Sex & Romance
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Re: Godly advice, please. I'm at a loss.
Then I hope you are the major breadwinner in the relationship.
she isnt. she moved to where he is and only has a part time job and lives with his parents.
idk how he looks at work because most places have sites like that banned..
So do you think it's okay that he's using company time to look at porn? (maybe he's got 'em downloaded on his phone; he doesn't necessarily have to use the work computers for that purpose...or maybe it's a crock. Maybe he cooked that up to appease her and he's looking at porn elsewhere.)
Okay, sweetie, here you go:
You need to stop trying to seduce him before the wedding. You know that's wrong. You've said it yourself. Stop.
You need to talk to a wise, uninvolved Christian in person. To be completely honest, if you call up your pastor and say "FI and I are having a serious issue and I'm really concerned about entering into a marriage right now" and your pastor does not make time for you or put you in touch with someone who can, then your pastor is not very good at his job. My now-husband and I had an issue similar to yours (not exactly the same) when we were engaged. When we told our pastor that we had a major problem and needed to talk to him, we went to the front of the line. He skipped dinner and canceled other appointments to meet with us that day, and our wedding was much farther off at the time than yours is. Any decent church that takes divorce seriously will want to work with engaged couples before they make the irrevocable commitment of marriage.
A physical union is a serious thing, and I understand why you don't take it lightly. But you are NOT MARRIED YET. And even if you were, cheating nullifies the marriage covenant, so he has already broken that agreement. The Bible states repeatedly in both the Old and New Testaments that adultery/cheating breaks the marriage, so you staying in the relationship is your own decision, not a biblically-mandated one. Be aware that you could be making a very stupid choice for no reason other than your own willfulness and fear of going it alone. You are confusing forgiveness with tolerating sin. Forgive him, by all means, but only stick with him if he is showing you by his ACTIONS that he has repented and changed. Talk is cheap. He needs to prove it, and it is going to take more than two months for him to do that.
I strongly suggest that you spend some time on this site. http://www.blazinggrace.org/healingforwives.htm
Please, please, sit down with a mature Christian outside of both of your families and lay this all out on the table. If you are in a decent church, you will get love, forgiveness, and some hard questions about why you are following the "leadership" of someone who is going down a path of sin. If you feel like there's nobody in your church that you can trust with this, then you are in a church that is not very biblical, and you need to get involved in one that is. Good luck, honey.
Some of us actually have trust in our relationships. Sucks that you don't.
Cause google is absolute, thanks how could I be so naive. Also, the old testament if you pay attention is much different than the new testament. It is even said that there is a new law, and the old law is thrown out. You could be put to death for stealing someones buffalo and things like that. Do some research.
I read through some of these posts but not all of them, so please just ignore this if it is a repeat of something already said.
I want to say I agree, that your FI is supposed to be the leader (especially if he is a spiritual leader in the church). Once you get married to him he is your spiritual leader leading you and your future family to God and live in a Godly way. Even before then he should be honoring you and your body, and keeping your relationship on a spiritual and Godly track. If he isn't taking the lead and being the Godly man he should be, then maybe you need to rethink the relationship or your views.
Second, are you going to premarital counseling? If you are then things like this should be coming up and should be talked about before you get married. And not to scare you but premarital counseling can either reassure you that you are going to be marrying the right person or it can break the relationship. But that is ok, when you really believe in God's word about divorce, you want to be sure that you are sure....it is for life!.....So do you want to live with his struggles for life?
Another thing, have him go to XXXchurch.com, make sure he has an accountability buddy in the church. Also he has to be willing to work on it. Porn is an addiction, he doesn't do it because he loves you less or thinks you are ugly or anything; he does it because he is addicted to it. He needs counseling, accountability, and support if he really wants to change his behavior. My husband is a friends accountability partner for this same reason. Our friend wanted to stop looking at porn before he got married, so he could be the man he needs to be.
If you have so many doubts about this relationship and with the wedding coming up fast, but you still really feel this man is who God wants you to marry and be with for life, then you need to consider whether you can live with his porn addiction and whether you can support him through recovering from it. He may always have the urges to do it, but if he doesn't do it, he is better for it.
My other suggestion though it may be harsh, is to postpone your wedding until he can come to terms with the problem and have time to try and fix it. But from what I am hearing you say, even about yourself, I would go and get some counsel about all these issues and really be considering whether you want to marry this man. You need to feel secure in a relationship and you need to be able to trust, without those things...you will always doubt and be insecure. Sure you may have given yourself to him and feel that is for life, but that doesn't mean it is. You already made one mistake, don't make another one that could hurt you even more.
