Probably flammable, but I want to ask anyways

+adamwife+

NuggetBrain:

Listen, if you don't understand that people oftentimes either are intentionally trying to be offensive, or just don't care, then I doubt you grasp the basic concept of humanity.  Seriously.  You seem to think that if they only understood, they'd just stop!  No.  That's not true.  I can completely understand, and just not give a single f*ck about it.

Right.  But I believe that true understanding means realizing that your not caring about the implications of your words and actions means you truly don't understand.

I realize that some people are going to be offensive and rude.  I'm not stupid.  I'm just saying that those offensive and rude people can say they understand all they want and I don't truly believe it.  I think that their rude and offensive nature blocks them from truly understanding.

eclaires

True Fact: I read this post and thought to myself, "JFC." Irish Catholic, out.

NuggetBrain

mxolisi:

People post things that offend me all the time. Should I share a laundry list so everyone can avoid them? Or does my offense not matter because it isn't rooted in religious belief? I'm not being sarcastic here. I am legitimately offended by some pretty common nestisms and internetisms. 

Like what?

malibu5880

People get way too offended about way too much. That's all I got. Pretty soon we'll all be reduced to grunting and pointing at things, because somewhere, someone will be offended by the use of any and all words ever known to man, and we wouldn't want to offend anyone, right? I do think the N-word, racial slurs, and the derogatory use of the word "gay" can be offensive, but as others have pointed out, they're used maliciously. Do I use those terms? No. Do I have a heart attack if someone else does? No.

(This is coming from a Christian who swears, says OMG, and isn't the least bit offended by anyone else who does, and is rarely offended by too much out there in the world.) I hate political correctness, and I get sick of catering to everyone else being so easily offended by everything.

I'm also crabby today and stuck at work.

NuggetBrain

+adamwife+:

NuggetBrain:

Listen, if you don't understand that people oftentimes either are intentionally trying to be offensive, or just don't care, then I doubt you grasp the basic concept of humanity.  Seriously.  You seem to think that if they only understood, they'd just stop!  No.  That's not true.  I can completely understand, and just not give a single f*ck about it.

Right.  But I believe that true understanding means realizing that your not caring about the implications of your words and actions means you truly don't understand.

I realize that some people are going to be offensive and rude.  I'm not stupid.  I'm just saying that those offensive and rude people can say they understand all they want and I don't truly believe it.  I think that their rude and offensive nature blocks them from truly understanding.

And this is the problem I'm having with you.  We've now gone to "I can read your minds and decide if you really understand based on if you use a word or not."  Seriously, AW.  I completely and totally understand why people find words offensive. I would never say JC or OMG in front of my dad or stepmom because they would be offended or upset.  But I will use it around Noodle because he doesn't find it offensive, and to be honest neither do I. 

I can understand and respect other people's beliefs without having to incorporate them into every single damn day of my life.

DottyBlue

Knitty:

Retarded and gay are slurs against real people who have no choice other than to be who they are.

Jesusfuckingchrist is just an expression. If you want to go there, it's an expression using the name of a mythical creature, who supposedly ordered you not to use its name on pain of eternal torment - which, if you actually thought the order was true, would be an excellent reason to defy it.

I don't use religious swear words because the power of a swear word comes from it being a trangressive, shocking word. And unless you buy into ancient mythology as truth, then saying goddammit has as much power as saying potato.

 

Longtime lurker jumping in here (I don't normally post because I can't keep up with the pace of this board while at work).

I think what is being missed, in part, here is the perspective that faith sometimes becomes such a part of a Christian that there is no choice but to believe and to BE a Christian.  Yes, there is faith, and it is ultimately a choice.  I could turn my back on Christianity today and never go back, but it goes against every ounce of who I am.

Saying "JFC" is not just an expression.  It is offensive to who I am.  I don't lash out at people who use the expression because I know that it doesn't mean the same to them, but that doesn't stop it from being offensive.

