too? Are we responsible as well?  Or is it just parents of many kids that deserve to be blamed when there are problems?

I just had to butt in and say...

So cute!!!  I cannot believe how grown up they are!!

cme25

ScarlettBegonia:

groovingirl:

Someone in the post on MM said she's 43.  So right there is a higher risk of a problem pregnancy.  On top of the fact that her body has carried/birthed 18 other babies.  While I don't know statistics or anything on what effect having that many children has on the body, I don't think it's that farfetched to think that the combination of EIGHTEEN prior pregnancies, plus her age, equal a possibility that that contributed to the fact that her baby was born prematurely.

And as a disclaimer, I totally judge them for being a Quiverfull family.

 

This is what I was trying to say-thank you for making it more articulate. 

This is what she was trying to say, apparently- I don't agree with the OP, but I think this is the spirit SB was trying to convey.

taratru

TefLepOM:

taratru:

MeredithE:

ScarlettBegonia:

I feel like they've been playing Russian Roulette with the babies. Thats why I'm furious. And I feel bad for the baby, and all of the children. I do not for one second feel bad for Michelle. Again-I find their behavior now, and leading up to this, very neglectful and irresponsible toward their children.

 

So a woman doesn't use BC because of being mentally traumatized by a previous m/c and you don't feel sorry for her? 

Jesus , Mary, KC and Jojo take the wheel!!!!!

When someone shows me that taking b/c causes miscarriages, I might listen to her spiel about it.  However, I doubt very much the mental trauma caused by a miscarriage over 20 years ago is still fueling their choices to try to repopulate the planet.

If you have not had a m/c...back off.  That is all.  If you have, then you should know it is something you NEVER GET OVER.

I've had two this year, so um...yeah. Not saying she's over it - I'm pretty sure I will never "get over it", but I doubt very much it's at the heart of her decision to keep reproducing.  And if it is?  She needs to go to therapy.

cme25

And PS, what is a WASP??