I only skimmed the majority of the posts but I did catch one PP touch on something that I think seems to be a major red flag from what you have posted. It seems as though you have somewhat phased God out of your relationship and are relying solely on your FI for everything. The Lord is a very jealous God and He demands to always be first in our hearts/lives and I'm worried that you are putting your FI on a higher pedestal than he should be. Try to pull yourself back and take a good look at how you have prioritized things in your life and try to be very blunt with yourself. Talk with an older Christian woman that you respect, get counseling on your own, jump into scripture, whatever you need to do. Just make sure you actually HEAR what is said to you. Try not to go into situations with your mind already made up (as it seems you have here: He IS the one!!) and be open to hearing what people/God is trying to tell you. I'm wondering if you should try being more open when you're praying. "Please help FI to stop looking at porn" might be completely missing the issue. Maybe you need to pray that God will direct your path and show you what He TRULY wants for your life. EVEN if that means, not including your FI. Please don't get defensive when I say that and say "no I KNOW he's the one" because I am not trying to tell you that he is or isn't one way or the other. I'm simply suggesting that maybe God is trying to tell you that this is not the man He had in mind for you, and you are so busy "loving" and "forgiving" that you are not listening to your real spiritual leader. Just be open.
The other big thing I noticed was that you keep talking about how you made a vow to him and it cannot be broken. Several PPs have brought this to your attention but I will say it one more time for good measure: you are NOT married yet. You cannot hold yourself to standards that were created for marriage when you are not actually IN a marriage. I'm not sure if you don't think you're worthy of being forgiven for having premarital sex, so you're acting as though you're already married in order to make yourself feel better about your wrongdoing, but if that is the case, your issue is with your trust in God and not your "vow" to your fiance. If you have repented, your sin is washed away. That means it no longer exists. So pretend for a second that you're still a virgin, you've never slept with your FI, and you're having these issues that you talked about in your OP. What "vow" is binding you to him now? None at all. NOTHING is biblically forcing you to stay with this man or accept this behavior. If you choose to stay, that is obviously between you and God and your FI, but it has NOTHING to do with you being a servant of God. Your persistent attempts to seduce your FI when he seems to be uninterested (which is a whole host of other issues) scream of insecurity and it breaks my heart that you are still condemning yourself for your past that you are FORCING this relationship to make it forever. Please stop dwelling on the "only one man for me" mindset.
As for the porn. The only thing I will say is to think on the verse that says to remove the plank from your own eye before you worry about the speck in the eye of your brother's. You are still actively trying to have premarital sex with your FI on a regular basis. Do not focus on his porn-related activities until you have absolved yourself from your own sins. Do I think what he is doing is right? No. But what leg do you have to stand on when he could turn around and say to you "then stop trying to sleep with me"?
It seems that while you may have good intentions, you are having a difficult time putting them into action. I somewhat agree with the poster who said that you should not be praying WITH your FI so regularly at this point. Once you are married, yes of course, because you are now a unit and should act as one, but remember that your walk with Jesus is FIRST an individual walk and only THEN is it connected with your spouse. Trust your God. Trust that while you may think you cannot live without your FI, or you cannot wait another year to get married, He may have much bigger plans in place for you.
I wish you the best, OP. I hope that you hear the supportive comments so many posters have given you and do not get stuck in the cycle of being so "defensive of your man". Someone has to defend you as well. Isn't that the role of the Godly man in the first place? Good luck!
This goes to Tarpon, I think you mam give TERRIBLE advice. If she thinks that looking at porn is the same as cheating, THAT IS HER OPINION. Who are you to tell her it isn't that way? And your quote "Marriage makes existing problems perminent"?!!! Really? Wow, you must be a very bitter hurt person, because that is absolutely not true. People can and do change. You cannot lump everyone into one sad little category that you have obviously created from your own personal experiences.
I can relate to this woman because I do agree that looking at porn is cheating. If a man is aroused by another woman and God forbid orgasims to the image of another woman, how is that not the same as cheating? If you find that to be okay then I think YOU are the one who needs a self esteem check in at the therapist. No woman should ever feel that her husband needs anyone else to be sexually fulfilled.
I think this young lady needs to tell her man that either he stops looking at porn, or he loses his relationship. Time for an ultimatum.