If someone were to say "John F'ing Doe" where John Doe was my husband (and they without a doubt meant my husband), I would absolutely bust out with an "excuse me?!"  Very similar to my core reaction to "JFC". 

Just a few thoughts.  I am not trying to censor the board, or martyring myself, but this discussion is fascinating.

MarynJoe

LittleMoxie:

My personal opinion on this is because someone can always be offended by something.  So people cut out what is most offensive to most people (retarded, gay, n-, etc), but aren't going to go around with an ever-expanding list every time one person has a problem with a word.  I won't cater to the overly-sensitive.

You are in a tiny minority and have given no good reason for it. People don't agree with what taking god's name in vain is, whether it matters coming from a non-believer, etc.  On the other hand, many people like getting to use a good, offensive swear out.  In fact, that's the point.

So they will continue.  If there was a huge groundswell from people giving reasons as to why this is so offensive, then perhaps you are right and people will eventually stop. 

Part of the issue too, is that I think it's much easier to see the historical context between the other words being offensive.  I am none of those things, but can see the problem behind them and the hateful way in which they have been used.  Because I don't want to be associated with that prejudicie or someone who is hateful, I won't use those terms.  However, even people that are Christian don't agree on the offensiveness of my swearing JFC!  So I'm not being associated by society as a hateful, ignorant person by using it.  Until that is the case, that is why I will refrain from one and not the other.

No one person gets to be the "that's offensive" police. 

Tiny minority?  The percentage of Americans who self-identify as Christian is approximately between 75-83%.  Roughly 45% self-identify as born-again Christian.

NuggetBrain

DottyBlue:

Knitty:

Retarded and gay are slurs against real people who have no choice other than to be who they are.

Jesusfuckingchrist is just an expression. If you want to go there, it's an expression using the name of a mythical creature, who supposedly ordered you not to use its name on pain of eternal torment - which, if you actually thought the order was true, would be an excellent reason to defy it.

I don't use religious swear words because the power of a swear word comes from it being a trangressive, shocking word. And unless you buy into ancient mythology as truth, then saying goddammit has as much power as saying potato.

 

Longtime lurker jumping in here (I don't normally post because I can't keep up with the pace of this board while at work).

I think what is being missed, in part, here is the perspective that faith sometimes becomes such a part of a Christian that there is no choice but to believe and to BE a Christian.  Yes, there is faith, and it is ultimately a choice.  I could turn my back on Christianity today and never go back, but it goes against every ounce of who I am.

Saying "JFC" is not just an expression.  It is offensive to who I am.  I don't lash out at people who use the expression because I know that it doesn't mean the same to them, but that doesn't stop it from being offensive.

If someone were to say "John F'ing Doe" where John Doe was my husband (and they without a doubt meant my husband), I would absolutely bust out with an "excuse me?!"  Very similar to my core reaction to "JFC". 

Just a few thoughts.  I am not trying to censor the board, or martyring myself, but this discussion is fascinating.

But that's fine.  You have every right under the sun to find something offensive.  I don't think anybody is arguing that.

SunMoon&Stars

NuggetBrain:

Mare0527:

 

bunnybean:

I didn't say martyr, Tef, did I?

I said persecution, which I know she said she didn't feel. She said she feels offended. I can't tell her how to feel. But she also can't tell us how to behave. That's kind of the end, really.

 

I cringe every time I see some of you post the name of my Savior in vain on here.  I find it incredibly offensive and it almost hurts a little to read it.  I know, I'm probably crossing into overly sensitive, get over it territory, but whatever.

I'm curious - do some of you realize how offensive it is to say when you say it or is it just out of habit that it comes out?  Does knowing that it is offensive make you think twice about using it in the future?

I'm curious where exactly there she is telling someone how they should behave?

Everyone is touting that this is a public message board so they can post whatever they want.... well she can start a thread over whatever she wants.  She made a statment and explained how she feels something and asked for other's input on what she said and instead everyone started attacking her for trying to "ban others' free speech" which I don't see her saying at all.  But whatevs.

