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Re: Possibly Flameful: I think the Duggars are selfish, irresponsible jackasses
Wow, is nobody else flipping out because they've claimed their house as a church and aren't paying any property taxes because of it?
https://www.ark.org/washingtoncounty/index.php
Type in Duggar in the "Find my taxpayer number" slot, choose the four entries that are to the Duggars at 600 Arbor Acres, hit next on the next page, and the tax bill is recorded as $0.00 for the full year amount.
A $7000-sq ft. property with 20 acres and no property taxes??!
I'm sorry, but there really seems to be an almost celebratory "see, I told you so" tone to this. Almost like you're saying, "I told you not to live your life the way that you're living it! And now you've gone and had a baby at 25 weeks. If you had only had the number of children that I find appropriate, this wouldn't have happened." It's honestly kind of sickening.
I think it's wrong to call her behavior irresponsible. You don't know what her doctors have been telling her. It's quite possible that after #18, her doctor said, "You know, you're still healthy. I don't think #19 would pose a significant risk." As for being neglectful parents, I know people who were only children and received less attention than the Duggars seem to receive. I really don't like judging the parenting style of anyone unless it's a case of obvious abuse or criminal negligence. Somehow I doubt that their children feel unloved or ignored.
Um, that would imply that I was happy the baby was in this situation-so no, I think you get a big fat FAIL n this one, considering my only concern/issue has been about the kids to begin with.
But thanks for playing. I find it telling that thats what YOU'RE reading into it though-I challenge you to find anything I've said in this thread even remotely celebratory of an infants pain.
this. like I said earlier I am 44 and any doctor worth their salt would be an idiot to give me their blessing to go forth without laying all the risks out to me and then opening themselves up to who knows what in liability
missed it. sorry! i should have known
Isn't there also a jump in risks for someone like me who wants to have another child someday and didn't accomplish that before turning 35? It would have been less risky for me to do it earlier, but I didn't. I don't know if that makes me irresponsible for not timing it to lower my risks. I don't agree with the sheer number of kids the Duggars have but in general I don't know if we can provide a cutoff to people to say it is riskier now than before so stop trying.
But I do concede that I have no idea what a uterine prolapse is so maybe it is more severe than what I am thinking. : ).
Dont google it! It looks awfully painful.
It is bad, but that is up to their state to get it set. I get more annoyed that Johns Hopkins pays little to no tax in Baltimore City with millions in property. So, I think the outrage will be limited since that is a local issue.
I see you've got nothing? What, you figured you just jump on the flame babdwagon, throw down some unsubstantiated shizz, and I wouldnt say anything?
Not my style sweatpea.
?Lo children are a heritage of the Lord, the fruit of the womb is His reward.?
From the Duggars website....I imagine since they believe this they feel they've won a holy lottery.
Sorry, I was off on another board. I'm not saying that you sound like you are celebrating the road the baby has ahead of her. It's more like you're using her premature birth as a reason to celebrate some sort of victory over the quiverfull movement. It comes off as seeming like you're saying, "Ha, Michelle. I told you so and now because you were wrong and I was right you have hurt your 19th child by having her at 25 weeks. All because of your reckless irresponsibility, and by "irresponsibility" I mean not living the way that I think you should live."
You really don't see anything wrong or cruel, but merely "possibly flameful" about essentially attacking a woman the day after her daughter was born very premature and then basically blaming her for the premature birth and saying that she was wrong to have had several of her other healthy children?
What is with the name-calling? Anyway, I am not her, but I do say that you are not just concerned with the children based on your post title and first post. You are judging the parents so you are concerned about how they are impacting their kids and the community at large. I am not saying it is an "I told you so" in the strictest sense, but people keep saying 'you have 18 kids, this is what happens' and it is kind of the same thing as december mentioned, imo. I am not sure if that is what is meant, but tone is hard to read and it appears that some may be blaming the preemie on Michelle and her (poor, to some) choices.