This goes to Tarpon, I think you mam give TERRIBLE advice. If she thinks that looking at porn is the same as cheating, THAT IS HER OPINION. Who are you to tell her it isn't that way? And your quote "Marriage makes existing problems perminent"?!!!
Why I said it makes a problem pernament:
She can walk away from this sham relationship right now. No costly divorce would be entailed.
Her problem isn't permanent now inasmuch as she is not married to this guy. That is why I said "marriage makes all problems permanent ones."
Really? Wow, you must be a very bitter hurt person, because that is absolutely not true. People can and do change. You cannot lump everyone into one sad little category that you have obviously created from your own personal experiences.
Oh really. He can change? Uh, I don't see him making the effort: he IS about to be a married man in 2 months; looks like impending marriage and making his intended happy is not his priority.
Ask anybody on these boards who is going through a bad time with a spouse how much the spouse can change where there will be no problem.
I can relate to this woman because I do agree that looking at porn is cheating. If a man is aroused by another woman and God forbid orgasims to the image of another woman, how is that not the same as cheating?
God forbids orgasms to the image of another woman? Holy smokes....where did you get this one???
If you find that to be okay then I think YOU are the one who needs a self esteem check in at the therapist. No woman should ever feel that her husband needs anyone else to be sexually fulfilled.
I won't have a battle of wits with one who is not armed.
I think this young lady needs to tell her man that either he stops looking at porn, or he loses his relationship. Time for an ultimatum.
Here is where you are spot on right, my friend. But you have no assurance that he's actually not watchig it. You can either take his word for it or wonder if he's sneaking it in somewhere -- and what happens when you catch him or find his downloads, etc?
What it all boils down to:
If you are not happy with an aspect of the relationship or what he is doing makes you uncomfortable, time to cut your losses and go. It's as simple as that.
She does not "need" to speak to a Christian. She needs to speak to somebody who will wake her up and get her to more or less hit rock bottom -- and realize she needs this jerk like a fish needs a bike.
Porn is the least of her worries compared to the hot mess she's got with this creep. He's getting carte blanche to do absolutely everything he wants, all with the little submissive wife to be's permission.
The PP who said this is correct:
Your persistent attempts to seduce your FI when he seems to be uninterested (which is a whole host of other issues) scream of insecurity and it breaks my heart that you are still condemning yourself for your past that you are FORCING this relationship to make it forever. Please stop dwelling on the "only one man for me" mindset.
The relationship is over. Pretty much there IS no problem at this point; she needs to pack up, say goodbye and go. Simple as that.
When there's a disconnect in the bedroom, there are problems. And technically, HE should be the one to say goodbye, on gentleman's agreement. Why are you leading this young woman on, dude?
He is telling her loud and clear he's not into her. Too bad she doesn't get it. My guess is that she somehow thinks she's tied to this guy because of the spiritual leader bit and because he was the recipient of her virginity. Weird and hard to believe this is 2011.
The OP never stated exactly what kind of porn it is. For all we know, it may even be reading Playboy or Penthouse -- skin mags but definitely not porno by definition, but the OP views it as such. To each her own.
I've noticed OP hasn't posted in for a few pages, so hopefully she is still reading and maybe this can clear up some questions others may have as to why she has fully devoted herself to this man.
To OP: I can relate to what you are going through. My first boyfriend was my first for EVERYTHING, fist kiss, first boy friend, first sex partner. In my head while I was dating him I was married to him. I dated him for 3 years and for the first 2 to 2.5 years I thought I was going to marry him. I loved him and believed with all my heart he was the one for me. I gave him virginity and my religious beliefs taught no sex before marriage. So by having sex with him and by making myself feel it was ok to have sex with him because I was married to him in my head which made me feel like I married to him spiritually before legally being married. From the get go I should have known he wasn't the one for me. We had issues about religion. He had me do things I would never do because of my religion, but I let it go. I let God take second place to him and I did what my boyfriend wanted me to do. He had me watch porn with him; I lost my virginity on a Sunday, the day, I felt is supposed to be devoted to God. I thought if I can teach him my religious beliefs and he accepts them we will be happy and everything would be ok.
I know this isn't what the OP is going through exactly. But I think it?s what she is going through mentally. By giving up her virginity to him she is already married to him mentally. It took me half a year to a full year to realize I wasn't married to this man and that he was not the man for me. I was the submissive one in the relationship. I didn't want to hurt him and I know for the past 6 months of our relationship both of us were unhappy. I felt tremendous guilt for giving him my virginity and not marrying him. But I know God forgave me for it. He forgives for those who are truly sorry.