So what, exactly, do you think the purpose of this thread was then?  Just to find out how many people found it offensive?  She could have asked that without the "it makes me cringe" and "it hurts my heart" and "it offends me".  She even said that she wanted people to respect her enough not to use it around her.  So yeah, in a passive-aggressive way she was trying to ask people to stop using it.  You don't need a damn microscope to read between those big-ass lines.

The bolded is pretty much hitting the nail on the head. adamwife, if it hurts you so much, you do have an option. Just sayin'

NuggetBrain

MarynJoe:

LittleMoxie:

My personal opinion on this is because someone can always be offended by something.  So people cut out what is most offensive to most people (retarded, gay, n-, etc), but aren't going to go around with an ever-expanding list every time one person has a problem with a word.  I won't cater to the overly-sensitive.

You are in a tiny minority and have given no good reason for it. People don't agree with what taking god's name in vain is, whether it matters coming from a non-believer, etc.  On the other hand, many people like getting to use a good, offensive swear out.  In fact, that's the point.

So they will continue.  If there was a huge groundswell from people giving reasons as to why this is so offensive, then perhaps you are right and people will eventually stop. 

Part of the issue too, is that I think it's much easier to see the historical context between the other words being offensive.  I am none of those things, but can see the problem behind them and the hateful way in which they have been used.  Because I don't want to be associated with that prejudicie or someone who is hateful, I won't use those terms.  However, even people that are Christian don't agree on the offensiveness of my swearing JFC!  So I'm not being associated by society as a hateful, ignorant person by using it.  Until that is the case, that is why I will refrain from one and not the other.

No one person gets to be the "that's offensive" police. 

Tiny minority?  The percentage of Americans who self-identify as Christian is approximately between 75-83%.  Roughly 45% self-identify as born-again Christian.

And I know LOTS of Christians who say OMG and JC.  So...there's that. 

LucyHoneychrrch

NuggetBrain:

+adamwife+:

NuggetBrain:

Listen, if you don't understand that people oftentimes either are intentionally trying to be offensive, or just don't care, then I doubt you grasp the basic concept of humanity.  Seriously.  You seem to think that if they only understood, they'd just stop!  No.  That's not true.  I can completely understand, and just not give a single f*ck about it.

Right.  But I believe that true understanding means realizing that your not caring about the implications of your words and actions means you truly don't understand.

I realize that some people are going to be offensive and rude.  I'm not stupid.  I'm just saying that those offensive and rude people can say they understand all they want and I don't truly believe it.  I think that their rude and offensive nature blocks them from truly understanding.

And this is the problem I'm having with you.  We've now gone to "I can read your minds and decide if you really understand based on if you use a word or not."  Seriously, AW.  I completely and totally understand why people find words offensive. I would never say JC or OMG in front of my dad or stepmom because they would be offended or upset.  But I will use it around Noodle because he doesn't find it offensive, and to be honest neither do I. 

I can understand and respect other people's beliefs without having to incorporate them into every single damn day of my life.

This is about where I am.  The condescension involved in "you just don't truly understand, because you're so rude and offensive," coupled with "Unless you take Jesus as your Savior you just don't know" is killing me.

 

mxolisi

NuggetBrain:

mxolisi:

People post things that offend me all the time. Should I share a laundry list so everyone can avoid them? Or does my offense not matter because it isn't rooted in religious belief? I'm not being sarcastic here. I am legitimately offended by some pretty common nestisms and internetisms. 

Like what?

This is probably not the best example, but I'm in a hurry! I think the common usage of the phrase "first world problems" or FWP is pretty offensive and ignorant. But I also get that most people don't see if that way. So while I would never use it--and while I do believe it is offensive--I don't care if other people do because I understand that not everyone has the same mindset as I do and also that the intent isn't to offend. It's just a phrase.

