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Re: Possibly Flameful: I think the Duggars are selfish, irresponsible jackasses
White Anglo Saxon Protestant
Yes,I'm smiling...I'm a marathoner!
Bloggy McBloggerson
CO Nestie Award Winner-Prettiest Brain-Back to Back!
2011 Bests
5K-22:49 10K-47:38 Half Mary-1:51:50
2012 Race Report
1/1-New Year's 5K-22:11
2/11-Sweetheart Classic 4-mile-29:49
3/24-Coulee Chase 5K-21:40
5/6-Colorado Marathon-4:08:30
5/28-Bolder Boulder 10K
Very true. I have a lot of sympathy for anyone who has suffered a mc, and can understand and support a choice to avoid hormonal bc because of it. But that's no free pass to make whatever choices you want in life (including ignoring other bc options).
I don't blame them for the pre-mature birth. I feel for anyone who has a preemie, and there's a lot of people who do without ever doing anything to raise the risk of it. That doesn't mean that the Duggars didn't do anything to raise the risk, and it doesn't mean they didn't. My main problem with them has always been their claim to make choices based on their beliefs when it's become obvious that they make their choices first and use their beliefs to justify them.
Hi Kate!!!
Thanks!! Mar is so beautiful!! Oh, and congrats on your pregnancy!
I'm sorry for your losses as well Tef. It does suck and it is hard and it does affect you for a long time, I'm sure. And you're right that I shouldn't judge, but I'm bitter and it's hard not to.
Yes,I'm smiling...I'm a marathoner!
Bloggy McBloggerson
CO Nestie Award Winner-Prettiest Brain-Back to Back!
2011 Bests
5K-22:49 10K-47:38 Half Mary-1:51:50
2012 Race Report
1/1-New Year's 5K-22:11
2/11-Sweetheart Classic 4-mile-29:49
3/24-Coulee Chase 5K-21:40
5/6-Colorado Marathon-4:08:30
5/28-Bolder Boulder 10K
at least.
This thread is sickening.
That is all.
Oh and ditto to Tef, KatieF, KateAggie, etc.
well, shyt. this thread is a hot mess. blaming them for this is not only ridiculous, it's illogical and without any medical evidence.
but even if you choose to have such an assbackwards take on reason -- and clearly you have -- do you not have a shred of compassion?
Trust me, I know the feeling. I am trying to keep my head, but this is hitting a little close because gall stones and surgery are what caused my last m/c so it is hard.
I'll take the over on that one.
Their basic belief (as I understand it) is that it is up to God to decide when to create life. Their free will steps in in the form of choosing whether or not to have sex. How that translates into it being hypocritical for them to have medical care (such as a necessary c-section) stumps me.
I believe God blessed me with my child, so does that mean I should not provide medical care for my child because God will decide? No. He put her in my care, and it is my responsibility to provide for her in every sense of the word.
<a href="http://www.thenest.com/?utm_source=ticker&utm_medium=HTML&utm_campaign=tickers" title="Home D
So we should call women selfish, irresponsible jackasses if they: have a premie and try to keep it alive, never get over having a miscarriage, have many children, encourage their kids to take care of each other and share, have kids over the age of 40.....what else am I missing? Wow.
And, to the poster who said that women weren't designed to carry 19 babies, think again. A few hundred years ago, women regularly had over 10 children. They often continued having children until menopause. The only difference between then and now is that many of the children didn't live to the age of 18 due to accidents, illness, etc.
helping to care for a sibling and being responsible for the care of a sibling are 2 VASTLY different things.
That's really not what she said. Y'all need to read her post again, and then read my post, which she said is what she was really trying to say. Agree or disagree with that, not the emotionally charged miscarriage issues.
Women hundreds of years ago (okay even just barely a hundred years ago) had 10+ kids because they needed help on the farm, not just because of their religious beliefs. And women did not, IIRC, have very long lifespans because of it (and lack of adequate medical care).
I saw this on MM:
So if it makes any difference, she knew that her pregnancies hadn't negatively affected her body before she got pregnant with Josie.