I don't want to seem like I am attacking or saying that OP doesn't have good communication skills, but I too am in a long distance relationship. My fiance and I live 1600 miles apart and like the first year and a half of your relationship we depend on telephones to talk to each other. I want to say that conversations of "I love you, I miss you, I wish you were here." are not conversations. With my first boyfriend that is all we said over the phone when we lived only 10 minutes apart (in fact I'd say we talked to each other about everything, but we never communicated with each other about feelings or issues). I have had to work extremely hard to avoid that with my fiance now. We do tend to do that but we also make sure we talk about our day, anything that is bothering us, and anything in general such as happenings that were on the news.
OP: My advice to you is push back your wedding and as PPs have said get counseling. Talk to a leader in your church and tell him you two are sexually active with each other. While it may not be their business that you two are having sex, it may help them understand some other issues that may be going on in the relationship, or may help them understand where the two of you are mentally in the relationship.
Abstaining for a while may also help you understand how you two feel about each other. I'm Catholic and my first boyfriend and I broke up in the beginning of April of 09. The reason I am sharing this is because for Lent that year (I believe it started in the middle of February) I gave up sex. From Ash Wednesday that year until Easter we had no sex and it made things clear for me. I was with him for the sex. It gave me the feeling I was loved and that I loved him when in reality it was the chemicals my brain that was giving off that made me feel that way. I know for a fact now that I'd be divorced from him by now if I had married him. Something both he and I were against doing. I am still against it, but it happens and there are acceptable reasons for it to happen. I just hope personally I never have to go through a divorce.
I know this post is long but OP, I hope you and your fiance can work things out. I don't think you can work them out before the wedding though. Push it back at least two months if not farther. Get counseling and while you are praying about your relationship, don't just rely on prayer. I feel that God does answer prayers, but he also helps those who help themselves. He doesn't answer prayers all the time until you make a decision about something, then he will answer and let you know if it was wrong or right. Good luck and God bless.
The above poster is spot on: the OP already thinks she's married to him in her mind. This is probably why she's hell bent for leather to keep up her end of the relationship --- it's pretty clear that her FI has already called it quits.
And all of this is tied into the fact that she gave up her virginity to this guy. And that "we'll be together forever" credo...it's impossible. As you can see, anything can happen in the meanwhile and anything can sure happen after you get married.
The OP is all screwed up. There's a bunch of problems --- she thinks she's already married to this guy, there's the virginity issue, her religion isn't the right one for her -- huh? what do you mean "my FI is my spiritual leader"??? Your SO or FI or spouse should not, as I said, even be a prayer partner -- there's some kind of weird cult fundy thing here in the mix and she is pursuing a relationship that is already over.
Not to mention that she thinks he's cheating but yet she wants to marry him anyway.
And not to mention also that some of the "advice" that's been given isn't the best or what the OP needs to hear.
It would be no shame and no crime and certainly not wrong in your Maker's eyes if you said, "This relationship isn't for me. I'm going to cut my losses and end this relationship". What is the worst you will have, egg on your face? Big deal -- better you dodge a bullet than go through the emotional and monetary expense of a wedding and wind up in a marriage that's not going to work.
The fact that there's no sex in this relationship and the guy won't let her stay with him at his place is bad news. This is somebody you're supposed to be getting closer to, not somebody you're getting lots and lots of distance from.
And I haven't heard her mention that they are going to premarital counseling via their church. Just about every religious denomination has premarital counseling -- orf if not counseling, you usually meet with your officiant, along with your FI, before you're married. And usually the counseling/meetings are squared away well before the 2 months before the wedding mark. I see something wrong with this picture on this level, also: maybe they've gone and the officiant has a lot of grey areas with their relationship and the OP's not saying. Who knows?
If you went and told your clergy person the way things are in this relationship, I am 100% positive that no cleric worth his or her collar will put a hearty seal of approval on the upcoming nuptials. There's too much going on and in short, this relationship is not for the OP.
I have no read every comment to this so I am not sure what all has been said. I was quite frankly disgusted by some of the views of these people.