LittleMoxie

MarynJoe:

LittleMoxie:

My personal opinion on this is because someone can always be offended by something.  So people cut out what is most offensive to most people (retarded, gay, n-, etc), but aren't going to go around with an ever-expanding list every time one person has a problem with a word.  I won't cater to the overly-sensitive.

You are in a tiny minority and have given no good reason for it. People don't agree with what taking god's name in vain is, whether it matters coming from a non-believer, etc.  On the other hand, many people like getting to use a good, offensive swear out.  In fact, that's the point.

So they will continue.  If there was a huge groundswell from people giving reasons as to why this is so offensive, then perhaps you are right and people will eventually stop. 

Part of the issue too, is that I think it's much easier to see the historical context between the other words being offensive.  I am none of those things, but can see the problem behind them and the hateful way in which they have been used.  Because I don't want to be associated with that prejudicie or someone who is hateful, I won't use those terms.  However, even people that are Christian don't agree on the offensiveness of my swearing JFC!  So I'm not being associated by society as a hateful, ignorant person by using it.  Until that is the case, that is why I will refrain from one and not the other.

No one person gets to be the "that's offensive" police. 

Tiny minority?  The percentage of Americans who self-identify as Christian is approximately between 75-83%.  Roughly 45% self-identify as born-again Christian.

Not all Christians are offended by it.

MarynJoe

bunnybean:

MarynJoe:

bunnybean:

AW, there are certain polite discourse things you can expect. You can expect us not to belittle your beliefs or say you're crazy. You can expect us to ask you politely about things. Sometimes people don't do this to you. It is very rude, and I find it unacceptable.

When I say Jesus Effing Christ, I am not thinking about your beliefs, Jesus, or even theoretical historical Jesus. I am trying to find a phrase to punch out what I want to say. 

If I said you are a mothereffing Christian idiot, then I am being totally offensive and intending to hurt you. That is mean. That is something I wouldn't do to you. That is something I don't think.

While it isn't always across the board, intent is important. My intent when saying JFC isn't to hurt you or cause you faith anguish. It's just to curse because I like to curse. 

A woman at work said that to me.  Seriously.

Out of the blue, or because of something you said/did?

 

Typical lunchroom discussion.  It often gets into politics, religion, gay issues, economy, etc.  We all usually talk freely and respect each other, but this woman is a totalbitch.  My comment was about my faith and how it affects my beliefs, and she comment that I was a "Christian idiot" who does whatever I'm told and doesn't think for myself.  Hmm... this after I expressed my support for gay marriage.

MommaG123

NuggetBrain:

And I know LOTS of Christians who say OMG and JC.  So...there's that. 

And I know AA who use the n word.  Does that make it okay? 

mlwooten

mxolisi:

NuggetBrain:

mxolisi:

People post things that offend me all the time. Should I share a laundry list so everyone can avoid them? Or does my offense not matter because it isn't rooted in religious belief? I'm not being sarcastic here. I am legitimately offended by some pretty common nestisms and internetisms. 

Like what?

This is probably not the best example, but I'm in a hurry! I think the common usage of the phrase "first world problems" or FWP is pretty offensive and ignorant. But I also get that most people don't see if that way. So while I would never use it--and while I do believe it is offensive--I don't care if other people do because I understand that not everyone has the same mindset as I do and also that the intent isn't to offend. It's just a phrase.

huh. I use this but never thought of it as offensive.  

MarynJoe

malibu5880:

People get way too offended about way too much. That's all I got. Pretty soon we'll all be reduced to grunting and pointing at things, because somewhere, someone will be offended by the use of any and all words ever known to man, and we wouldn't want to offend anyone, right? I do think the N-word, racial slurs, and the derogatory use of the word "gay" can be offensive, but as others have pointed out, they're used maliciously. Do I use those terms? No. Do I have a heart attack if someone else does? No.