She may have meant what you said, but her post title alone is "I think the Duggars are selfish, irresponsible jackasses". I think that speaks volumes.
I'm so sorry Tef
Yeah, but this isn't consistent with earlier reports. I remember when she was pregnant with #16 (I think). They did a special back then, and their OB/GYN on THAT show said she should really stop having children because it was taking a toll on her body. Things were getting stretched thin down there. However, THAT doctor is not the one they've been showing lately--and they've been claiming has been with them sometime.
Something in the kool-aid ain't clean!
I can see both sides of the coin, though neither sit very well in my stomach.
It's awful to "blame" a parent for the premature birth of their child, but at what point does it become morally responsible to stop giving birth?
She's got an obligation to the children already here. And no matter how you slice is 19 births is hard on the human body. A few hundred years ago, when women regularly had over 10 children, they started alot younger than Michelle, who's 43 now!
I'm still thinking about this one I guess....
The Duggars claim (on their website) :
We weren?t sure if Michelle could have any more children after the miscarriage, but we were sure we were going to stop using the pill. In fact we agreed we would stop using any form of birth control and let God decide how many children we would have. Just a couple of months later, Michelle became pregnant with twins. A double blessing!
That's where the hypocrisy comes in. They are not letting God decide how many children they have. They are deciding exactly where God's influence should end (conception) and where medical intervention should begin (apparently the second after). I have no problems with medical intervention, and I completely agree with you that a belief in God does not, and should not, preclude medical intervention. The Duggar's, however, have stated that they, apparently, do...at least in some cases...when it suits their needs. I'm not saying they shouldn't have accepted medical intervention. I'm saying that when it became obvious that God decided they could only have a child with medical intervention, their own beliefs (that it was up to Him) should have mandated they stop trying for more.
For all that think her body was a wreck from all the pregnancies:
As far as her own health, her doctor told PEOPLE when her last child was born that Michelle's health was excellent: "Some women are made to have babies, and Michelle is to the nth degree," ob-gyn Amy Sarver told PEOPLE in December. "She is in terrific health without any strain on her uterus."
http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/TV/09/01/duggars.new.baby/index.html
I am 44 years old, in great health have all of my body parts in fine working order and I don't know of a doctor on this planet that wouldn't council me in all of the possible problems associated with my planning a pregnancy...and what does a "body made to have babies" mean or look like??
Can anyone point to a source stating that multiple pregnancies cause premature births after a certain number?
Are you willing to say that anyone 43 shouldn't have kids b/c of increased risks? How about anyone over 35 since that's where risks start to increase?
I get that we think her choices are wonky b/c they are unusual, but I'm not going to judge anyone for deciding the size of their own family as long as they aren't asking me pay for it and are not endangering the babies' health to do it. There's no evidence here that is the case.
There's always the argument that it's unfair to older kids, but I'm not sure I buy that. My own grandmother was one of 12. She was 2nd oldest and cared for her young siblings. They are all close, well-adjusted, successful adults. I wonder if our focus on giving kids so much of mommy and daddy's whole focus does more harm than good. The Duggar children certainly seem politer and better-behaved than most kids I encounter these days. They seem to be doing something right.
I don't know about studies - but there is an increased risk with age 35 and over and number of pregnancies - the diagnosis is call elderly multigravida and they monitor your pregnancy differently because of it. There is most certainly an increased risk of uterine rupture after so many pregnancies.
The thing is, our bodies are not meant to get pg 4 or 5 months after giving birth. We were meant to BF for several years, which (for most women) naturally created a birth spacing of about 3 years. Obviously there are exceptions.
A 3 year birth spacing gives the mothers body a chance to heal and rebuild stores, and it reduces the total number of pg's she will carry before menopause. I am going to go try to find a source for the 3 year thing- I beleive the WHO has info.
It's not been part of the current discussion, which is complex enough as it is, but there's certainly an environmentalist argument that people who personally increase the population so dramatically are in some ways making us all pay with their choices.