I completely agree with you. Watching porn is a form of adultery and just as much of a sin and physically having an affair or lying. (All sin is equal) My husband and I have been married for 6 years and last month I discovered his struggle with pornography. Although we has talked about it in the past and he always denied it, this last time he knew he needed to confess. The whole problem for him all along was admitting it which hurt his pride. Even though he wanted and knew he needed to stop several times, it was accountability that he needed. Although it was a huge blow to my self esteem, I prayed to handle the situation they way God would have me. We never once got in any kind of argument about it which was a huge blessing to him.
Something I saw you are dealing with is comparing yourself to the women he saw. I do the same thing and he tells me our marriage and that struggle were two separate things. He says he never compared me to them or wanted me to look like them. I too, am small up top and very modest. I still, 6 weeks later and dealing with it. We talk about it every time I get upset and walk through it. It's part of the process. My father in law is a pastor and told me in most couple he counsels, the healing process is much longer for the female and over all effects them more. I would love to talk with you more about what I have learned from this. Please email me. Michelle : mdmills723@yahoo.com
No its not ok. I was pointing out that she is not the breadwinner so if he gets sacked they are screwed.
Thank you for all the responses and spiritual advice. I was going to reply to each one separately but I can't because there are so many. I will just write one big one.
First, for clarity:
It is not that my FI is no longer interested in me or wants to wait until marriage. We are intimate 4-6 times a week but he has told me no just a few times. It is ridiculous, honestly, that I would be discouraged from just a few times of "No not tonight." and I realize that. I have grown up a Christian and have actively followed the Word ever since I could remember. I know sex before marriage is wrong. I know all of the scriptures behind it. I was devoted to wait until marriage. I said that my whole life. I met with my youth pastor when I was struggling with waiting, scoured the Bible for encouragement in the time, cried to my mom because I just wanted to have sex. We were talking about marriage very early in the relationship. We truly believe God brought us together and that we are each other's everything. My parents did not want me to get married so fast and at this young of an age. They were my ropes, holding me back from what I wanted. (They say they weren't but there's no way I could have married him with no support from my family.) I thought about it several nights and wondered how much more dedicated I could truly get to him. What difference does a title, piece of paper, a deficit of $5000, and a honeymoon make? Was the wedding just for looks? I committed our relationship to God before I even said that I would date him. We talked for about a week before getting together and I said "What are we doing?" He said "seeing if we would work to date?" I said "That's stupid. Why don't we date to marry?" I had one intention getting into a relationship. If I was going to date someone, I was going to marry them. And he was the same way. In the middle of June, I found out he had been looking at it. Two nights ago I found out he tried to again once after that but his conscience stopped him. He is trying not to look. He is being proactive. It just hurts me that he still WANTS to look at other women when I give him all of me.
Second:
I am fully listening to what everyone is saying. It's not easy being told from 20 different people that I should run away, abandon this relationship that I have built, or be sad. I am going to look for a counselor. We talked last night. We agreed to pray together more, read the word together more, and seek a pastor/counselor who will actually meet with us as a priority. And in my defense, please stop calling my relationship a "trainwreck". It is honestly not. I am dealing with a small amount of hurt that is overruled by all the joy I have with this man. It's not trainwrecked because we are having a struggle, goodness. We are both working on this issue. We are trying to resolve it. And please realize, I do feel cheated on. I see porn the same as a strip club the same as cheating. So yes, my answer would be the same if he cheated on me because to me, he already has. I'm not trying to be a pick and choose girl. I love my Lord, but I am human. Why is it so different for a Christian to have premarital sex just because they believe its wrong? Doesn't mean its any easier.
Shout outs:
HandK - Phil 4:6-7 is a favorite of mine: I reflect on it frequently. And I agree whole-heartedly with your pre-martial sex advice. It is hard though. I'm scared if we stop; he will go to porn.
Tarpon - We are VERY much self-sufficient. Maybe most adults ready for marriage don't live with their parents, but many WISE adults ready for marriage take advantage of the blessings offered. I don't want to move in with him (I knowwwww I'm a conundrum. PLEASE don't make that a big deal too) until after we are married so there is something special left and to take on a house payment and rent is absolutely stupid. We are very financially self-sufficient. More so than you'd like to think, I'm sure. Like I stated oreviously, there is no disconnect in the bedroom. We are very consistently very intimate. I'm sorry that it somehow became construed in such a way. I was in school full-time at the time I moved. I am taking a break to save some money and will be returning in the spring of next year. Right now, I'm working at a real estate office full-time. I'm not using a cop-out excuse to not receive counseling. I never said I was against it. We are very much for it. We wanted to seek it out before we got engaged and did, and have been waiting for the pastor. They have not gotten back and we have let it slip our minds. Just like I have no idea what kind of views you hold, you have no idea what kind of church I came from. What are your views anyway? You are kind of mouthy, aren't you? I up and left my family after a year and a half of being away from my love. I don't understand how it's wrong to live my life outside of my families' life? I don't want to tell my parents, honestly. They are dealing with enough stress (due to my sister's situation) and my dad is already wanting to kill someone. I'm not giving up just yet. I do see hope. But no, I don't see looking at porn anywhere is okay.