(This is coming from a Christian who swears, says OMG, and isn't the least bit offended by anyone else who does, and is rarely offended by too much out there in the world.) I hate political correctness, and I get sick of catering to everyone else being so easily offended by everything.

I'm also crabby today and stuck at work.

Ha!  That first one made me laugh out loud.

I swear as well, I just don't take the Lord's name in vain.   I also detest political correctness, but I do think we should at least be aware of others' point of view and try to be respectful. 

 

Dylanite

Honest question that will sound, and may even be, naive: Why does it hurt to be offended?  I want that feeling of hurt described, explained.

MarynJoe

LittleMoxie:

MarynJoe:

LittleMoxie:

My personal opinion on this is because someone can always be offended by something.  So people cut out what is most offensive to most people (retarded, gay, n-, etc), but aren't going to go around with an ever-expanding list every time one person has a problem with a word.  I won't cater to the overly-sensitive.

You are in a tiny minority and have given no good reason for it. People don't agree with what taking god's name in vain is, whether it matters coming from a non-believer, etc.  On the other hand, many people like getting to use a good, offensive swear out.  In fact, that's the point.

So they will continue.  If there was a huge groundswell from people giving reasons as to why this is so offensive, then perhaps you are right and people will eventually stop. 

Part of the issue too, is that I think it's much easier to see the historical context between the other words being offensive.  I am none of those things, but can see the problem behind them and the hateful way in which they have been used.  Because I don't want to be associated with that prejudicie or someone who is hateful, I won't use those terms.  However, even people that are Christian don't agree on the offensiveness of my swearing JFC!  So I'm not being associated by society as a hateful, ignorant person by using it.  Until that is the case, that is why I will refrain from one and not the other.

No one person gets to be the "that's offensive" police. 

Tiny minority?  The percentage of Americans who self-identify as Christian is approximately between 75-83%.  Roughly 45% self-identify as born-again Christian.

Not all Christians are offended by it.

I never said they were.

NuggetBrain

mxolisi:

NuggetBrain:

mxolisi:

People post things that offend me all the time. Should I share a laundry list so everyone can avoid them? Or does my offense not matter because it isn't rooted in religious belief? I'm not being sarcastic here. I am legitimately offended by some pretty common nestisms and internetisms. 

Like what?

This is probably not the best example, but I'm in a hurry! I think the common usage of the phrase "first world problems" or FWP is pretty offensive and ignorant. But I also get that most people don't see if that way. So while I would never use it--and while I do believe it is offensive--I don't care if other people do because I understand that not everyone has the same mindset as I do and also that the intent isn't to offend. It's just a phrase.

Really??  Because now I'm nosy and want to know why you find that offensive.  I'm assuming because it's somehow invalidating the problems?  Like "well there are starving children in Africa"?

SunMoon&Stars

LittleMoxie:

Religion tends to get special treatment in most spheres though.  One of the things that pisses me off as an atheist.

This, too.

TefLepOM

Dylanite:

Honest question that will sound, and may even be, naive: Why does it hurt to be offended?  I want that feeling of hurt described, explained.

to me, it comes down to doing the offensive thing intentionally.  As in, I want to hurt you so I will make x joke or say y word.  Someone doing something on purpose in this manner is hurtful.  Hopefully that makes sense.

NuggetBrain

Mare0527:

NuggetBrain:

And I know LOTS of Christians who say OMG and JC.  So...there's that. 

And I know AA who use the n word.  Does that make it okay? 

Uh, I never said anything about it being "okay".  I said that implying that because there are lots of Christians, that somehow they all find OMG and JC offensive just because they're Christians is probably wrong.  You just proved my point for me, in fact.  So thanks, I guess.

rayskit10

SunMoon&Stars:

LittleMoxie:

Religion tends to get special treatment in most spheres though.  One of the things that pisses me off as an atheist.

This, too.

Agreed, as I sit home with my little Atheist children who can't go to school today because we are being forced to celebrate a Christian holiday. 