I think I made myself clear: this isnt about me mocking their lifestyle per se, its about the effect their lifestyle has on the emotional well being of the children. It really isnt as simple as whether or not I 'agree', right? But I think most of the child development community shares my POV.
My biggest beef with them is it isn't about their choices anymore, bc their choices affect other living beings-the kids-who have a right to be taken care of emotionally. Every kid deserves that.
So to say I'm celebrating Michelle's situation to me= celebrating the situation the baby is in. They cant be separated. I took major offense to that, bc I've been genuinely concerned about these kids form a psychological perspective for awhile. Just like I'd be concerned about the parents who believe God doesnt want them to take their kid to the hospital, or God wants them to kiss poisonous snakes.
Neglecting your children emotionally, to me-is whats sickening. And I realize we could debate whether these kids are in a healthy psychological environment all day, but I'm going to go with the professionals on this one.
Anyway, saying I was celebrating this situation really got under my skin. SWIM?
What the fucck is going on in this thread???
Anything you can achieve through hard work, you could also just buy.
Well of COURSE I'm judging the parents! I am not, however, saying they deserved this in any way. From what we have discussed, she was advised it may not be safe to continue getting pregnant-for her OR the baby. Many posters in this thread, including one with some knowledge of obstetrics, have said the same. So the fact that Michelle & JB were advised by a doc to stop-and didnt- means that they do share some responsibility for this situation. I'm sure they didnt mean for it to turn out this way, but when you know the risks and take the risk anyway, thats irresponsible.
Re the initial post...It's none of your damn concern if they have the money to pay for it. It's funny that the very same people who are usually saying that the government should pay for every person and his/her stupid decision is begrudging the Duggars their family. Yeah, it's weird, but what about "pro-choice" and "stay out of the bedroom?" Her body, her choice indeed.
The hypocrisy looms large.
Good pt.
It's not hypocrisy - it's two totally separate things. Being pro-choice means you don't want the government telling what you can and cannot legally do. That has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with thinking someone else's choice is a terrible one. I don't want what the Duggars do to be illegal, but that doesn't mean I don't think it's terrible.
Also, it's "GOVERNMENT stay out of the bedroom", FYI.
Where did you see that they were advised to not have children? CNN et al had a quote from their obgyn that she was healthy and capable of having another. No issues with her cervix/pelvis/uterus.
Maybe she does a lot of Kegels.
I'm just curious: can you show me where I mentioned cost? I'd love to see it.
I am guessing your post on this:
Julie is insinuating that:
1) I advocate for the Gov-mitt paying for everything. Never once said that. Wow.
2) That I begrudge the cost it will take to keep the baby alive. Pretty sure I said the opposite.
I do however, triple-dog dare Julie to say she would be just fine with a minority, not religious mother having 19 kids. I stand by my original assertion that MD is getting a pass bc she's a fundie WASP.
I didn't read the 125 responses before me, but do you judge any woman with a premature birth? Would you have judged her if it happened to baby #2 and she decided to have a 3rd? At some point, she was bound to have a premature baby - statistics. No way to know what baby that is going to happen to.
And as to the number of kids, they seem to be doing better than at least 50% of parents out there raising good kids. I'd rather those kids running around out there than the only children whose parents neglected them for their careers and the kids grow up to be selfish brats. Which do you prefer?
My Chart My Nest Bio
Why does it have to be one extreme or the other?
You consider them "good" children???? I think polite children are great - I hope to some day raise one or two of them. Mindlessly obedient drone children, on the other hand....not so much.
ETA: And ditto Irish. I hate that we always talk in extremes. Seems that happens a lot when we talk about parenting choices, doesn't it....
I just do not believe it's healthy or right to force your kids to give up their childhoods to accommodate your incessant baby making. I think it's wrong to force someone else to raise your kid, and it's especially horrible when it's someone who should be having a childhood herself.