and it is hard because I do love him so much. I glanced at that website you mentioned and am going to use it for sure and I will send it to my sister who is getting a divorce due to adultery. Thank you.
FormerlyAK - No, it kills me to think about him getting off to a pic of a naked lady. It kills me think of him cheating. I don't see any difference between looking at a pic and getting off and him physically cheating. He is receiving gratification from someone other than ME. It tears me apart.
Kate - It was a non-denominational, Assembly of God church that I grew up in in TN.
Kellbell - I understand he will think others are attractive. I wish it were not so, though. I, in my little princess dream world, want to be the center of his attention. Not fighting for it the rest of my life. Who said I emotionally hurt and embarassed my FI? Where did I make it sound like I embarass him? If he watches porn, how do you know he is thinking of you when he is having sex with you? He gets off to those girls. He wants them. How do you know he is not just using your for what he wishes he could do to those girls?
Chelsea - Thank you. We are definitely working on it together. He is not a bum. He wants a relationship and will work at it. I gave him my virginity because he is the guy I want to marry. Not on conditional terms (If you are perfect I will.) but for who he is, and(although I know you guys will disagree) the strength and solidity he possesses.
Jadeorchid - Thank you! It is so encouraging and refreshing to hear someone call me that. I am so rundown. It really bothers me why he can't explain it, too. How can you not? You words are sweet as a honeycomb and healing to the soul. I will let you know how we grow. How do I ask him if he knows my worth? He really is good to me, jsyk.
Blahkm - You are completely right.
Kelly5110 - I know I need to stop. But I dont want him to look elsewhere
Ashleylane - Maybe I do need to re-prioritize. I feel like I am leaning on God so much to get me through, but maybe I'm not actually listening to Him as a leader. Ahh you convicted me so much! It's a hard thing to hear but its whats needed.
Where in the HECK did you get the idea that he has already called it quits? And there is major distance between us? And there's a disconnect? And it's bad news bears because I can't stay over? That is one of the ways he is trying to lead (no he is not perfect but dang, why do you expect him to be?) by saying, "not yet. two months." Our relationship isn't over because I have a guy fighting for it, a strong spiritual force behind us (his parents), and a God who heals. Also, I personally believe my SO should be my spiritual leader and we SHOULD pray together. That is what many marriages fail to do and unfortunately, that is one of the biggest blessings to me.
And you realize how insulting it is to call me "screwed up?" I mean REALLY. Have some tact. I refuse to accept that in any form. I have different views from you, and thereofre I am screwed up. I considered myself married to him BEFORE we had sex. We went through a lot before giving each other to the other and I had committed myself to him (because I wanted him, not because I was this poor pathetic screw up that was scared of loneliness. Quite the contrary, I am very self-relient. I can take care of myself just fine and have been doing it as soon as I could. Leaving him will be much more than "an egg in my face." Do you not realize how emotionally attached to him I am??
The facts on pre-marital counseling:
Since everyone is hounding me and making their own assumptions. Back in December (before we were engaged in April) we decided to go through pre-marital counseling. The pastors at the church we attend in Wyoming are so incredibly busy they have only responded once to us. We let it slip our minds (unfortunately) when things got busy with school, finals, closing on a house, planning a wedding, starting a full time job, fixing the house, etc. I talked with him last night and we are going to seek out a new pastor/counselor. We can't go to the pastor at my home church because it is in Tennessee. We are also getting married in TN so the officiant can't counsel us either. We have total support for this marriage. I am not withholding any information, especially regarding the counseling from you guys.
And what on earth are your religious views? You sure have me curious, Ms. Mysterious!
The OP is all screwed up. There's a bunch of problems --- she thinks she's already married to this guy, there's the virginity issue, her religion isn't the right one for her -- huh? what do you mean "my FI is my spiritual leader"??? Your SO or FI or spouse should not, as I said, even be a prayer partner -- there's some kind of weird cult fundy thing here in the mix and she is pursuing a relationship that is already over. My husband and I pray together all the time. We rely on each other and we talk to our Father together. What is wrong with that? I agree that she has a lot of problems, but there is nothing wrong with your HUSBAND being your prayer partner.