Dylanite

TefLepOM:

Dylanite:

Honest question that will sound, and may even be, naive: Why does it hurt to be offended?  I want that feeling of hurt described, explained.

to me, it comes down to doing the offensive thing intentionally.  As in, I want to hurt you so I will make x joke or say y word.  Someone doing something on purpose in this manner is hurtful.  Hopefully that makes sense.

But as has been made clear in this thread, people can be offended even if the offender's intent wasn't to... offend.  And yet they're still hurt.  So I'm trying to understand this hurt, regardless of the offender. I'm questioning the feeling behind the person offended.

broccolitree

Most of the stuff in the Pauline epistles I take with a sortof grain of salt, since it's pretty obvious that he's writing to each specific audience.  For instance, in one of them (bear with me, again) he says that there is no circumstancewhere divorce is permissible, but in another he says adultery is a valid reason for divorcce (i want to say Ephesians?).  Reason being that the second place he was writing to still had a rash of paganism which required women to serve has temple prostitutes, so if they did that sh*t it was preferable to divorce rather than stone them or whatever.  and beyond the epistles, iirc the only other ref to evangelism is the angels (aka divine introspection) who brought the good news. It's been a while, though.

NuggetBrain

MarynJoe:

LittleMoxie:

MarynJoe:

LittleMoxie:

My personal opinion on this is because someone can always be offended by something.  So people cut out what is most offensive to most people (retarded, gay, n-, etc), but aren't going to go around with an ever-expanding list every time one person has a problem with a word.  I won't cater to the overly-sensitive.

You are in a tiny minority and have given no good reason for it. People don't agree with what taking god's name in vain is, whether it matters coming from a non-believer, etc.  On the other hand, many people like getting to use a good, offensive swear out.  In fact, that's the point.

So they will continue.  If there was a huge groundswell from people giving reasons as to why this is so offensive, then perhaps you are right and people will eventually stop. 

Part of the issue too, is that I think it's much easier to see the historical context between the other words being offensive.  I am none of those things, but can see the problem behind them and the hateful way in which they have been used.  Because I don't want to be associated with that prejudicie or someone who is hateful, I won't use those terms.  However, even people that are Christian don't agree on the offensiveness of my swearing JFC!  So I'm not being associated by society as a hateful, ignorant person by using it.  Until that is the case, that is why I will refrain from one and not the other.

No one person gets to be the "that's offensive" police. 

Tiny minority?  The percentage of Americans who self-identify as Christian is approximately between 75-83%.  Roughly 45% self-identify as born-again Christian.

Not all Christians are offended by it.

I never said they were.

Okay, so then why bring up the numbers?  Nobody said she was in a tiny majority of Christians, just that she was in a tiny majority of Christians who found it that offensive when OMG and JC is used.  Perfect example - the Irish Catholics.

LucyHoneychrrch

TefLepOM:

Dylanite:

Honest question that will sound, and may even be, naive: Why does it hurt to be offended?  I want that feeling of hurt described, explained.

to me, it comes down to doing the offensive thing intentionally.  As in, I want to hurt you so I will make x joke or say y word.  Someone doing something on purpose in this manner is hurtful.  Hopefully that makes sense.

Is someone using the Lord's name on a public message board intentionally using the word to be hurtful and deliberately offensive?  I highly doubt it.

 

epphd

I try to be sensitive, use lower case "g" so as not to offend those who believe in big "G" god; use Jebus instead of Jesus; JMJ for Jesus, Mary and Joseph, etc.  Frankly, I don't believe in Jesus as the savior so it's not as loaded for me. I appreciate that it is for some and I will continue to try to be sensitive, but probably won't censor myself.  I think there is a difference and it's reflected in the compromise I'm willing to make.

 

 

TefLepOM

SunMoon&Stars:

LittleMoxie:

Religion tends to get special treatment in most spheres though.  One of the things that pisses me off as an atheist.

This, too.

as evidenced by this thread.