I will just say, that is kind of the point. I know you feel as though a few posters have attacked you, but I think there are plenty of PPs who are genuinely looking out for you and trying to give you sound advice. Emotional attachment does not necessarily a good marriage make.
OP, are you marrying your FI because he is the best possible man for you? Because he respects and supports you and helps you to be the best possible version of yourself? Does he encourage you to grow stronger as a Christian (as it is clear that is very important for you to have from your future H)?
Or are you with him out of guilt from losing your virginity? From deep-set emotional attachment and a feeling that you would be lost without him?
If you feel that you cannot risk postponing your pending nuptials in order to take the necessary precautions for yourself and your future marriage, that IS a serious issue. You love him deeply, it is clear, but is he RIGHT for you? Not does he make your heart flutter and do you envision a perfect life with him, or even is he a great man on his own. At this point in time, it does not seem that you two are bringing out the best in each other (once again, going off of what you have stated you BOTH want out of marriage) and you should really explore that. If you two are really right for each other, taking the time to be 100% sure of that by each of your growing up on your own a bit more before you get married, will not ruin that. Do not shy away from taking your emotions out of the situation and being objective about things simply because you fear the outcome. Want the BEST for yourself, OP.
"I am fully listening to what everyone is saying. It's not easy being told from 20 different people that I should run away, abandon this relationship that I have built, or be sad. I am going to look for a counselor. We talked last night. We agreed to pray together more, read the word together more, and seek a pastor/counselor who will actually meet with us as a priority. And in my defense, please stop calling my relationship a "trainwreck". It is honestly not. I am dealing with a small amount of hurt that is overruled by all the joy I have with this man. It's not trainwrecked because we are having a struggle, goodness. We are both working on this issue. We are trying to resolve it. And please realize, I do feel cheated on. I see porn the same as a strip club the same as cheating. So yes, my answer would be the same if he cheated on me because to me, he already has. I'm not trying to be a pick and choose girl. I love my Lord, but I am human. Why is it so different for a Christian to have premarital sex just because they believe its wrong? Doesn't mean its any easier. "
"We are very consistently very intimate. I'm sorry that it somehow became construed in such a way. "
These two statements conflict. If you want to make your relationship with God better and you want to make your relationship with FI God-centered, this premarital sex HAS TO STOP. If you refuse to get rid of nonrepented sin, then you are not going to have a good relationship with God no matter how much you pray together and read the Bible together.
And what on earth are your religious views? You sure have me curious, Ms. Mysterious!
Why is it important? And why is it an issue to you? Because it really doesn't matter. Common sense is where it's at. And you aren't using any at all.
You don't like it that he's viewing porn but you are marrying him anyway. Like I said, use your common sense.
I'm really sorry that you're having to deal with this. I know it's hard. You know you're already to the right thing by praying about it and that's definitely a great first step.
You definitely need to have a heart to heart with him. Find out why he has been looking at porn. (I know this is so much easier than said) You may need to have your pastor or an older couple that you trust around in order to get to the bottom of things.
I know that you love him but it's not fair to you for him to continue with this habit. I hate to suggest a ultimatum but it may come down to that. If it has become an addiction, he needs to get good Godly counseling. He's not the first Christian man to deal with this and he certainly won't be the lest. If he refuses to give this up or get counseling then you need to decide if this is something that you can live with for the rest of your life. You do deserve better and we both know that this is something that can ruin a marriage.
I will certainly keep you both in my prayers. God can do amazing things with someone's heart.
If you want to talk more, please feel free to email me soukup.kayla@gmail.com.
THEN DON'T MARRY HIM!
What those of us with sense have been continually telling the OP.
Yeah, I'm going to have to echo Kate here. Tarpon, I'm totally with you on the OP not marrying this guy, but you are really off-base here and obviously do not have any understanding of the importance many people (not just "weird cult fund[ies]") place on prayer in a relationship.
Despite what others have said, there are those here willing to give you Godly advice.
First of all, what some of the other posters say is true...it is Biblically sound for you to leave someone if he is cheating on you. If you both agree that looking at pornography is cheating, then you need to decide if that is something that you can forgive and work on, or else break the engagement and seek someone else.
If your fiancee is feeling guilty about looking at pornography, that is good. It means that the holy spirit is working on him, letting him know that what he's doing is sinful. It also means that he cares about how you feel and doesn't want to hurt you by continuing to look at pornography.
For most people, porn is addictive. Oftentimes it's not as simple as saying "I shouldn't look at this" and then stopping cold turkey. Your fiancee needs help. I know it's difficult to support him when you know he wants to look at porn because that knowlege hurts you, but it is important that you be supportive if he is making a conscious effort to stop the behavior.
I certainly encourage you to continue praying about this. I know that others will scoff and not understand, but there is serious power in prayer. I would also suggest that you bring up the option of seeking couples therapy, preferably with a pastor. If you can't find a pastor to counsel you, or he is unwilling to see one, try to find a couples/sex therapist that is open to faith-based relationships and problems. Otherwise you'll get a lot of people pushing their own values and beliefs about sex onto you instead of validating and respecting yours.
Pornography can seriously damage a relationship, despite what others may say. Most people here would argue that watching pornography is perfectly fine and a healthy part of a person's sex life, but that is not true if it is hurting your sexual relationship. Because he is denying you sex in favor of watching porn, he clearly has a problem. If any other poster here was no longer getting sexual attention because their partner was addicted to porn, I'm sure their tune would change.
I hope that I have been helpful to you. I would say getting him into counseling would be your best option for a successful outcome. If he refuses...it may be time to end the relationship and find someone else.
I agree. I'm not sure how I came across, but I was also trying to help her. I'm actually a devout Catholic, but I sensed from her posts that ultimately the bigger issue here had little to do with religion, with porn, or with premarital sex (otherwise, I would have definitely responded differently). I truly believe that both of them are not ready for marriage...period. They both need time to mature...persoanlly and spiritually. I think then things will become much clearer.
Praying with a spouse or SO or your family is fine.
But a prayer partner in itself should not be a family member or even somebody you are friends with --- isn't the idea of it to pray and more or less stay objective and stay centered?
Secondly, I would like to suggest that you and your FI buy and read the book Pure Eyes. This helped me and my husband a great deal. I found out seven months ago that my husband had been regularly viewing porn for our entire relationship (5 years). He had tried many times to stop, but couldn't overcome it. In a way, he was addicted. This included lying, hiding the money he spent on it, phone sex, and covering his tracks in many ways. A month later, he confessed there was one more lie he had to come clean about. His porn addiction had led to his actually hiring a dominatrix to give him oral.
I do not believe in divorce, but I almost left him. The lies and cheating with the porn and physically were too much. I didn't even know if I still loved him. It is truly by the grace of God that I stayed. Most people would tell me to leave. But how could I not forgive him, when God has forgiven me? If I am to follow Christ's example, I had to forgive him. It was one of the worst and most painful experiences of my life.
I'll not bore you with more messy details or how hard we've worked to move past this. I am finally feeling like my marriage is turning around for the better, but it's been a terrible road, and there is still more to go. I say all this to say, solve this BEFORE the wedding. Don't get married until you've eliminated the sin. Trust me. I would have postponed our wedding had I known. I wish you the best, and feel free to PM me if you need someone to talk about this with. I would have loved to talk to someone when it was the worst, but I was too ashamed to tell anyone.
A 12 step program is necessary -- either that, or an addiction counselor.
Porn addiction is the same as a substance, shopping or gambling addiction. (and at that point, I'd have said to him, "Either you get help for your problem and get clean --- or I hit the road." It's also a dealbreaker.
No counselor and/or 12 step program? Then this guy's in a "dry drunk" state - he isn't drinking but what this means is that he is NOT in recovery with the help of a program or counselor.
I'm not sure what you want. Honestly it sounds a little like your demanding something from him he may not be able to give you. You say it's cheating and you would take him back, even if he had cheated on you physically. I understand how you feel about the issue but at the same time you may be a little...well demanding. From what I understand as well he has looked at porn a couple of times(that you know of) he hasn't run up huge bills just to check out some girls have sex and it doesn't seem to affect your sex life...
This is my advice since leaving him is out of the question. You can go two ways on the situation. You can accept that it has happened and move on and also accept that at some point in your marriage he may or will look at porn again and that he'll have the urge to look at it or you can sit here and linger on it and fight about it the rest of your lives together and fight about it any time he looks at it. You have to learn how to trust him again and become more secure in your body. Otherwise you'll live your life completly miserable thinking about this over and over again...